West Dean College - stone setting and mounts making

[Wallace]

I am on a three day course as I wanted to improve on my techniques. Or, really, I wanted to learn at the hands of someone and their guidance on claw and Rex settings. There is less call for rex ones and the pre made mounts are easy to purchase and solder onto work. However, I have had some commissions to do some, so it was an opportunity not to miss.

First things first, the tutor Penny was on the course that Carole and I attended. Well, that is fun!

Secondly, oh my finger is sore from using a bullstick!

And....

Thirdly, if you go on a similar course, pack a mini workshop to include as many tools as possible, even files, soldering tweezers, pliers, saw frame etc. the course cost wasn't too bad for three full days and an evening.

Penny is superb and a delight to have instructions from.

I have made a Rex setting... Totally messed up, but learned so much as a result.


Fancy claw setting tomorrow, can't wait! :D

[caroleallen]

I'm very envious Wallace, West Dean is a fabulous place. Wonder why she was on our course?

[Wallace]

I'm very envious Wallace, West Dean is a fabulous place. Wonder why she was on our course?

Good question. I think, from conversation, it was a refresher and a way to see how he taught it, will try and make further enquiries. .

[Tabby66]

Aaaw, interesting to hear Wallace, I've been making a few Rex's lately and some wigwams.....no piccies yet, but will be posting.....I think these are going to become more popular again, (maybe that's the thrill of the making rubbing off on me!!)!!

[Petal]

Phoarr, how fabulous Wallace, a stone setting course at West Dean and the spectacular gardens; it must be heaven. They were our local gardens when we lived 'down south' and much missed. I can't wait to see what you make once you get back to your workshop.

[caroleallen]

Good question. I think, from conversation, it was a refresher and a way to see how he taught it, will try and make further enquiries. .

But didn't she say she hadn't done it before? I thought it was odd that she was so good at the first attempt.

[ps_bond]

Sounds fun - I had a quick look to see the syllabus, but it seems to have gone from the page.
Pics?

[Wallace]

oh, it was amazing everyone. The info for the course gets taken down the day the course starts. So pretty efficient. I should have saved the pdf, rather than just print it off. Edit, added a link to the next course. Oh, just as a point of note: The mouth blow torches were interesting, I have never used them before and they do take a bit of getting used to. Not good for any asthmatics or if you have a chest infection. You have to take a lot of tools, although Penny does share hers with the group.


The whole learning time was basically 3 days and 3 evenings of learning about the tools, settings and mountings, including how to work out the sizes and distances. Including some really great tips from Penny. Residential options were a bit steep, but neighbouring B&B can bring the price down a lot.

please accept my apologies for the poor pics, learning the new camera with a tired brain and tired hands!


these pictures show the two of the three settings I undertook. A basic crown and a contemporary claw - 6mm CZ used.
4896

4897

sorry for not replying sooner. The New Forest has so many trees especially where I was staying that the signal for the internet was patchy.

edit:

Peter: Penny is doing another course next year: https://www.westdean.org.uk/CollegeChannel/ShortCourses/Courses/JewelleryandEnamelling.aspx#

Carole: I remember Tony saying she knew some of it. I spoke with Penny yesterday (lack of internet delayed reply). Penny explained that it was useful to see how Tony delivered his course and the content. She rushed back as she had a teaching session to deliver at West Dean! Penny was brilliant, patient, clear and made us laugh loads too.

Jill: with you on the resurgence of the crown. Can you explain what a wigwam is - or is it better for pictures?

Jules: the gardens were spectacular and the sheep kept me from them. Did I mention I am scared of sheep, not the noise they make.. it is their eyes.... *shuddering* Looking forward to putting some of it all into practice. So exciting to feel like I have some skills that I can apply, but to be fair, Penny was an excellent tutor. I made lots of mistakes but find I learn a lot from them, so happy that it didn't all go to plan.

[caroleallen]

I love that claw setting Wallace. I don't normally like claw settings much but that one is beautiful.

Glad you had a good time. Maybe Penny felt a bit awkward when she was on Tony's course as the rest of us were all beginners. Great that you learned so much.

What a shame those vicious sheep were guarding the arboretum! Wonderful place. I have very happy memories of that arboretum as it was where I took a phone call from my sister to say that she didn't have cancer after having had a hysterectomy.

[Petal]

I really love that setting in the bottom pic Wallace, it has a medieval look about it. It was great to hear how you got on on the course - oh how I'd love to do a stone setting course.
Ah, shame you don't like sheep - I love em, but them I am surrounded by them. So you would have missed the walled gardens then,
where the glasshouses are - that's my favourite part of the gardens, that and the Luttyns arch ... many happy memories and we used to go there when the entrance was a portacabin, rather than the rather grand one they have now! Its true Carole, places can be very special indeed, for all sorts of reasons, and I'm so glad your sister doesn't have cancer.

