setting tool

[Binraker]

I was watching some of Soham Harrison's videos and I saw he had a very nice tool for doing tube mounting of stones at the end of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJiP-5Pl6Ko) video. It is a little set of polished cups that you just whiz around the top of the mount to burnish it over. Has anyone seen these for sale anywhere? I couldn't find one on the cooksons website, (or any web site for that matter, but i may not have the right search term). I have often thought about making something of that sort but if I can but one off the shelf, all the better.

[Aurarius]

These (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bezel-setting-18-punch-set-/370948088053)look to be the tools in question. Cousins also sell them. Whether you want to buy from them is another matter.

[Patstone]

I have one like that, dont use it very much though. My opinion for what its worth is that you have to have a very steady hand and make sure that the punch is the right size. In theory it sounds good, but its quite difficult to keep the tool over the stone because the stone doesnt stick up much, so you end up rubbing the stone as well. I have gone back to using a ground down screwdriver instead.

[Nick martin]

Cooksons sell that tool and I've got one which I find incredibly easy to use. Recommended.

Nick

[donnie]

I watched that video and made a set to fit the small bezel mounts that I make. I agree with pat, I was as quick with burnishing tools.

DONNIE



www.silver-n-things
www.facebook.com/silver n things

[ps_bond]

I've got a set; I've never used them for the actual setting - only for layout.

[Dennis]

I think that they were originally meant for claw setting. For bezel setting, you have to press incredibly hard to get the collet to close even a little, unles it is a very small one.

Having bought it, I do now use it regularly to perfect the roundness of my finished settings by rocking and rotating. This deals with the sometimes lumpy look, when your collet ends up not very round. Two cautions though:

1. If you use one which is slightly too large, you end up making nasty score marks in your surrounding metal.

2. They can work for both faceted and cabochon stones, as mine do. However some, which come in boxed sets with lids, are so shallow, that they will not reach the bezel of cabochons at all, only faceted stones which are flatter, so halving their usefulness.

Here is a picture of mine for reference. Not having a lid means it tends to get knocked over an spill out. That's the penalty of having a better set. Dennis.

[mizgeorge]

Can I ask where you found those Dennis? I've been looking for a deeper set that will handle cabs as well for ages - edit - just found them at Euro :)

I use mine all the time. I don't push and rock, I just tap gently with a mallet, which seems to work for me. These are 3mm emeralds in 9ct, and took approximately 10 seconds to set using this technique. I set them rather deeper than usual as I was keeping them for myself and I'd managed to chip a previous pair that had been conventionally set. I find using any sort of pusher more difficult with smaller stones, perhaps because I don't have great sensation in my fingertips.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3703/12278966893_3278f996cc_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mizgeorge/12278966893/)
emerald earrings (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mizgeorge/12278966893/) by mizgeorge (http://www.flickr.com/people/mizgeorge/), on Flickr

[CJ57]

I have a set of them that I bought at auction with 10s of thousands of Czech paste stones. I thought they were for closing the claw settings that came with some of those, hadn't thought they could be used for tube settings. That's good to know, is there not a danger of scratching the stones using one of those, that would be my worry?

Sorry have just seen Dennis's post which makes mine seem irrelevant:( mine are single tools

[caroleallen]

Can I ask where you found those Dennis? I've been looking for a deeper set that will handle cabs as well for ages - edit - just found them at Euro :)

I use mine all the time. I don't push and rock, I just tap gently with a mallet, which seems to work for me. These are 3mm emeralds in 9ct, and took approximately 10 seconds to set using this technique. I set them rather deeper than usual as I was keeping them for myself and I'd managed to chip a previous pair that had been conventionally set. I find using any sort of pusher more difficult with smaller stones, perhaps because I don't have great sensation in my fingertips.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3703/12278966893_3278f996cc_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mizgeorge/12278966893/)
emerald earrings (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mizgeorge/12278966893/) by mizgeorge (http://www.flickr.com/people/mizgeorge/), on Flickr

I like the look of those George. Very neat setting. I think I may have to invest in a set. You lot are keeping me poor!

[Dennis]

Can I ask where you found those Dennis?

I don't actually remember George, I've had them so long. What's more I always resented them, because I have upset them so many times. Then one day I tried to use the ones at college and found them hopeless.

Don't despair, I've just scoured my printed catalogues and found something which looks identical to mine at Sutton Tools: RC009 claw setting tool l2.0-12.0mm.
You would have to have it on sale or return to be certain. Regards, Dennis.

