soldering rose gold...

[Oberon]

I am a total newbie to working with gold full stop but would like to make a set of rings.

Do you have to use rose gold solder on rose gold (very expensive option!) or can you get away with yellow gold?

also can you answer another little question re gold? What is DF gold and how does it differ from 'normal' gold?

Thank you!

Sarah

[Dennis]

Hi Sarah,
You can certainly use yellow gold of the same carat and how much it shows depends mostly on the neatness of your join. The curse is that it will show more to you because your conscience will prompt you, and hardly at all to anyone else.

As you say a set of rings, It sounds as if you might be making a Russian wedding ring, or stacking rings, in which case there will be enough reflections from other colours to hide it even more.

I've no idea what DF gold is, unless it is this: http://www.dfgoldsmith.com/,

or this : http://www.flickr.com/photos/42085750@N00/11139321085/

Regards, Dennis.

[Oberon]

Dennis,

Another night owl like me!?

Thank you so much for that, yes it is a little stack as a practice run prior to a potential commission... I will try with 9ct yellow first and see how I get on I think, save a little bit. I can only find red solder as a paste or large sheet and at nearly £40 a bit much if I don't need to.

For a relative novice would you recommend paste for the yellow gold anyway or solder wire?

With regard to the GF thing it was just that a few of the Cookson gold wires had that in their description... Hmmm

Many thanks again for a v helpful answer!

Sarah


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[Wallace]

Hi Sarah,

I have some red solder at 9ct. I am away until Monday, but pm if you wanted to buy a small bit from me.


I am chomping at the bit for 18ct White. Cannot find a small bit anywhere. Nope, not even Betts Metals.

Kindest Wallace

[Dennis]

For a relative novice would you recommend paste for the yellow gold anyway or solder wire? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Paste solder looks inviting, particularly for beginners, but it is easily over-heated before it begins to flow and your joint will be full of cinders.

I would recommend a snip of panel, or wire solder, probably medium for 9ct and some Auflux/Auroflux. A charcoal block is suggested but not essential.

The Auflux is also handy for silver, as it expands (flowers) less and is easy to dispense from a dropper bottle. Dennis.

[mizgeorge]

Hi Sarah,

I have some red solder at 9ct. I am away until Monday, but pm if you wanted to buy a small bit from me.


I am chomping at the bit for 18ct White. Cannot find a small bit anywhere. Nope, not even Betts Metals.

Kindest Wallace

Sweetie - I have a full panel less about two snips. How much do you need?

[Rob Taylor]

Hi

DF in our descriptions simply refers to the particular alloy composition of that metal ie its formula

rgds Rob

[Dennis]

I have a full panel less about two snips. How much do you need?

The high melting point is actually quite scary, about 100°C more than silver hard. Dennis.

[Dennis]

Hi

DF in our descriptions simply refers to the particular alloy composition of that metal ie its formula

rgds Rob


Thanks, Rob. Glad to hear it wasn't a camera after all. Dennis.

[Oberon]

Wallace,

that is so kind of you! I am going to have a little try with so yellow gold this weekend hopefully but I think I probably will take you up on it as I am not sure my very newly (self taught) soldering skills are up to a good enough joint to use the yellow on a commission.

Hope you have a good weekend and I will be in touch to let you know how I get on!

Sarah

[Oberon]

Dennis,

that is the conclusion I cam to. I had a go with silver paste ages ago before I taught myself to solder properly and I like using wire/panel for that better so I am going to give it a go with yellow gold over the weekend and see how I get on. I also ordered some auflux but forgot the dropper bottle. So Ido appear to using my instincts in the right way! Thank you again,

Sarah

[Oberon]

Hi,

Thank you!

only a very tiny bit just now... I am hoping to make a test ring in the next few days so just enough to solder the joint on 2mm square wire ring so you will know better than me :-)

Total novice with gold and a bit of a novice with soldering so if you here 'swearing' coming from here you know I am making expensive mistakes!

Sarah

[Oberon]

wow that is scary hot...

[Oberon]

Rob,

thank you! I am showing my novice side now aren't I??

Sarah

[adam p]

Hi Sarah,
When soldering 18ct rose/red gold using either yellow or rose/red solder beware of flux depletion. This is when the flux goes black and stops working as a flux. It's best to use a specific high temperature flux; I use Tenacity 125 from Jonson Matthey. I'm sure Cookson sell it. I can let you have a couple of spoons of it if you would like to try it, but I'm not sure about sending white powder through the post. I might get a knock on the door! :)
Adam

[Goldsmith]

Sarah, may I ask what type of soldering torch you are using? as Dennis said most gold solders worth using have much higher melting temperatures than silver solders. I use an Oxy- Propane torch and a plain old Borax cone for my fluxing. I have worked in all colours and carats of golds using Borax as the flux, never had any problems with using Borax so didn't see the need to change.

James

[Wallace]

Oooh, you are an Angel I need enough for four joins on wide shank ring. Would that be okay, pm for some dosh xx thank you G. . Love and hugs xxx

[Oberon]

Adam,

I haven't started yet, just advice gathering... I am going to start on 9ct gold in case I muck it up! Both yellow and rose. Thank you for the offer, I will deff bear that in mind odd knocks on the door not withstanding.....