[MeadMoon]

It sounds like a really useful course and I've only ever seen good reviews of the West Dean courses. I love both those settings Wallace, so neat, and I've not seen a claw setting like that before with the cross-over. Lovely!

[ps_bond]

oh, it was amazing everyone. The info for the course gets taken down the day the course starts. So pretty efficient. I should have saved the pdf, rather than just print it off. Edit, added a link to the next course. Oh, just as a point of note: The mouth blow torches were interesting, I have never used them before and they do take a bit of getting used to. Not good for any asthmatics or if you have a chest infection. You have to take a lot of tools, although Penny does share hers with the group.

Less efficient than you'd think - the link to the next course PDF is a 404 :)
I've only used the Flamefast torches at West Dean; they've got one that runs off a small aquarium pump as well.


these pictures show the two of the three settings I undertook. A basic crown and a contemporary claw - 6mm CZ used.

Both look extremely well executed. I'd love to see more stuff in print on mount making; there's not really all that much around, and they all seem to cover the same things. I think one of the best resources I've got on traditional mounts is Jewellery Manufacture and Repair (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jewellery-Manufacture-Repair-Charles-Jarvis/dp/0719800528) - I think it's better than either Cogswell or Cheadle for traditional mount making.


sorry for not replying sooner. The New Forest has so many trees especially where I was staying that the signal for the internet was patchy.

The rooms at West Dean have pretty good WiFi - but if you had to come all the way over the the NF to get a signal, there may be a problem with your phone - that's a long way from West Dean :D

Wish I'd thought, I could have subbed you a cup of tea on the way back!

[ps_bond]

It sounds like a really useful course and I've only ever seen good reviews of the West Dean courses.

One of the worst courses I did was one on stone setting at West Dean... But I don't think that tutor is there any more.

[MeadMoon]

Oh dear. Sorry to hear that Peter. When/if I can ever afford to do a course there, I'll be sure to check out all the reviews first :)

[Wallace]

One of the worst courses I did was one on stone setting at West Dean... But I don't think that tutor is there any more. well, that is a good thing, I would have hated to come back saying it was totally pants! You have moved on to many things since then.


Less efficient than you'd think - the link to the next course PDF is a 404 :)
I've only used the Flamefast torches at West Dean; they've got one that runs off a small aquarium pump as well.
Both look extremely well executed. I'd love to see more stuff in print on mount making; there's not really all that much around, and they all seem to cover the same things. I think one of the best resources I've got on traditional mounts is Jewellery Manufacture and Repair (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jewellery-Manufacture-Repair-Charles-Jarvis/dp/0719800528) - I think it's better than either Cogswell or Cheadle for traditional mount making.
The rooms at West Dean have pretty good WiFi - but if you had to come all the way over the the NF to get a signal, there may be a problem with your phone - that's a long way from West Dean :D

Wish I'd thought, I could have subbed you a cup of tea on the way back!

Cuppa would have been fab! I stayed in Midhurst, just on the outskirts - Orange and trees never work unless there is some semblance of citrus to drink. EE is not everywhere!

It was cheaper to stay further away, at £75 per night at the College, [petrol, additional tools!!!! and the cost of the course, I needed somewhere that really was more economical.
Do you mean Alan Revere's book? If so, it is very helpful - very clear instructions and ideas.

many thanks for the lovely compliments - it was hard work, but really worth it.

[caroleallen]

I've been twice. The first time I was on my own and stayed on site. The second time I was with Steve (OH) and we booked into a Travelodge but it wasn't the same, so we cut our losses and managed to get a room at West Dean for the rest of the course. I know it's expensive but I don't think you get the full experience unless you stay there.

[Wallace]

I've been twice. The first time I was on my own and stayed on site. The second time I was with Steve (OH) and we booked into a Travelodge but it wasn't the same, so we cut our losses and managed to get a room at West Dean for the rest of the course. I know it's expensive but I don't think you get the full experience unless you stay there.
It was fine, some of the group stayed away or lived close enough -and I may have to pick a season when the sheep are not free roaming!

[ps_bond]

I know it's expensive but I don't think you get the full experience unless you stay there.

Too true. First course I did there I drove back & forth - that's a *long* day, especially as we weren't getting out of the workshop until 10pm.


Cuppa would have been fab! I stayed in Midhurst, just on the outskirts - Orange and trees never work unless there is some semblance of citrus to drink. EE is not everywhere!

I was teasing about the location of the New Forest :)


Do you mean Alan Revere's book? If so, it is very helpful - very clear instructions and ideas.

