Hello from Devon

[TeeDee]

Hello,
My name's Tim. I registered some time ago, finally got round today to saying hello and promptly forgot username/password etc but now sorted.
I'm 2+ years retired from the NHS and decided to convert an 'evening class hobby' into something more, so have undertaken additional training with a great teacher at her gallery on the Barbican in Plymouth. Was delighted and encouraged when she asked to display some of my work for sale in her gallery. Trouble is the more I learn, the more I find to learn!
I've registered my hallmark at London this year and for anyone new to hallmarking I can thoroughly recommend the LAO Hallmarking Information Day at£35. Especially as I used to think it was only fully time served craftsmen who could register. The lunch alone was worth the money. I believe SteveLAO has made a previous post about it.

I do have a problem that I could do with some advice on or pointing to suitable reference works.
That of ring sizing. I have made a number of rings in the past of varying shapes and sizes but because they have not been for specific customers, I offer them as they turn out so to speak.
Recently I have been asked to make a couple of rings for of a specific size, one for a distant customer who quoted me size Q but obviously couldn't send her finger. It seems that there is a big difference between churning out rings of varying sizes than building to a specific size.
I have a cheap (£20) ring stick with US and European numbers/circumferences/dia etc but when I refer to conversion charts even this seems to be at odds with measurements taken by my teacher with her English lettered ringsticks.

Any info/advice/references would be appreciated particularly on the following.
- Allowances to add to length of metal when making rings - some say twice the metal thickness but that seems to end up small.
- Tips on measuring finished ring sizes - e.g. when to use leading edge or centreline and any differences between wide and narrow bands
- Similarly any tips on measuring fingers would be useful.
- Anything else!

Hope this isn't too long for a first post. I did look for other posts on the subject but couldn't find any so maybe its just me that doesn't quite get it.

Many thanks
Tim

[Dennis]

Welcome to the forum, Tee Dee.

Some brief answers to your questions on Ring Sizing:

It does not matter what make of ring sizers and ring stick you use, provided that the customer/recipient uses the same. It does help if they are both by the same manufacturer and if the ring sizers are of the same width and profile as your final ring.

Narrower or wider rings on the same finger would appear to be looser or tighter, using the same apparent size. The best you can do is to take the size from an imaginary centre line on the ring. In difficult cases (by post) you might be driven to sending a test ring, or selection of rings made in a cheap metal first.

My personal preference is not to rely on the maths, but make the ring about one size or a half size too small and then stretch it with a ring stretcher. This is quick and efficient and does not mark the outer surface. Ring stretchers often have arbitrary scales, so you still have to monitor that with your ring stick.

Regards, Dennis.

[TeeDee]

Many thanks for your quick and helpful response Dennis.
I had a feeling that it is not an exact science.
Do you (or anyone else) have any opinions on sending postal customers the plastic adjustable ring sizers such as Cookson's Multisizer (I cant post links yet)
Had a look at your album. Really nice work and nice also to see functional items as well as purely decorative. Can't let my wife see as she's a keen quilter and may take a fancy to the tape measure holder!
Kind Regards
Tim

[donnie]

Hi Tim and welcome to the forum, ditto retirement, ditto hobby into something more, I have found the plastic ring measuring things not very accurate. What I do If the person
cannot come by for a measure is ask them to pop into any jewellers and ask them to size the particular finger, and e-mail me.

DONNIE




www.silver-n-things.co.uk

[lorraineflee]

Hi Tim, welcome to the forum from another retiree!

[TeeDee]

Thanks for the welcome and feedback Donnie,
Given Dennis's advice on best results coming from measurements taken using sizes of equivalent width and profile to the final ring, do you generally get good results from customers using jewellers or have you had any mismeasures?

I'm sure I'll be asking more questions on sizing of rings/bangles etc so apologies in advance

All the best
Tim

[TeeDee]

Thank you Lorraine
I've never joined any sort of forum before but looking around this one it seems really friendly and informative.
I only hope I'm able in the future to give a bit as well as take!
Kind Regards
Tim
PS - (Also to DONNIE) since retirement, do you wonder how you ever found the time to go to work??

[Tabby66]

Welcome TeeDee!! Measuring and making rings when the customer isn't present for you to take the original measurement is and absolute nightmare!!!! (sorry)

Dennis' tips are very useful, but don't forget not to stretch rings with settings/stones on the ringstretcher!!

[Lucie]

Hiya. I sell rings on-line & I don't end up meeting most of my customers!
I send out brass sample rings with a return addressed envelope. So if they say they are a O, I might send them 4mm brass blanks:
-O; O; O 1/2; -P and P
I find this covers all my bases - my husbands wedding ring had to be re-sized 3 times by a well known high street retailer who couldn't seem to measure correctly!

