Beaten by bezel

[JonLendrum]

Huff...

I need to vent a little. Tonight i started making a basic bezel setting for a 7x5mm cabochon emerald. Ive done a few bezel settings before but all self taught so I'm not really any good at it. First of all i still haven't worked out an easy way of wrapping the bezel wire around the stone so I end up with little dents in it from using pliers or something stupid. Soldered the first one.... Melted the wall. So i started again and made it to small and couldn't stretch it enough to go over the stone. Made a third and AGAIN it was to small and by this point i screwed it up and through across the room. I then soldered a fourth one to large. :(|

I've basically had a crappy night that has just destroyed my confidence that I'm ever going to be able to make jewellery considering i cant even make the simplest of settings! Sorry about this post its pointless but i just needed to vent before i threw all my jewellery kit out of the window.

Good night

[Nick martin]

Sounds disheartening John, but maybe you were just tired or trying too hard? Sometimes I find it useful to take things slowly, sometimes having a break or to sit back and carefully work out the next step or how to proceed.
I myself often make mistakes as I'm still very much a novice so I wouldn't get too annoyed. Wasted materials is also par for the course at times!

Nick


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[susieq]

Hi Jon - well you are ahead of me as I have never yet managed to successfully set a bezel. The maths is (relatively) simple, but I'm convinced that the torch fairy knows when I have a perfectly sized bezel and shrinks it. Naturally s/he leaves a slightly large ones, slightly large.

Crappy nights where nothing goes right are hugely frustrating but probably there's not a person who reads your post that can't empathise.

No doubt some practiced bezel setters will be along soon to offer practical advice but in the meantime, think about all the things you CAN do now which seemed impossible a while back.

Hope tomorrow is a better day. And keep those windows shut!

Susie

[Dennis]

Hi Jon,
First of all, if you are using that thin stuff, you should cut your own bezel strip from 0.4 mm fine silver sheet. This is much easier to manage.

Secondly, if you have an oval mini mandrel you can begin by wrapping your strip around that in a place slightly smaller than the stone.Then transfer to the stone and let it expand to fit, before marking where to cut with a waterproof marker.

You will soon learn to get this right. If it ends up a fraction too big, remove no more than half a mm. If a tiny bit too small, tap it gently on the mandrel to expand it.

The other thing to watch is that your strip is not too wide but only just taller than the bulge on your stone. For economy, you could practice with copper first.
Dennis.

[Patstone]

Dont I sympathize with you, I bought an odd shaped cabachon and I had only set oval, round and decided it was time to broaden my horizons a bit, so bought an offset marquise one, sort of a lazy "S" shape with the points on the top of the "S" being different heights. I made six in total before getting it right, and over a period of about a month, so put it down and have a go in a few days. I have difficulty getting the bezel the right height. Also something that I have found is to use a charcoal block as the whole thing heats up quicker and the torch isnt on the silver so long so it doesnt melt so quick.
Dennis is right about using 0.4mm sterling silver, personally I use 0.3mm, but it works, the only thing I find is its a bit harder to push over the stone. On a good note, my "S" shape stone is in its bezel and because the bezel wasnt perfect, I put some 1mm round wire around the bezel basically to cover it up, but it looks quite nice, and I know it will sell (that is if I dont keep it myself).
I have been making silver jewellery for about 4 years now, only as a hobby really, but if you look at stuff you made in the beginning you will see a massive difference in the finish. I take photos of all my makes, only with my phone but how I got away with actually selling my stuff at craft fairs in the beginning I dont know, some of the setting is a bit rough to say the least, but people bought it, so dont give up.
P.S And if you do throw your tools away ............... throw them in the Exeter direction.

[Dennis]

Dennis is right about using 0.4mm sterling silver.

Actually Pat, I am an advocate of Fine Silver as I wrote above, firstly because it is easier to push over neatly.

Secondly, as a bonus to beginners, it has a higher melting point than sterling, so is slightly easier to solder without it collapsing. Dennis.