Professional Jewelry (sic) Making? Not the one I meant, but it is very good - more focussed on proper goldsmithing techniques than mount making (although yes, there is some - particularly the last project in the book).

[Tabby66]

Those settings look great Wallace, I'm glad you enjoyed the course.......I am currently in fair preparation mode, so I will post piccies of my settings (and stones, which will eventually be perfected and then set!!), next week......please remind me if I forget!!.......but here is a link to a cast image of the 'kind-of' setting I am referring to.....http://www.eurofindings.com/Product/3530/H18YT953-18ct-Yellow-Single-Stone-Collet-6-Claw-Round-Cut

[caroleallen]

[QUOTE=ps_bond;57323]


I was teasing about the location of the New Forest :)


I was wondering where the New Forest came into it too!

[Wallace]

I am lucky to remember I live in Wiltshire half the time! I get lost even with a TomTom despite living in this county for the last umpteen years. I was even thrown out of geography classes (sadly, not because I couldn't find them!) but rather my inept ability to navigate a map. On my way to my granddad's once, I ended up nearly at Liverpool and I was meant to be in Derby! It happens. I like staying at home!! hahaha

My late husband had a similar problem in navigating, one year after we had just got married, we nearly ended up being divorced when I was accused of intentionally reading the map incorrectly. When he took over the navigation, the book ended up flying out of the window! :P

I think I may have to switch back to navigating by pubs, I could get anywhere when I used to do it that way, no good if one is on the motorway of course!


reading blindness is so much fun sometimes.

[Gemsetterchris]

oh my finger is sore from using a bullstick!

Could have sneaked in some ball burrs & pin vise..I can't believe they still teach bullsticks in this day & age :eek:
They are pre-historic tools that have no place in your workshop.

[ps_bond]

I can't believe they still teach bullsticks in this day & age :eek:


Tallies with my culture shock at Jura's though.

[Patstone]

I can beat that, my ex husband was interested in treasure hunt type rallying, so we both went on a mapreading course arranged by the motor club he belonged to. It was supposed to be my job to navigate,hence the course. Well after a few days of my ineptitude they threw me off, saying I would be better using a map as toilet paper.



I am lucky to remember I live in Wiltshire half the time! I get lost even with a TomTom despite living in this county for the last umpteen years. I was even thrown out of geography classes (sadly, not because I couldn't find them!) but rather my inept ability to navigate a map. On my way to my granddad's once, I ended up nearly at Liverpool and I was meant to be in Derby! It happens. I like staying at home!! hahaha

My late husband had a similar problem in navigating, one year after we had just got married, we nearly ended up being divorced when I was accused of intentionally reading the map incorrectly. When he took over the navigation, the book ended up flying out of the window! :P

I think I may have to switch back to navigating by pubs, I could get anywhere when I used to do it that way, no good if one is on the motorway of course!


reading blindness is so much fun sometimes.

[Gemsetterchris]

Jura would be abit lost with a traditional bench setup I think :D

[Wallace]

Could have sneaked in some ball burrs & pin vise..I can't believe they still teach bullsticks in this day & age :eek:
They are pre-historic tools that have no place in your workshop.
At least I can still play, erm I mean work, in a power cut. Lol

We were given the opportunity, later on, to use burs after we had practiced with ye olde hand tools.

[Gemsetterchris]

By candlelight? It's all good learning traditional methods but going back to Tudor times is abit much, all very English :D
You'd think study workshops would be abit more equipped these days?
Not necessarily with the latest toys but at least reasonable.
Do I need to set up a "Blaine Lewis"?
Ok, let's stop daydreaming for now :)

[ps_bond]

By candlelight? It's all good learning traditional methods but going back to Tudor times is abit much, all very English :D

We do value the traditional skills and eschew this new-fangled nonsense like electricity :)


You'd think study workshops would be abit more equipped these days?
Not necessarily with the latest toys but at least reasonable.

In the case of West Dean: Let's say the studio was set up 25 years ago. By someone who had retired from jewellery/silversmithing/goldsmithing fulltime. Based around how they were taught...
James would be a good one to chip in on this; there does seem a fair amount of resistance to adopting modern methods in a lot of the traditional skill areas.


Do I need to set up a "Blaine Lewis"?
Ok, let's stop daydreaming for now :)

So, min 3 full sets of scope/benchmate (or Jura's setup)/GRS or Airgraver/reliable micromotor...? Actually, while it sounds quite an outlay, I guess the breakeven point wouldn't be all that bad if you can get the students in. Probably need an extra set on hand to swap out in the event of faults (the kit, not the students).

[Gemsetterchris]

Wonder if there would be some funding available for something like that?
Thing is, the "standard tools" of 25 years ago & how that worker was taught (add another few decades) is old hat.
At the Cass college in the 80's it was the same, but in reality the functioning trade used drills...nothings progressed for students except abroad.
Yes, there are fundamental skills to be learnt the old way, but you don't need to go back to Fred flinstone era.

