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theresa
13-01-2014, 10:00 AM
Have decided to try Keum Boo but as the price of a sheet is so expensive wondered about rolling down a small piece of 24ct wire to experiment with. Has anyone done this? Unable to compare cost of wire versus sheet because the description for a 3.5 x 3.5 sheet on Cookies gives it as 2.5 microns and no weight. I am sure there is someone out there who knows exactly how to work it out!
Theresa

LydiaNiz
13-01-2014, 10:13 AM
:-) I just ordered some and a hotplate after giving up trying to work out if I'd be saving any money!

theresa
13-01-2014, 10:20 AM
Just been having another look and see gold foil 855 001 but it says 'not transfer, plain, needs to be picked up & placed'. What on earth do they mean?

ps_bond
13-01-2014, 10:56 AM
Have decided to try Keum Boo but as the price of a sheet is so expensive wondered about rolling down a small piece of 24ct wire to experiment with. Has anyone done this? Unable to compare cost of wire versus sheet because the description for a 3.5 x 3.5 sheet on Cookies gives it as 2.5 microns and no weight. I am sure there is someone out there who knows exactly how to work it out!


Yup; there's an article on Ganoksin that briefly mentions rolling it. I ended up with a foil a bit thicker than the commercial stuff; it adheres fine and it's a bit more resilient in polishing than the thinner foil. But it costs more - in time and in materials. 35x35x0.0025 gives 3.0625mm3, so 0.00030625cm3; density 19.3gcm-3 -> 0.059g.

Dennis
13-01-2014, 11:06 AM
My experiments with this, after a tutorial at college, gave results which were too subtle and fragile for the work involved. So I resorted to making material from very thin 18ct wires, soldered onto silver sheet with tiny crumbs of solder and then rolled flat.

For me that gave more positive results and value for the time spent. Here is some, which I have shown before:

trialuser
13-01-2014, 01:29 PM
Yup; there's an article on Ganoksin that briefly mentions rolling it. I ended up with a foil a bit thicker than the commercial stuff; it adheres fine and it's a bit more resilient in polishing than the thinner foil. But it costs more - in time and in materials. 35x35x0.0025 gives 3.0625mm3, so 0.00030625cm3; density 19.3gcm-3 -> 0.059g.

Are you confusing your units here Peter?89 x 89 x 0.0025 gives 19.8mm3 so 0.00198cm3 ?
Also should yours be 0.0059g? - but maths is not my strong point.

ps_bond
13-01-2014, 02:14 PM
Insufficient coffee error, probably. The sheets are 3.5 *inches* aren't they!? As opposed to 35mm, which is what I was working from...
Similarly, the conversion from mm3 to cm3 was a typo.

OK, so no calculating stuff for me before 3 coffees :)
(nor after!)

Try for 0.38g? :D

theresa
14-01-2014, 10:39 AM
My experiments with this, after a tutorial at college, gave results which were too subtle and fragile for the work involved. So I resorted to making material from very thin 18ct wires, soldered onto silver sheet with tiny crumbs of solder and then rolled flat.

For me that gave more positive results and value for the time spent. Here is some, which I have shown before:

Nice work Dennis, but for this particular application I can't use it as the cuff is already formed and patterned.

LydiaNiz
14-01-2014, 10:48 AM
Hope to have first results by the end of the week. Fingers crossed...

CJ57
14-01-2014, 06:28 PM
Well have just ordered the foil this is quite exciting :) I have my old iron baseplate for the hob so don't need the expense of a hot plate. Have got 4 spoons on the go so on a roll long may it last!

LydiaNiz
14-01-2014, 07:16 PM
I got a hotplate on amazon for £14 - the only thing I'm waiting on (which I forgot!) is heat proof gloves to arrive!

CJ57
14-01-2014, 09:01 PM
I got a hotplate on amazon for £14 - the only thing I'm waiting on (which I forgot!) is heat proof gloves to arrive!
That's good to know Lydia if mine turns out to be too small

Dennis
14-01-2014, 10:08 PM
Some people use an upturned iron held in a vice. They usually have more choice of settings. Dennis.

CJ57
14-01-2014, 10:19 PM
Some people use an upturned iron held in a vice. They usually have more choice of settings. Dennis.
Thanks Dennis that's always another option, I think we have a spare in the cupboard. I thought I'd be able to regulate my old iron plate on the gas hob but I guess it'll be finding out the hard way. My saw blade was definitely at a pinging tension today as it bounced off the edge of the silver across the end of my thumb, such a fine cut if I say so myself :) !!

Patstone
15-01-2014, 09:29 AM
At least you didn't end up in A&E like my daughter did a few weeks ago. It snapped and ended up in her thumb, and of course because it has teeth it wouldn't come out.

CJ57
15-01-2014, 12:26 PM
:(
At least you didn't end up in A&E like my daughter did a few weeks ago. It snapped and ended up in her thumb, and of course because it has teeth it wouldn't come out.

