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Exsecratio
06-06-2013, 05:05 PM
Just wondering if this is done very much in the trade using Lasers?

Looking at some of the hand sawn pieces here the amount of work involved must be huge! so it got me to thinking if anybody uses a laser to do it?

best wishes

Dave

Goldsmith
06-06-2013, 05:38 PM
Hi Dave,

Do you have experience of laser cutting?
If so can you give me an idea of the work and costs involved in writing a program for the laser and then to cut this pattern out of a 1mm. thick, pre shaped silver bowl. Bear in mind that the cost would be for only one item only and not dozens.

James

48194818

Exsecratio
06-06-2013, 07:47 PM
Hiya James,

A multi direction curved item like that would require a bit of setting up (I don't do curved items,past cylinders etc)

As a general item though I can give you some idea of what would be involved in a flat version.

The design would be a mirror / 6 x repeat so pretty quick to draw in a cad package (only half of one sixth would be required).

From there the file is saved as a DXF format.

The DXF is imported into the lasers software control program and processed (all automatic) and would take maybe 15 seconds for the software to generate a laser ready file.

Cutting 1mm silver sheet would require one of the following types of laser:

CO2 Glass tube 150 watt with Oxygen assist,

CO2 Glass tube 200 watt without Oxygen assist,

Fiber 50 watt with no assist gas,

75 Watt YAG with no assist gas,

Pretty much any machine equipped with the above would do the job as a flat.

Run time? Under a minute or so.

Run cost? (not including machine cost just processing actual cost) maybe £1.50 to £2.00,

A machine from around £9k up would do that as a flat, machines from around £60k upwards could do it as a bowl.

As an example, I just did the following item after starting to write this post, from first thought to finished item including drawing ...10 minutes.(it's 120mm diameter)

4820

The only people who will expound how expensive laser cutting is are the ones trying to see you something :)

best wishes

Dave

Goldsmith
06-06-2013, 08:20 PM
Very interesting Dave thanks for your expertise and info, when my customer enquired about laser cutting these types of bowls three years ago, he was quoted £1200 per bowl. But he was told that the company's laser cutter could not cut the sharp interior points easily and that another machine may be required. He was advised to try another company who used German computer operated router type cutters rather than lasers.

I am glad that I am not chasing work these days as I have no intension of competing with these machines, if that's what people want then let them get on with it. I am getting to old to worry about competing for new work.

Cheers, James

This was one of my flat piercings, 300mm.square.

4821

Exsecratio
06-06-2013, 09:15 PM
Hiya James,

3 years ago that would have been around the figure to be expected, over the last three years the bottom fell out of the laser cutting market as machines got cheaper and cheaper (dropping from several million to £200,000 range) While 200K is still a lot more than many people pay for a house they are now in the land of smaller businesses and not so much the realms of the ultra big companies. Now homebrew small form factor lasers can be had for as little as £450 and require no skill to operate.

That piercing of yours is something I could only ever hope to do by hand (I can still hand scrape a surface plate and keep one at work just to remind me and keep my hand in), one of my guys asked me the other day "What you doing it like that for Dave? I'll chuck it in the surface grinder for you if you like?",

Lasers are great and they make me good money (and I always try to remember I'm very lucky considering the current economic climate) but I do wonder at what cost long term.

The following video is real time


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HRPMzx5fLE

There are 81,000 individual lines in the Mayan Calendar used in the video. Imagine doing that with a Graver

best wishes

Dave

Pedro
12-06-2013, 10:02 PM
Hi Dave,

Do you have experience of laser cutting?
If so can you give me an idea of the work and costs involved in writing a program for the laser and then to cut this pattern out of a 1mm. thick, pre shaped silver bowl. Bear in mind that the cost would be for only one item only and not dozens.

James

48194818

Very nice bit of piercing James, Exsecratio I feel I know you from somewhere:~: how Spooky is that !.

Have you thought about going down the road of peircing/lasercutting the sheet and then in an anealed state form the bowl in a press?. You would have to allow for elongation and making sure the sheet is correctly located on the bottom die and braced as it first makes contact with the former.

In my silversmithing day's I used a similiar technique for forming 0.8mm silver using just a fly press and some foam rubber sheet but it could sometimes move the silver before it formed.

