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Truffle & Podge
11-06-2013, 04:26 PM
Ok my little cooks torch has given up the ghost (melted oops) but it lasted enough for only a fiver. It melted as i was trying to get a heavier D shaped wire up to temperature..................it just wasn't up to the job.
I'm still constrained by budget but would appreciate your views on which torch is best, i have looked at this Proxxon one http://www.powertooldirect.co.uk/proxxon_mfbe_microflame_burne-p-78654.html but cousins also has a couple www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/equipment/soldering-flame-torches/soldering-microtorch-solder-tec#select
I don't really understand why the prices differ so much and if there is much difference between the torches and if any of them will do the job............HELP (again, sorry)

Exsecratio
11-06-2013, 04:57 PM
How about a flame polisher Truffs ? not cheap but last a lifetime and can do 1800+ centigrade all day (they run from electricity and split water into Oxygen + Hydrogen)

best wishes

Dave

Truffle & Podge
11-06-2013, 05:31 PM
How about a flame polisher Truffs ? not cheap but last a lifetime and can do 1800+ centigrade all day (they run from electricity and split water into Oxygen + Hydrogen)

best wishes

Dave

I wish!................................. perhaps a tad strong for my little ikea kitchen trolley bench in the corner of my lounge too lol:-O
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Dennis
11-06-2013, 05:49 PM
I don't have one myself, but if you are only going to buy one torch, some people here favour the Nimrod as it can give out plenty of heat when needed. Dennis.

http://www.nimrodeuropedirect.com/?opt=item&id=132

Truffle & Podge
11-06-2013, 06:26 PM
I don't have one myself, but if you are only going to buy one torch, some people here favour the Nimrod as it can give out plenty of heat when needed. Dennis.

http://www.nimrodeuropedirect.com/?opt=item&id=132

What do you use Dennis?
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mizgeorge
11-06-2013, 06:55 PM
I have lots of hand torches (as well as propane and oxy-propane alternatives) as these are what I use the most. For everyday work I like the Proxxon and the Nimrod PT-75. For heavier stuff, the Nimrod 500 is excellent. For more than that, if I want to stay hose-free, I use a Rothenburger top on a MAPP cylinder or an orca adapted to use the same cannister (though this does involves a short length of hose).

The Nimrod / Iroda PT200 is a good cheaper option, but doesn't have as good flow control as the PT 75.

Most microtorches will do the job pretty well - just look for one which is more metal than plastic!

caroleallen
11-06-2013, 07:48 PM
Would any of them be powerful enough to solder a bangle George?

Truffle & Podge
11-06-2013, 08:18 PM
I have lots of hand torches (as well as propane and oxy-propane alternatives) as these are what I use the most. For everyday work I like the Proxxon and the Nimrod PT-75. For heavier stuff, the Nimrod 500 is excellent. For more than that, if I want to stay hose-free, I use a Rothenburger top on a MAPP cylinder or an orca adapted to use the same cannister (though this does involves a short length of hose).

The Nimrod / Iroda PT200 is a good cheaper option, but doesn't have as good flow control as the PT 75.

Most microtorches will do the job pretty well - just look for one which is more metal than plastic!


If you had to pick only one torch from the Nimrod PT-75, the Nimrod 500 and the Proxxon, which would you pick George? I want to be able to tackle this heavier wire but i also want be able to tame it down for more delicate bits...........................to be honest i'm not sure what all the differences are, the torch i had was supposed to reach 1300 but it won't even touch this heavier wire, it is a "cooks" torch though. The trouble i'm having is the thicker wire won't reach temp but the thin sheet i'm soldering to it reaches temp by conduction very quickly so the solder is flowing onto the back of that and not sticking to the heavy wire. I must have tried 25 odd times now in all possible ways and the surfaces have been absolutely spotless, when i tried to flow the solder solely onto the thick wire to then sweat solder, it would not budge and didn't come close flowing despite intense blasting of the wire and ensuring the prep was perfect. This lead me to conclude i just didn't have the power in the flame and to top it off the plastic casing has melted.................eek! TBF it was picked up for 4.99 from home bargains lol ( done the job so far though bless it, feel a bit sorry for it :( )

mizgeorge
11-06-2013, 08:38 PM
Would any of them be powerful enough to solder a bangle George?