[theresa]

Hi Jon - don't be disheartened, every time you make a mistake it's a lesson learned (as I have certainly discovered).
Personally, I always measure my stones with a vernier and if you have any jewellery books, they are sure to cover how to calculate for different shaped stones.
eg for an oval cab: add width and length, divide by 2 add on thickness of metal to be used and multiply by Pi
This usually works just fine. I personally use .5mm fine silver which I buy in assorted heights from Cookson (2mm, 3mm,4mm,5mm etc). Saves a lot of faffing about and with the extra thickness gives you something to file if not a perfect join.
Chin up
Theresa

[LydiaNiz]

keep at it! I still end up remaking bezels more than I like. I sit the stone on top of a mini bench anvil (http://www.manchesterminerals.co.uk/acatalog/MINIATURE-BENCH-ANVIL-92_069.html#SID=236) (gives me some room to manoeuvre) and wrap the stone in fine silver bezel wire (0.3 x 3mm or 5mm for deep stones). I only use my fingers to do this, sometimes I have to gently anneal the bezel wire first if it's gone a bit stiff. I check that I can push the stone in from above and it'll sit snugly.
If you can now pick the stone up by the sticking off bezel wire - you're laughing. I mark the bezel with fine marker at the point they cross, and cut. Solder with hard solder and a small gentlish flame.
I found 10 x 8 or 10 x 14 the best stone sizes to practice on. I did a bezel 'how to' file I will happily send over if you need it, but you soound like you're doing it right, it's just practice. And sometimes it's just one of those days.
Finally, if they are a 'tiny' bit small, I often put them on a small mandrel and tap with a hide hammer to stretch them a tad. Good luck, it can be a frustrating process!

[Patstone]

Sorry Dennis, didn't read it properly. I use sterling sometimes if I have a large stone or one that is likely to be bashed a bit, like a ring for instance.

[metalsmith]

maybe you were just tired or trying too hard ... just that I reckon

sometimes it's time to go away and come back again ... btw - do you need a cleaner?*-:)

[JonLendrum]

Thanks for all the comments and advice, sorry about this post. It was just soo frustrating, im going to get back to it tonight and hopefully you wont be hearing my tools flying from the window! Thanks guys

[LydiaNiz]

don't be sorry, hope you had better luck today Jon. I was thinking today how very, very far I have to go to get where I want to be in making jewellery, and how long it's taken me (learning as I bumble along) to get to this point. Frustrating indeed!

[Goldsmith]

Jon, May I ask what you are making that requires this bezel set stone? I was wondering if your design would allow a slightly different type of bezel setting. I see that the stone is only 7mm x 5mm, I don't know about your piercing skills but in the past I have made settings for small oval cabs by placing the stone on a piece of 2mm. silver sheet, scribing round the stone, piercing out the sheet to fit the stone, then I use dividers to scribe a line around the piercing to whatever thickness you want for the bezel, then I would solder this pierced bezel onto a backing plate, file around the bezel to clean it up, then if you need to you can pierce out the centre of the backplate if you need the light to shine through the stone, or just leave the backplate on then solder it to the item before prep. polishing and finally setting the stone before final polishing.
Sorry if this is too much info.

James

[Summer]

Hope you managed to get a good one done jon, very frustrating, we all have those days i'm sure. :-)
I use both sterling silver and fine silver, if i've run out of fine silver i make my own by running a piece of SS sheet through the mill to thin it down then cutting it to the height wanted, if i make a high bezel i use a jump ring inside to lift the stone.

[Ebo Von Gaz]

I can totally empathise with you on this, especially from an entirely self taught point of view. There are just times when you need to go and put the kettle on, look at you favourite jewellery making forum and then come back to what feels like a new job, after crying on the shoulders of some sympathetic, like minded souls for a while! You're learning a skilled trade, this is the (occasionally teeth-grindingly frustrating) process.

[JonLendrum]

First of all thanks for all the advice and support i really do love this forum!

So following on from last time, i had made the bezel and soldered it to the shank. I bought myself a great gemstone setting book with really good step by step guides. So taking on board advice from here and the book i set the stone last night.

It start off fine pushing the walls north, south, east west and continuing round until the there were no gaps. The stone was very secure and i thought it was going well. The edge closest to the stone looked uneven from where i think I've rolled over the wall too much and what only can be described as the metal looked squashed and had thinned out. In my book it says to run the tip of the burnisher along the inside of the bezel to clean it up. I was thinking before i tired that i didn't understand how this would work as there is no room to get into the inside of the bezel.

Anyway i tried it and the setting is an absolute embarrassment. I've not only got the most uneven scrappy edge but i think I've damaged the emerald as well by scratching it as i was so desperately trying to flatten the crappy edge.