Later when I went into engineering I would prove two part conforming cutting press dies on a power press, much smoother and reliable but hardly something you can fit in your garden shed !.

For one off's or short run's I would always go for hand formed,pierced and polished silver work, it gives you more satisfaction during the making and makes it more unique to the buyer.

Peter

caroleallen
12-06-2013, 10:46 PM
That was an amazing video Dave.

I have quite a lot of my stuff cut out by laser. I couldn't run my business if I cut everything out by hand.

caroleallen
12-06-2013, 10:51 PM
Your scroll piece looks very smooth Dave. The pieces I have lasered always have a rough raised bit around the edges which I have to file off.

Anna Wales
13-06-2013, 08:32 AM
I have to admit to viewing these whizz-bang machines with really mixed feelings mostly negative! Surely they are creating a generation of programmers and assemblers rather than skilled metalworkers? At events I attend I have a step by step of a cross pendant that I made. A chap came over and said that he could cut it all out for me with his machine from China and would I be interested in some quotes. I think he missed the irony when I asked him where he felt that left me and my skills!

Goldsmith
13-06-2013, 08:39 AM
Very nice bit of piercing James, Exsecratio I feel I know you from somewhere:~: how Spooky is that !.

Have you thought about going down the road of peircing/lasercutting the sheet and then in an anealed state form the bowl in a press?. You would have to allow for elongation and making sure the sheet is correctly located on the bottom die and braced as it first makes contact with the former.

In my silversmithing day's I used a similiar technique for forming 0.8mm silver using just a fly press and some foam rubber sheet but it could sometimes move the silver before it formed.

Later when I went into engineering I would prove two part conforming cutting press dies on a power press, much smoother and reliable but hardly something you can fit in your garden shed !.

For one off's or short run's I would always go for hand formed,pierced and polished silver work, it gives you more satisfaction during the making and makes it more unique to the buyer.

Peter

Thanks for your comment on my piercing Peter. I am getting a bit old now for adapting to modern methods of making, I like working with my hands and hand tools. I am not intending competing against machine made items.

James

Exsecratio
13-06-2013, 08:50 AM
Hey Peter, yup it's me :)

I needed something more taxing than chopping up MDF and answering broken laser questions all day, it was your cufflinks you posted on the laserscript forums that made me look at jewellery (Plus I'd really like to develop a skill, lasers don't need skill just patience and a good memory)

Hi Carol,

Laser cutting some metals like silver require a lot of power, some smaller machines will do it with high power CO2 lasers in them but the only way to get decent quality with no raising or dross is to use a YAG or Fiber laser with high pressure Nitrogen gas pumped into the cut. It's more expensive to do that way but is the only way to get decent quality.
Different lasers have different properties, a machine that will cut 20mm thick acrylic may not cut metal at all, a machine that flys through metal may not even scorch wood and so on, it's all to do with wavelength and power.The individual cost of machines (especially metal cutters) can be very high so people who have maybe only one or two types will try to diversify into new markets without realising the laser they have isn't always suited to what they are trying to do.

best wishes

Dave

ps_bond
13-06-2013, 09:00 AM
Surely they are creating a generation of programmers and assemblers rather than skilled metalworkers?

I still think I could sit any of my colleagues down in front of a 3d CAD package and have them design a ring - but it won't have any of the design flair that a skilled bench jeweller would put into it.


A chap came over and said that he could cut it all out for me with his machine from China and would I be interested in some quotes. I think he missed the irony when I asked him where he felt that left me and my skills!

I've got a couple of bits of work in at the moment - both are cast semi-set mounts, one's from Domino, the other from China. When they're done I'll put some pictures up, they provide a really thorough reinforcement of my belief that the Chinese cast stuff can't hold a candle. Yes, they're cheap - but the word is "cheap", not inexpensive.

caroleallen
13-06-2013, 12:47 PM
I know I've sold my soul by mass producing but the money's good. By having some things laser cut, it gives me time to be more creative with other stuff. Most of the things I get laser cut are just components of pieces. If I cut everything out by hand I'd never get time to sleep. As it is, I normally work 12 hour days. I'd hate to never use my skills but I think a little help here and there is good. Bring it on, I say!

ps_bond
13-06-2013, 01:02 PM
I know I've sold my soul by mass producing but the money's good.