Good luck x

[Tabby66]

I send out brass sample rings with a return addressed envelope. So if they say they are a O, I might send them 4mm brass blanks:
-O; O; O 1/2; -P and P
Good luck x

What a fantastic idea Lucie, can I ask, do you limit this to the UK, only I have had 2 orders for rings from the US (second one finished yesterday), and I'm now having kittens!!!! Just thinking for the future.............=:-O

[donnie]

Hi Tim, I have just read Dennis`s post properly and of course the ring width will have a bearing on the fit, the customer would have to explain the type of ring they were planning. I have used this method only about a dozen times, and have not had any problems. I don't want to come across as more than a beginner myself, the rings I sell cost between £20-£40 not a lot of scope to send off samples. I started to use Dennis`s method of making the ring 1/2 a size smaller and stretching it to size a while back and it works very well.
Yes there is never enough time in the day, spinning classes start tomorrow, there is snow on the Cairngorms, the boat needs work on the hull HELP!!!

DONNIE



www.silver-n-things.co.uk

[Patstone]

Hi Tim, ditto all what you said, retired, making as a hobby, also born and lived in Devon all my life, mainly South Devon when I was growing up, Teignmouth to be exact, then got a job in Exeter and have been living there ever since. I take my stuff to craft fairs because I cant wear all of it, but I do try. I have found the plastic measurers not very accurate either, my best bet so far is to send the customer some of the cotton string, because it doesnt stretch, get them to wind it around their finger and cut through both pieces, making sure they can get it over their knuckle of course. I only add on the thickness of the silver and perhaps a mm if it is a wider ring, as I have made some a centimeter wide. P.S you can also use cotton string to polish awkward bits by putting one end in a vice and holding the other and putting polish on it and rubbing awkward areas on it.

[josef1]

there is are various phone apps that lets the customer put an existing ring on the screen and measure it,some also measure your finger size but I've not had much luck with that. https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/ring-sizer/id397446589?mt=8 it wont suit everyone though I suppose.

[TeeDee]

Many thanks for the welcome and the useful tip Tabby.
Not done a lot of setting yet apart from a few bezels and tube sets but I'll certainly bear that in mind
Thanks
Tim

[TeeDee]

Thanks Lucie,
When I joined the forum yesterday I really didn't expect such a fantastic response from everybody and it's comforting to know that others have had to overcome similar problems.
Do you make your brass blanks or can they be bought? I've not seen any online yet. Also, any reason for brass rather than copper?

Kind Regards
Tim

[Lucie]

Hi again. Terrible internet connection today :(

Tabby:
I've only had a couple of US orders, but a few from Europe. You just have to remember that of you're using Royal Mail, they won't allow you to arrange return postage for overseas customers from here. All I usually send them the envelope; tell them to pay the postage & then I "refund it" (make sure you allow for this when you're working out you're costings!).
I always charge an upfront deposit of 40% - 50% final retail price. The customers are happy with this & it makes sure my blanks are returned & I'm never going to fall foul of someone dishonest, or someone who places an order & changes their mind!

I also incorporate the cost of a ring "re-size" into all my prices, that way, in the extremely rare case of the finished product not being the perfect size, you won't have to approach them for more money, or eat into you're profits.

Tim:
I've had my brass blanks for a long time now & I've been lucky that i've never had any gone awry. I don't work in copper, so i'm not the best person to ask about that one :) You might be able to approach a caster to have them made? There's usually someone in Hatton Garden that can do just about anything :)
You could always have them made up for individual jobs as you get orders rather than making up / paying out for a full set?

Also worth mentioning that different profile rings (ie: Court & Flat), can measure slightly differently.
I bought my UK ring sizers / sticks from Rashbels. They don't seem to sell my set any more, but they sell other bits.

Hope that's helpful x

[TeeDee]

Thanks Lucie,
Yes it is very helpful.

As a point of interest for other users, although I only do one morning a week training at a local gallery, Rashbel's have previously given me 15% student discount on tooling and 5% on bullion. Always worth asking if people are undertaking training of any kind.
All the best
Tim

[TeeDee]

Thank you Patstone.
Not too far apart then as we live just down the road in Tavistock.
The cotton string you refer to.......would that be the cotton tress I see advertised sometimes?

I have about another 101 questions to ask but it probably wouldn't be right to expand this thread (no pun intended) as it started off as a 'Hello'
I'm really grateful though to all who have responded to my post.
No doubt I will be posting in other threads in the future so if you feel you can help, it will always be appreciated
Kind regards
Tim