Ouch! It's been so many months since I have been able to be in the workshop my hands are too bloomin soft.I once put a sewing machine needle through my thumb nail and my dad had to deal with it, a pair of pliers et voila :(

medusa
15-01-2014, 02:20 PM
Yup; there's an article on Ganoksin that briefly mentions rolling it. I ended up with a foil a bit thicker than the commercial stuff; it adheres fine and it's a bit more resilient in polishing than the thinner foil. But it costs more - in time and in materials. 35x35x0.0025 gives 3.0625mm3, so 0.00030625cm3; density 19.3gcm-3 -> 0.059g.

I get how it costs in terms of time, but wouldn't rolling your own down be cheaper because the finer something is rolled, the more expensive it seems to be? I mean if fine gold wire is £28 per gram, grain is even cheaper and the ready made foil is twice the price for half the amount….

Or is my maths more rubbish that most people already think?

Tabby66
15-01-2014, 04:15 PM
You're right Liz, the more manufacturing/processing that is required, the higher the cost, for instance tube tends to be at the higher end, this is often forgotten when looking at the metal prices, hence the difference between the silver/gold price and the sheet/tube/wire that we buy.

I think that grain is different, re VAT pre-processing and what it needs mixing/alloying with?? But I'm sure others will be able to add more!!

medusa
16-01-2014, 05:37 PM
You're right Liz, the more manufacturing/processing that is required, the higher the cost, for instance tube tends to be at the higher end, this is often forgotten when looking at the metal prices, hence the difference between the silver/gold price and the sheet/tube/wire that we buy.

I think that grain is different, re VAT pre-processing and what it needs mixing/alloying with?? But I'm sure others will be able to add more!!

my thinking was that you could just buy a few grams of 24ct grain, melt it into little ingots and then roll super thin for keum boo or maybe even just roll the grain as is?

CJ57
16-01-2014, 06:28 PM
my thinking was that you could just buy a few grams of 24ct grain, melt it into little ingots and then roll super thin for keum boo or maybe even just roll the grain as is?

Rolling grains sounds a good idea if you want it to be as abstract as I do. I received my 1 sheet!! of foil today don't know what I expected for £59 but my oh nearly stopped breathing when I told him :) I had better mke a good job of this

medusa
16-01-2014, 07:15 PM
you ~showed~ him the invoice? I never ever do that. Good luck with it.

LydiaNiz
16-01-2014, 07:53 PM
First test piece today - be gentle.
My workshop is so brutally cold, it was a joy to have a warm face. Bit alarmed at how the whole unit got hot, but was fine. Didn't have the gloves, so used tweezers to hold it while I burnished. Found agate burnisherway better than metal (both ball and curved). Def going to buy another agate burnisher as it gets toasty so quick. It really is cold enough that I was able to cool the agate down with my hands pretty fast. Easy triangles this time, Mr got me new scalpel blades today, so will be able to try fancier stuff now. I hope ;-)
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Dennis
16-01-2014, 08:21 PM
That's a very impressive result Lydia, much enhance by the deadly platinol. Hope to see what you do next, Dennis.

caroleallen
16-01-2014, 08:44 PM
Very pretty Lydia. Like it a lot.

LydiaNiz
16-01-2014, 08:52 PM
thanks both, I can see me totally falling in love with it.

Tabby66
17-01-2014, 03:24 PM
Very nice Lydia, really adds a lovely effect to the piece xx

medusa
17-01-2014, 04:18 PM
nice design! I like the contrast between the blackened silver and the glowing gems and gold. lovely chain as well.

theresa
18-01-2014, 11:53 AM
Bit the bullet and ordered a sheet from Cookson, can't wait to try it.
Love the pendant Lydia.

LydiaNiz
18-01-2014, 01:49 PM
thanks! I can't wait to do round 2 and see how you find it too - next couple of bits are a bit more adventurous. Got to get some commissions finished first before play time though!

theresa
29-01-2014, 02:50 PM
First test piece today - be gentle.
My workshop is so brutally cold, it was a joy to have a warm face. Bit alarmed at how the whole unit got hot, but was fine. Didn't have the gloves, so used tweezers to hold it while I burnished. Found agate burnisherway better than metal (both ball and curved). Def going to buy another agate burnisher as it gets toasty so quick. It really is cold enough that I was able to cool the agate down with my hands pretty fast. Easy triangles this time, Mr got me new scalpel blades today, so will be able to try fancier stuff now. I hope ;-)
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Lydia - how many times did you have to heat up/pickle the silver before you applied the gold?
Thanks
Theresa

LydiaNiz
31-01-2014, 03:46 PM
hello! (Sorry been off with ill husband) the pendant was fine silver, but for the sterling pieces I anneal/pickle/rinse and rub with brass brush 7 times (same as if I was prepping for reticulation). As soon as the silver stops darkening upon heating, you should be ready to go. Have done some more, will get some pics up later!

theresa
05-02-2014, 02:27 PM
Thank you Lydia. Just wanted to make sure before I commit gold to metal!

LydiaNiz
08-02-2014, 03:58 PM
another couple of pieces testing the water. I'm finding a torch rather than a hot plate much easier. I'm frustrated at the mo, tag team illness at home has been keeping me out of the studio, and my dremel blew up on Friday - noooooooooo!

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