No problem with the PT500 - I happily solder 3mm round or 4x2mm rectangular bangles with this. It will also anneal really very heavy pieces of metal, solder copper and melt stuff blithely!

mizgeorge
11-06-2013, 08:40 PM
If you had to pick only one torch from the Nimrod PT-75, the Nimrod 500 and the Proxxon, which would you pick George? I want to be able to tackle this heavier wire but i also want be able to tame it down for more delicate bits...........................to be honest i'm not sure what all the differences are, the torch i had was supposed to reach 1300 but it won't even touch this heavier wire, it is a "cooks" torch though. The trouble i'm having is the thicker wire won't reach temp but the thin sheet i'm soldering to it reaches temp by conduction very quickly so the solder is flowing onto the back of that and not sticking to the heavy wire. I must have tried 25 odd times now in all possible ways and the surfaces have been absolutely spotless, when i tried to flow the solder solely onto the thick wire to then sweat solder, it would not budge and didn't come close flowing despite intense blasting of the wire and ensuring the prep was perfect. This lead me to conclude i just didn't have the power in the flame and to top it off the plastic casing has melted.................eek! TBF it was picked up for 4.99 from home bargains lol ( done the job so far though bless it, feel a bit sorry for it :( )

Tough one. Probably a PT-75, with a second handheld (a cheap PT200 or proxxon is fine) for a bit of extra oomph if I need it. I tend to use whichever one I've just filled and is nearest to hand. Today it was a proxxon and a PT75. The only problem with all of them is that the self-lighting mechanism does eventually fail, so I keep a lighter or sparker to hand just in case.

Exsecratio
11-06-2013, 10:01 PM
i'm not sure what all the differences are, the torch i had was supposed to reach 1300

Burning air (21% Oxygen) a propane / butane or ProButane torch can reach 1970 to 1995 Centigrade but the item you are trying to heat / the torch nozzle / incorrect mix ratios takes some of that heat away leaving you with a useful adiabatic temperature of about 1,000 degrees centigrade. Flame temperature and potential heating temperature are quite different animals.
OxyPropane or OxyHydrogen will reach 2880 centigrade with a sustained heating temperature of 2,000 degrees or so (more than enough to weld Platinum at 1768 degrees).

When a company makes claims about the temperature of non Oxygen based torches they usually refer to the flame temperature and not the potential heating temperature...legal...but a little underhanded ;)

best wishes

Dave

Dennis
11-06-2013, 10:12 PM
What do you use Dennis?X

When my unbranded minitorch began to give trouble, I went for the Proxxon mainly out of confidence in the brand. It is good and sturdy and easy to work with one hand, but not suitable for large items.

George has tried many more torches than I have and I would trust her judgement, Tasha.

Truffle & Podge
12-06-2013, 12:11 AM
ok think i'm settling on the nimrod pt-75 just hoping it has the oomph i need and that it's worth the extra compared to the proxxon, hopefully test driving an orca soon but can see how it would be very useful to have two different types, especially as my scrap pile is growing :) it's getting that fine line between power and delicacy to still be able to solder a lot smaller pieces and jump rings..........a bit of a toughie!
Again you guys are great i loves ya []
ordering tomorrow so if you have any last minute advice please jump in, cripes this is one expensive hobby! better start selling if i can (after assay of course) [-o<
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susieq
12-06-2013, 12:12 AM
Just want to say, you ask such great questions!

Today I have been battling with soldering some 0.5m bezels. In class I have been using a Sievert torch to practice soldering the bezels with no problem (although that was copper); my little cooks torch at home, which should be perfectly okay for the bezels - albeit silver, is turning them an alarming bright day-glow red and I'm having to back off with the heat to avoid melting the setting. No idea why the much more powerful sievert at class is fine, but the handheld at home is threatening to melt.

I think one of the troubles of learning to solder is with the determination of what constitutes "large". Trouble is that it's not until you nearly run your torch out of gas trying to solder something and the solder simply won't run that you begin to wonder whether its the torch or you! Still not worked that one out.

I have read somewhere that soldering is hard until one day it isn't. I'm hoping that day will be sooner rather than later.

Susie

Truffle & Podge
12-06-2013, 12:16 AM
Burning air (21% Oxygen) a propane / butane or ProButane torch can reach 1970 to 1995 Centigrade but the item you are trying to heat / the torch nozzle / incorrect mix ratios takes some of that heat away leaving you with a useful adiabatic temperature of about 1,000 degrees centigrade. Flame temperature and potential heating temperature are quite different animals.
OxyPropane or OxyHydrogen will reach 2880 centigrade with a sustained heating temperature of 2,000 degrees or so (more than enough to weld Platinum at 1768 degrees).