[theresa]

I agree with Mizgeorge, you do have to be careful, easy to chip stones if not deep enough.
I bought mine off Ebay. The one Soham is using looks way better quality.

[caroleallen]

The Euro set and the Suttons set look virtually the same but there's a big difference in price. Is there any difference?

[Binraker]

Thanks for the pointers everyone. For some reason (probably tiredness) none of the search terms i used included the word "bezel" which would probably set me off in the tight direction.
I have ordered the eBay set on the grounds that if nothing else it will provide me with a good starting point to make my own set. From the photo look a little shallow so they may need boring out and some internal polishing to get them working well. They are also in that black oxide finish that often hides poor finishing on imported tools so a quick skim with a small boring bar will probably be needed to get them usable. If I find they are any use and once I get the geometry right I may look at making some in silver steel and hardening and polishing them so that I can get the best finish.

It also occurs to me that something like a spin riveter but a little powerful than your average one would be a good tool for this job.

[mizgeorge]

The Euro set and the Suttons set look virtually the same but there's a big difference in price. Is there any difference?

I think they're the same Carole (and more expensive at Cousins as well). I've found Euro can be extremely competitive on some things though, so I'm going to upgrade mine to that one ;)

[Nick martin]

They're on the Cooksons site. Roughly £60 iirc.

Nick

[MeadMoon]

I've just ordered these: 18 piece Collet Closing set (http://www.eurofindings.com//Product/10955/T107776-Collet-Closing-Set-18-Piece) Don't really need the larger sizes in the other set (yet!) and the Cookson's set doesn't go small enough for me.

[Binraker]

My kit has arrived and looked like this when I got it:

5737

You can see the surface is less than smooth and covered in a thick layer of lacquer.

And after a quick skim of the 4 largest pushers with a teeny boring bar under white water:

5738

Now to try them out...

[josef1]

They turned out nice looking forward to seeing the results

[Patstone]

Mine are still yukky, perhaps that's why they don't work that we'll. What do you call white water - turps?

[Binraker]

White water is a water soluble cutting oil. Look for MG1 on this page (http://chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Oils.html). The oil lubricates and the water keeps everything cool.

I used a freshly ground HSS boring tool had a very slow feed rate and moderately fast spindle speed to get a fine finish.

[Patstone]

Oh, I see. So a clean up would make it work better, I will give it a try and see if when clean it makes a better job of the bezels.

[Binraker]

second attempt (first one went pinging off across the room somewhere):

5739

I should have spent a bit more time making the bezel more round and fit the stone better but the result is still passable and shows the tool works.

[Dennis]

Hi Binraker,

Thank you for sharing your mod. with us. I presume you took a hammer to it and I was thinking that for small sizes a rotating leather punch could be re-ground too. Or you could adapt a small press.

While this works for tube settings with a flat, or solid base, once you are into more fragile constructions, you would need to support them with thermoplastic resin or setter's cement.

Alternatively, I have found that the least traumatic way to set tubes on a fragile base is to use round nosed pliers. More ideally they have one beak ground slightly flat. This results in some distortion of the roundness, and here the cups can be used manually with a rocking and rotating movement to round them again. Dennis.

[Patstone]

Are you supposed to use with a hammer, I have just been rotating them by hand, I must say, if I had known how useless they are I wouldnt have bought them in the first place. I bought them for finishing off tube settings, but have more success with a fine file and sandpaper.

[mizgeorge]

I use a hammer (gently!)

[Gemsetterchris]

Personally I recommend setting the traditional way, you really ought to be able to see the stone while working.
There will always be fancy gadgets invented, they probably work but you will probably suffer in the long run.

What happens when you don`t have the correct size, or a different shape stone? you`ll be well out of proper practice in the original methods...

[Patstone]

I have just compared both, the ones I have are the cheapie set, and the funnel part is much deeper on the more expensive one. The handle of the tool looks better too on the more expensive one, mine hurts your hand its too small. Like Chris said, use the original method, I am not very good at keeping the top bit unblemished though and spend hours filing and sanding off the marks on the rim.

[Gemsetterchris]

I am not very good at keeping the top bit unblemished though

Check your tool is "smooth", best to be abit rough but not dented as they transfer when pushing (like using a stamp)!
Too smooth & polished just causes slipping.
Nevermind a few rough bits..so long as you have ample thickness left after cleanup..get some rubber wheels, save the skin on your fingers.:)


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