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View Full Version : Want to know ALL about hallmarking???



SteveLAO
13-01-2014, 02:32 PM
Well folks its that time again!! Our infamous hallmarking information day is back and is better than ever before!
Date for your diaries is Monday April 7th and the venue is the Goldsmiths Hall, Foster Lane, London.
The format for the morning is the same, with two presentations telling you pretty much ALL there is ever any need to know about hallmarking and following the slap up lunch the practical hands on afternoon sessions include "have a go at hallmarking" , "have a go at assaying" , a guided tour of the assay office AND a guided tour of the company library.
Its a fabulous day out and if you've never been to the Goldsmiths Hall before, then that's an amazing experience in itself.
Places will be strictly limited due to the tour schedules and will be first come first served.
Cost is 50 plus VAT.
Let me know ASAP if you're interested in attending. Looking forward to seeing you there!

SteveLAO
27-03-2014, 08:44 AM
Just to let you know we still have literally one or two places left for this event on 7th April. I know some of you are coming already which is great, but if you fancy a trip to London, a slap up lunch, a visit to Goldsmiths' Hall (which is usually closed to the public!) and a look around the assay office and library as well as learning some things you didn't know you didn't know then please PM me and I can sort you out a place!

LydiaNiz
27-03-2014, 08:55 AM
Cannot make this (boo) but PLEASE do something blog-like with Cooksons - I am so sick of people ignoring the legalities of hallmarking, it could cover basics, including why hallmark, what needs hallmarking, repurposing certs, and so on.

SteveLAO
27-03-2014, 09:11 AM
It does all that and much more!!

TeeDee
27-03-2014, 04:36 PM
Having been myself last year I can thoroughly recommend.
The staff were great and very helpful and the lunch alone was worth the cost. The knowledge gained was invaluable.

Steve, As an aside, I am with LydiaNiz when it comes to people blatantly ignoring hallmarking rules. If some of the items that show on eBay purporting to be Sterling silver were genuine, at the prices they offer I would be happy to buy them for their scrap value. (is this really 65gms of .925 for 12.99 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/sterling-silver-xl-bangle-hearts-/131098402041?pt=UK_JewelleryWatches_WomensJeweller y_Rings_SR&hash=item1e8612dcf9 If it is I might just give up any ideas of selling anything myself )
I can't remember from the seminar who polices this aspect. Is it the Assay Offices themselves or Trading standards.
Kind Regards
Tim

SteveLAO
28-03-2014, 08:22 AM
The trading standards have the legal power to enforce the law, but no specialist knowledge of the subject, and the assay office is the other way round, so we work very closely together. Ebay is a real bugbear of mine as its full of stuff that's wrong in one way or another, and from what I can see ebay don't seem to be policing this. Everything from a Victorian sovereign dated 1918 (someone paid 300 for that), and then there were some 9ct sovereigns for sale!!! not to mention modern cast stuff sold as antique with cast hallmarks, stuff with fake marks and all sorts. I think the problem may be that TS departments are regional and ebay is on line so nobody appears to be taking responsibility. We've had some success by personally contacting the sellers of this junk and some have been withdrawn from sale, but i think that's just a drop in the ocean.
TeeDee: I've tried asking a question to the guy selling the silver bangle, but it's bounced back saying due to the number of questions he's being asked, he's not able to answer my question!!!! That says it all I think!! Have a look in his feedback and someone has sent some stuff back to him back saying it wasn't Sterling!

trialuser
28-03-2014, 10:24 AM
Having been myself last year I can thoroughly recommend.
The staff were great and very helpful and the lunch alone was worth the cost. The knowledge gained was invaluable.