Could somebody tell me where it all went wrong please, im thinking that i pushed to hard and made it to uneven to rescue with the burnisher.

I presume I've just got to cut the setting off the shank and start again with a new stone... :(

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[ps_bond]

Which book have you gone for?

When pushing the bezel over, you need to use the same force each time; depending on the thickness of the bezel, you can pre-bevel the inside edge with a graver or a rubber abrasive point (not really worthwhile on very thin strip IMO).

Be aware of the hardness of your stones... If the burnisher is harder than the stone, it will probably scratch the stone. If it's the other way round, the stone will scratch the burnisher, but you can repolish that easily. Again, if it's a thin bezel there's not a lot of room.

I've just had a batch of setting work in where all the stones were sapphires & diamonds so no problems with burnishers. The problem I did hit was the heavily included tsavorite that broke in half when I poked it with a fingernail...

[JonLendrum]

Its gemstone setting by Anastasia young.

I've definitely scratched th side of the stone. Yeah I've made the mistake that there was one side that had a tiny tiny gap that wasn't closing up and admittedly i did push a little harder to try and close it.

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[ps_bond]

You might get away with using some diamond polishing paste to get the scratch out. Depends on the value of the stone & the time it would take..

I've got that one too; it's very nice on the eye candy, but I did feel it was a little sparse on the actual setting techniques.

[Gemsetterchris]

Sounds like you were going about the setting ok.
Ideally you want to make sure the top of the bezel is level, smooth & consistent thickness before you start...as well as the stone being a good depth (which will depend on the shape of the cab).

Trick is to move the metal without squashing it, which is easily done.

Burnishing...nothing wrong with that, but like i`ve said many times.. use copper or brass for softer stones or you will scratch them.

[medusa]

If the edge was uneven is it possible it was too high to start?

James, that is an interesting workflow. Had to read it twice before I got it. Would that be a good way to set stones with an irregular shape?

[Gemsetterchris]

Like with any rubover setting, if the stone is too low (or wall too high), you end up with more metal than it takes to circulate the stone..which then leads to the extra bit folding over itself or making it difficult to get things neat.

[Dennis]

Jon, as Chris has said, make sure that the bezel is a smooth and level as possible before you start pushing it over. When trying the stone in before you are ready to set it, lay a piece of dental floss across first with long ends, to yank it out by.

If it crinkled that was either because it was not a close enough fit (the stone should only just lift out with a wax cone or BluTack).
Alternatively it might have been too tall (it should be only slightly taller than the bulge on the stone)

As for beveling, it is much easier to file a bevel on the outside rim before you start.

Lastly, for a beginner you will get the best results by cutting your strip with a saw, from 0.4mm fine silver sheet. Dennis.

[Gemsetterchris]

Going abit more technical..what happens alot of the time is pushing the metal past the point of when it`s done its job.
This is alot easier to witness under a microscope, you can really see the metal moving...what happens then is you push abit more & effectively squash the metal thinner between the harder stone (soft stones being suprisingly hard at certain angles) & the tool steel.
Theoretically, you should`nt need to do any or much cleanup to the inside edge if you do it prior to pushing.



The other thing to remember is that the reason some of us know the answers is because we have been there & got the t-shirt.
kEEP AT IT & WIN :Y:

[medusa]

Have to say after reading this thread I'm going to view the AY book with a more circumspect eye should I ever get around to doing any meaningful gem setting.

[Gemsetterchris]

Have to say after reading this thread I'm going to view the AY book with a more circumspect eye should I ever get around to doing any meaningful gem setting.

Books & youtube videos are a great help, but only to a point.. you can`t learn every possible situation without experiencing things first hand & building up knowledge by doing & suceeding/failing..then you`ll build up a sixth sense to work with.

[medusa]

Books & youtube videos are a great help, but only to a point.. you can`t learn every possible situation without experiencing things first hand & building up knowledge by doing & suceeding/failing..then you`ll build up a sixth sense to work with.
Yup. At the moment face to face tuition isn't possible. I'm waiting on studies to be over and then getting something more efficient than books and trial and error. I'm actually not too bad at bezels, but really would like to expand. I think that stone setting more generally is down the list of other, more basic skills I need to perfect. If I got a commission which included stone setting, I'd probably send it to you.