Sarah

[Oberon]

James,

I am just starting with research. the torch i use for soldering the silver is the little proxon torch Cookson sell,I don't really have the money or safe environment (i.e. I work in my front room!) to use a bigger tank type torch...

Sarah.

[Dennis]

James,I am just starting with research. the torch i use for soldering the silver is the little proxon torch Cookson sell,I don't really have the money or safe environment (i.e. I work in my front room!) to use a bigger tank type torch...Sarah.

Sarah, I sympathise, but it is most likely that you will struggle to solder, once the size of your ring or other piece builds up by adding a setting for a stone for instance. Then your little Proxxon just wont deliver the heat you need.

Safety can be improved by improvising a better soldering station from a large roasting tin, or even a cheap barbequeue base which sometimes comes with a raised back.

There are also larger and hotter hand held torches, which need not break the bank. This has been discussed here over and over, so you might like to read a past thread:http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5380&highlight=What+torch%3F.

Something which is not generally recognised, and I fear a self respecting professional would rather die than improvise, is that if you have another (possibly larger) hand held torch as well as your Proxxon, you can also achieve wonders by raising the background temperature of a large piece with the one and home in with the other to make the solder flow. Dennis.

[caroleallen]

That's what I used to do Dennis before I got my super duper little torch.

A couple of days ago I soldered a pierced out .7mm strip onto a 18cm x 2cm by 1.65mm piece of silver to make a man's cuff. Took me a whole afternoon to get it to work with much swearing and cursing. I was using the rosebud (?) tip so was getting loads of heat but I just couldn't get the contact right. I tried all sorts of clamps, including the titanium ones and in the end I used abut 20 bits of binding wire and eventually it worked! I won't be making another! All good experience though.

[Dennis]

Yes, when I was a boy on a farm, during WW2 it was my job to get the ducks into their shed at night, often in the rain. No sooner were they in, then one would waddle out again, followed by the others. I used to cry with rage.

This feeling comes over me now when using binding wire. Dennis.

[Oberon]

55815580Dennis,

Thank you so much again. Really helpful thread. I have been using the Proxon because I mainly work on silver clay and started to solder to make cufflinks etc. with sterling silver. Then moved on to making mixed rings like the one (hopefully in the picture)I have been successful with that so far and graduated to bits like the narwhal bracelet although that fought back because of its size but the gold worried me as rather more expensive if I wreck it! The GoSystem is one I looked at a while back so will start with that and see how I get on although I got bogged down with the deferent models last time! If I get enough cash and space I will move on to an orca by the look of things!

Sarah

[caroleallen]

Really like that whale cuff Sarah.

[LydiaNiz]

Agree. It is lovely!

[Dennis]

Yes, I like the whale and its silky finish. The ring looks very Mexican, like all the things they have for the Day of the Dead. I hope I shan't bore every one then, if I append notes for the hand held torch:

1. Try to get a self lighting one.

2. When they are full they tend to flare sometimes if tipped. This is overcome by keeping the flame smaller initially and soon gets better once some gas is used up.

3. Although not approved by the makers, it is possible to partly close the air holes with a home made metal clip, to get a more bushy(softer) flame when required. This is loose enough to slide along the burner.

Mine is the Campingas version, because that is my nearest supplier. The picture shows one, with its brass clip. Dennis.

[Oberon]

Thank you, glad you like the narwhal, I was really pleased with him!

I try and do things a bit different with silver clay and love it but I am really enjoying learning how to work with 'proper' metals so to speak. I have also been asked to make balls recently so have got my doming punches and disc cutters, get ridiculously excited about the oddest things now :-). The life of making jewellery!

Sarah

[Oberon]

5585

Hoping this is the right one :-), hubby got it for me...

[LydiaNiz]

I have one of those, and I can't get it stop flaring :-S
I use this one (http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Max-Flame-Butane-Hand-Torch-prcode-999-955B), unless I'm doing bezels, chain etc then use m'small one.
I've not had problems soldering gold, but have yet to do 18ct white, do you think temp would be an issue Dennis?

[Dennis]

5585Hoping this is the right one :-), hubby got it for me...

Yes, that's a good one Sarah. Hope you get to like it.

As you will have read in past threads, many members view it as just a temporary expedient, until they can afford better.

But though I get to use other systems on my day away at a college, I have never progressed from these. And to be honest, I often do tricky jobs at home by choice. Dennis.

[Oberon]

I did it!

Thank you all for your help....

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152135786086005.1073741942.282365386004&type=3

Sarah

[Dennis]

Congratulations Sarah. That's a huge step forward. Dennis.

[mizgeorge]

They look lovely Sarah - you should be very pleased :)

[surfergirl]

Excellent job, Sarah! I love the flowiness of the lily.

[ShinyLauren]

Well done - they look great!

[LydiaNiz]

nice job! Shiny loveliness!

[Oberon]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/10/gazy8ypa.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/10/amehenym.jpg and these are the second set is practised with and the set on the mandrel is the actual commission :). Really pleased with them! Thank you again for all your help... Sarah


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[Tabby66]

They look lovely Sarah!!