[Dennis]

You can throw out the flex-shaft as well, while you're at it and use a micromotor. Dennis.

[ps_bond]

There are times when I use both at the same time. :)

[ShinyLauren]

We do value the traditional skills and eschew this new-fangled nonsense like electricity :)



In the case of West Dean: Let's say the studio was set up 25 years ago. By someone who had retired from jewellery/silversmithing/goldsmithing fulltime. Based around how they were taught...
James would be a good one to chip in on this; there does seem a fair amount of resistance to adopting modern methods in a lot of the traditional skill areas.



So, min 3 full sets of scope/benchmate (or Jura's setup)/GRS or Airgraver/reliable micromotor...? Actually, while it sounds quite an outlay, I guess the breakeven point wouldn't be all that bad if you can get the students in. Probably need an extra set on hand to swap out in the event of faults (the kit, not the students).

The guy I did the setting tuition with had the GRS benchmate on each of his benches - I'd never seen it before and now I REALLY want to get the setters package - it made everything so much easier.

He taught me to use a spitstick to bright cut the inside after pushing down the metal - is that an old fashioned thing to do then Chris?

[Gemsetterchris]

Benchmates are superb except a microblock is better for microscope work.
You can use whatever you like to brighten up the inside edge, if it works it works.
If doing a rubover collet, you could get that inside edge (the top surface) nicely cleaned up first..then when pushed over you only need to clean up the outside edge.;)
Hope that makes sense.

[Tabby66]

There are times when I use both at the same time. :)

.........me too, regularly!!

[Gemsetterchris]

You can get half spitsticks (flat one side), both left & right sided for bright cutting..not sure I'd bother with those but I guess they could be useful.
It's just a case of finding or making a tool that gets the result you want.

[Patstone]

Which book is it then Peter, cos I have just ordered the Jewelery Repair one. I wanted a book that showed how to set stones, diagrams etc. and based on what you said about it, I ordered it.


Too true. First course I did there I drove back & forth - that's a *long* day, especially as we weren't getting out of the workshop until 10pm.



I was teasing about the location of the New Forest :)



Professional Jewelry (sic) Making? Not the one I meant, but it is very good - more focussed on proper goldsmithing techniques than mount making (although yes, there is some - particularly the last project in the book).

[ps_bond]

Alan Revere's Professional Jewelry Making - I bought mine from Otto Frei. I don't think any of the UK stockists carry it?
It's a progression of projects, starting from pretty much nothing on skills through to finishing with making a wire cluster ring (lots of solder joints). Each project brings in a new skill, it uses traditional tools and I don't think I've seen anything used that isn't available from the usual UK suppliers.
It's expensive ($80), it's heavy and shipping is a pig, but it's very, very good.

[Wallace]

I got mine from Amazon.com. Beauty of books is they do not incur VAT or import taxes (at the moment) so they do tend to arrive quickly too. My latest one, on the repairs, took less than ten days.

Edit

Just checked amazon out for prices, currently under $50 plus postage (which is subject to the seller, but mine was no more than $15 on top).

[ps_bond]

Thank you for that reminder - as it was part of a larger order, I did get billed VAT & duty; I need to claim that back.

[Patstone]

I just checked Amazon and it is £60 from UK source. Is the one you have called Professional Jewelry Making: A Contemporary Guide to Traditional Jewelry Techniques by Alan Revere but the one I bought was called Traditional jewelry Repair by Alan Revere which is out of the Ark I think, and is of no use to me.

[Wren]

You can throw out the flex-shaft as well, while you're at it and use a micromotor. Dennis.

Hi Dennis

I have looked up micromotors on u tube, there are quite a few different makes , which would you say is a good one? The Foredom brushless one?

JH

[lorraineflee]

Alan Revere's Professional Jewelry Making is available from Amazon.com for £39.58 including postage and handling charges. They have 18 in stock (did have 19 but I bought one!)

[Patstone]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional-Jewelry-Making-Contemporary-Traditional/dp/1929565429/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1373176422&sr=1-2&keywords=Alan+Revere%27s+Professional+Jewelry+Maki ng

Where did you find it because the page I was looking at definately said £60. The Goldsmithing one is cheaper, but I dont think thats the one Peter was talkiing about.

[mizgeorge]

It's on amazon.com not .co.uk Pat

http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Jewelry-Making-Alan-Revere/dp/1929565429/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373177586&sr=8-1&keywords=alan+revere+jewelry+making

[ps_bond]

Goldsmithing is the older version.

[Patstone]

Oh, I see. Never think to buy from .com always .co.uk. Thanks, on my wishlist.