Steve, As an aside, I am with LydiaNiz when it comes to people blatantly ignoring hallmarking rules. If some of the items that show on eBay purporting to be Sterling silver were genuine, at the prices they offer I would be happy to buy them for their scrap value. (is this really 65gms of .925 for 12.99 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/sterling-silver-xl-bangle-hearts-/131098402041?pt=UK_JewelleryWatches_WomensJeweller y_Rings_SR&hash=item1e8612dcf9 If it is I might just give up any ideas of selling anything myself )
I can't remember from the seminar who polices this aspect. Is it the Assay Offices themselves or Trading standards.
Kind Regards
Tim
That bangle is the typical ali express (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/LQ-B115-Free-Shipping-925-Silver-wholesale-fashion-Jewelry-Bracelet-Bangle-Cuff-Indian-heart-bracelet-amsa/733707198.html) stuff.
Wouldn't be too bad a way to make a bit of pocket money if you just sold it as what it is - cheap junk fashion disposable jewellery. You could presumably even sell it as being stamped 925 (which it is) as long as you didnt describe it as silver or sterling silver?
Edit: This one (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/LQ-B150-Free-Shipping-925-Silver-wholesale-fashion-Jewelry-Bracelet-Bangle-Cuff-The-two-circles-bracelet/516060_733792349.html), with a bit of 'cut and shut' might sort out medusa's little problem - twice!

LydiaNiz
28-03-2014, 03:55 PM
noone seems to care - I emailed a supposedly 'poshe' online company who were selling unhallmarked goods sold as silver (which had to be well over weight as they were big cuffs), but their attitude was 'it's up to the seller to cover it'

pearlescence
28-03-2014, 04:23 PM
EBay is just a scam place for jewellery these days. I stopped trying to deal with the UK sellers of fake Tahitian and South Sea pearls (invariably freshwaters) They either knew exactly what they were selling and were rude or had themselves been scammed and were defensive. But the prob is, of course, that people go on there and see the prices and wonder why tahitians there cost 20 and mine in my website are hundreds or thousands (The answer is, of course, because mine are real!As the actress said to the bishop)

medusa
28-03-2014, 04:37 PM
Lydia, if they are acting as an agent, like say ebay or noths or etsy, they could probably get away with that and in a sense it's true, BUT you try and list anything on ebay with a major name attached to it like vuitton, ralph lauren etc, and the VERO guys come down on you because LV and RL etc put so much legal pressure on ebay that they had to do something. I suspect TS have too much on their plates dealing with horse burgers etc to have the money or manpower to go after the big agents. Fleabay basically just want to maximise profits, so have little interest in removing scammers.

medusa
28-03-2014, 04:42 PM
EBay is just a scam place for jewellery these days. I stopped trying to deal with the UK sellers of fake Tahitian and South Sea pearls (invariably freshwaters) They either knew exactly what they were selling and were rude or had themselves been scammed and were defensive. But the prob is, of course, that people go on there and see the prices and wonder why tahitians there cost 20 and mine in my website are hundreds or thousands (The answer is, of course, because mine are real!As the actress said to the bishop)

and the teleshopping channels! I actually bought two SS pearls off ebay (I seem to recall you had good things to say about the seller) and my mother was horrified at the price saying that she'd seen pearls almost the same on the TV shop for about 20. Would have it that the TV channel could be scamming.

pearlescence
29-03-2014, 07:37 AM
There are a couple of decent eBay sellers but you need to know who. There are some big companies selling pearls on shopping channels and the pearls are cack, talked up massively to be great quality (they aren't)

TeeDee
29-03-2014, 10:11 AM
The trading standards have the legal power to enforce the law, but no specialist knowledge of the subject, and the assay office is the other way round, so we work very closely together. Ebay is a real bugbear of mine as its full of stuff that's wrong in one way or another, and from what I can see ebay don't seem to be policing this. Everything from a Victorian sovereign dated 1918 (someone paid 300 for that), and then there were some 9ct sovereigns for sale!!! not to mention modern cast stuff sold as antique with cast hallmarks, stuff with fake marks and all sorts. I think the problem may be that TS departments are regional and ebay is on line so nobody appears to be taking responsibility. We've had some success by personally contacting the sellers of this junk and some have been withdrawn from sale, but i think that's just a drop in the ocean.
TeeDee: I've tried asking a question to the guy selling the silver bangle, but it's bounced back saying due to the number of questions he's being asked, he's not able to answer my question!!!! That says it all I think!! Have a look in his feedback and someone has sent some stuff back to him back saying it wasn't Sterling!