When a company makes claims about the temperature of non Oxygen based torches they usually refer to the flame temperature and not the potential heating temperature...legal...but a little underhanded ;)

best wishes

Dave

as i'm now "truffs" apparently will have to think of a good nick name for you................hmmmm leaning towards "proff" as i barely understand your technical abilities lol, could be worse my 1st thoughts were wavy davy hee hee x

Exsecratio
12-06-2013, 01:11 AM
I get called quite a few things Truffs :) most of them not repeatable much of the time :)

I just have a good memory for facts and figures,(being Autistic does have some benefits although I'm a rubbish dinner guest) I don't really have much of anything in the way of skills like the people here do though :(

best wishes

Dave

Dennis
12-06-2013, 07:23 AM
Today I have been battling with soldering some 0.5m bezels. In class I have been using a Sievert torch to practice soldering the bezels with no problem (although that was copper); my little cooks torch at home, which should be perfectly okay for the bezels - albeit silver, is turning them an alarming bright day-glow red and I'm having to back off with the heat to avoid melting the setting. No idea why the much more powerful sievert at class is fine, but the handheld at home is threatening to melt Susie


The Sievert has a relatively bushy flame, which does not concentrate the heat as much and the size of flame can be reduced. Can't you close down the air hole on you cooks torch a little, to stop it roaring, Susie?

t1ggerk1ns
12-06-2013, 09:44 AM
I have read somewhere that soldering is hard until one day it isn't. I'm hoping that day will be sooner rather than later.

Susie

As an ex (??) electronics engineer, I don't have too much problem with soldering these days, but this is definitely true.

The moment of joy when ones attempts with a circuit board cease to look as if covered in pigeon droppings was tremendous.

ps_bond
12-06-2013, 11:03 AM
I do tend to feel that soldering with an iron (or a hot air pencil) is a wee bit easier than jewellery soldering... Although with the advent of higher density pins on devices (particularly BGAs) the chances of hand-reworking one are diminishing.

t1ggerk1ns
12-06-2013, 11:18 AM
I do tend to feel that soldering with an iron (or a hot air pencil) is a wee bit easier than jewellery soldering... Although with the advent of higher density pins on devices (particularly BGAs) the chances of hand-reworking one are diminishing.

Not so easy as you might think. One of the drawbacks is that unlike jewellery, you are dealing with cheap and inferior products. The copper tracks these days are so paper thin, too much heat and they frizzle up.

But the principle is the same. To apply the correct amount of heat in the right place at the right time, coordinated with the correct application of the correct solder in order that the solder flows to give a neat but strong bond between the surfaces.

Both are, as with a lot of things, mastered through patience and perseverance, and when mastered create a piece of work that can be looked on with a great deal of satisfaction.

ps_bond
12-06-2013, 11:23 AM
Our board layout lot do like to use as thin a layer as they can get away with, but there's invariably a moderate current requirement so - particularly for power plane layers - we tend to spec a decent thickness. Rework with a decent Metcal helps - and TBH I get along better with them than air pencils, although SMDs can still be prone to tombstoning with reel solder.

Truffle & Podge
12-06-2013, 12:07 PM
Just want to say, you ask such great questions!

Today I have been battling with soldering some 0.5m bezels. In class I have been using a Sievert torch to practice soldering the bezels with no problem (although that was copper); my little cooks torch at home, which should be perfectly okay for the bezels - albeit silver, is turning them an alarming bright day-glow red and I'm having to back off with the heat to avoid melting the setting. No idea why the much more powerful sievert at class is fine, but the handheld at home is threatening to melt.

I think one of the troubles of learning to solder is with the determination of what constitutes "large". Trouble is that it's not until you nearly run your torch out of gas trying to solder something and the solder simply won't run that you begin to wonder whether its the torch or you! Still not worked that one out.

I have read somewhere that soldering is hard until one day it isn't. I'm hoping that day will be sooner rather than later.

Susie

Thanks Susie,
I think its because i am so utterly bewildered lol. Totally agree with your statement about what constitutes large as i tend to work with long thin pieces so working out how far along i have to heat is a nightmare (i know you are supposed to heat the whole piece up but i have found that when you have a 30cm long stretch of hammered wire it's really not necessary and virtually impossible really) I too am praying that eureka day is not far away!

ps_bond
12-06-2013, 12:46 PM
I've got a PT75 which I've used a fair amount over the past 6 months; it's fantastically quick for chain links, but there's no way I'd have tried it on the 550x20x0.8mm bangle I soldered the other day - the Sievert might have been the most sensible choice for that, although I used the Little Torch with a #7 tip. Having soldering blocks piled up to reflect heat back helps a lot.

Truffle & Podge
12-06-2013, 04:34 PM
ordered a T-75 this morning direct from nimrod, should be here tomorrow fingers crossed, tbh i don't do much edge to edge seam soldering it's more piece on piece and Neil at nimrod assured me the T-75 was the best option......................if it don't work guess it will have to go back lol
wish me luck as the rage is boiling and it won't take much to cause an eruption haha
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