Steve,
Thanks for your response. If you do fancy pursuing further, the seller should be contactable using the eBay messaging system (click on the sellers name and it should bring up basic details and a contact button)rather than email. Whether you would get a reply is another matter.
Playing Devil's Advocate then, if TSOs and the Assay offices are not sufficiently resourced to tackle the problem should we just accept that there are plenty of scammers that will carry on scamming and dare I say it plenty of 'happy' and blissfully ignorant customers who are convinced they have just collared a bargain?
I for one would be happy to report rogue sellers if I thought action could be taken, but wouldn't take the trouble if nothing can be done.
As you may know I am relatively new to the trade but I do try to learn and play by the rules. Blatant flouting irritates me intensely. I'm fortunate that for me It's a hobby which may also provide a small income if I am lucky. For many who have spent years training and developing their businesses The rogue traders must be a major source of annoyance.
Any advice welcome
Many thanks
Tim

medusa
30-03-2014, 10:30 AM
TeeDee: I've tried asking a question to the guy selling the silver bangle, but it's bounced back saying due to the number of questions he's being asked, he's not able to answer my question!!!! That says it all I think!! Have a look in his feedback and someone has sent some stuff back to him back saying it wasn't Sterling!

Because he's a business seller, his personal address and email address are actually displayed. Maybe his local TSO could pay a visit? If people didn't buy counterfeit cr@p like this, then maybe the market would dry up a bit

SteveLAO
31-03-2014, 09:04 AM
We're onto this guy having made a test purchase....so watch this space :)

SteveLAO
31-03-2014, 09:11 AM
Steve,
Thanks for your response. If you do fancy pursuing further, the seller should be contactable using the eBay messaging system (click on the sellers name and it should bring up basic details and a contact button)rather than email. Whether you would get a reply is another matter.
Playing Devil's Advocate then, if TSOs and the Assay offices are not sufficiently resourced to tackle the problem should we just accept that there are plenty of scammers that will carry on scamming and dare I say it plenty of 'happy' and blissfully ignorant customers who are convinced they have just collared a bargain?
I for one would be happy to report rogue sellers if I thought action could be taken, but wouldn't take the trouble if nothing can be done.
As you may know I am relatively new to the trade but I do try to learn and play by the rules. Blatant flouting irritates me intensely. I'm fortunate that for me It's a hobby which may also provide a small income if I am lucky. For many who have spent years training and developing their businesses The rogue traders must be a major source of annoyance.
Any advice welcome
Many thanks
Tim

It makes me cross too....flouting hallmarking regulations these days seems to be, for those who do it, no big deal.....but as we all know it IS a big deal! In the old days punishment for offenders included death!!! Some would say it's a shame they've abolished that, and the pillory and suchlike :), but it does go to show how seriously the crime was taken in those days. I think far more public education and awareness is part of the answer, and there certainly seems to be a lot of interest in it, judging by attendance at our seminars on the subject, which are generally sell-outs. With the start of internet and so called annonymous trading on line, its opened the floodgates for the scammers though, as its so difficult to police. Just ask people like links of London, who apparently have a whole department dedicated to trawling the net finding fake sites.....

TeeDee
31-03-2014, 01:13 PM
Many thanks for the feedback Steve. I'm sure many will be interested to know the outcome if you are permitted to reveal.

As I seem to have diversified your original thread, just a quick reiteration of my original post.

The Hallmarking Seminar was a really valuable experience which I would thoroughly recommend to anyone and in particular those who are new starters and considering marketing their work.
Tim

pearlescence
09-04-2014, 06:39 PM
I went on the day seminar tour of the London Assay Office and Goldsmiths hall and learned soooooooooooooo much. amazing day. I wrote all about it in the blog on my website (thanks to stevelao for pix)
top tip from the assayers..please don't wrap items individually because they spend their lives undoing little plastic bags and getting things out of them and putting things back in them. When I checked with one, her eyes lit up at the suggestion of a compartmenty plastic box. Make your assayer happy!
http://www.pearlescence.co.uk/blog/http://www.pearlescence.co.uk/blog/

LydiaNiz
10-04-2014, 11:56 AM
Steve, have sent you a PM re hallmarking info!