It's a trend that's been around a while now :)
James, didn't you blank pieces with a flypress?

Anna Wales
13-06-2013, 01:40 PM
I know I've sold my soul by mass producing but the money's good. By having some things laser cut, it gives me time to be more creative with other stuff. Most of the things I get laser cut are just components of pieces. If I cut everything out by hand I'd never get time to sleep. As it is, I normally work 12 hour days. I'd hate to never use my skills but I think a little help here and there is good. Bring it on, I say!

I don't think you've sold your soul Carole. I rely on castings heavily and as you say,the money's good. Having put the time and effort into making the first one I feel I can justify using them. I think the point I was trying to make was maybe the trend to there being no " hands on " skill involved just clever machine operators.

Goldsmith
13-06-2013, 01:41 PM
It's a trend that's been around a while now :)
James, didn't you blank pieces with a flypress?

Peter, In the way distant past I used flypresses when making multiples of badgework, I only blanked out and domed discs for badge backings, the actual badges were pressings supplied to me by my customer. I sold my best Norton flypress about ten years ago, I only have a small one now, which is never used. I do use a small bench mounted arbor press for some shaping jobs. I have now stopped taking on commissions and only help friends out when asked, mostly with antique restorations.

James

caroleallen
13-06-2013, 04:19 PM
Between us today, my assistant Danielle and I made:

8 heart pendants with gold centred flowers - hearts cut with heart cutter, flowers laser cut, gold pen plating

9 enamelled disc earrings and pendants - disc cutters

1 engraved ring - casting and computerised engraving

2 engraved bangles - bangles made by hand with laser cut flower and laser cut gold heart, computerised engraving

3 pairs enamelled cufflinks - cast

3 pairs enamelled earrings - cast

If I had to make all that from scratch, I'd still be making them next week. I do agree though Anna, I hate the thought that 3d printers will take over in the future.

Exsecratio
13-06-2013, 04:55 PM
I hate the thought that 3d printers will take over in the future.

I fully agree even though my day job involves using the latest technology, even now there are moves for metal loaded UV resins for 3d printers...give it a few years and any skills I had as an engineer will be worthless :(

Lasers are fast and accurate but I'm due to have a ring made for my Wife for putting up with me and there's no way I'll be looking for some teccy based stuff, I'll be looking round here at having one handmade by one of you CraftsPeople. A handmade ring for my Wife has more "Soul" than mass produced laser made stuff.

best wishes

Dave

josef1
13-06-2013, 05:51 PM
I guess it all depends on what you are making and how you are doing it, people seem to have an opinion without ever trying to use it, I make bespoke pieces, one at a time using Cad, I can produce things I could of never of dreamed of making without it. I design, mill, cast, build, set and finish everything myself in my little workshop with the radio on and a nice cup of tea, if using this somehow me gives them less soul then so be it, I'm ginger anyway so not really sure what soul is anyway ;-).

Dennis
13-06-2013, 05:57 PM
Between us today, my assistant Danielle and I made:etc.....

Headline from today's times ;)

ps_bond
13-06-2013, 06:36 PM
I fully agree even though my day job involves using the latest technology, even now there are moves for metal loaded UV resins for 3d printers...give it a few years and any skills I had as an engineer will be worthless :(

You say that, but someone has to know the first principles regardless. If the sole understanding is to plug in the numbers and get something out, there's a limited knowledge of the materials & limitations - when I did aero eng, we'd already lost forging as a prototyping method; we did cover design for manufacture, which is where the "proper" skills came in (had to spend time on lathes to do it too). And... RP is still best suited to prototyping, not mass production and will be for some time to come.


Lasers are fast and accurate but I'm due to have a ring made for my Wife for putting up with me and there's no way I'll be looking for some teccy based stuff, I'll be looking round here at having one handmade by one of you CraftsPeople. A handmade ring for my Wife has more "Soul" than mass produced laser made stuff.

Well, *clearly* you need someone local to you :D

ps_bond
13-06-2013, 06:40 PM
I guess it all depends on what you are making and how you are doing it, people seem to have an opinion without ever trying to use it, I make bespoke pieces, one at a time using Cad, I can produce things I could of never of dreamed of making without it.

I think I'll be making the jump in the next month or so - initially just to generate renderings for clients (while I get used to the package), but later I'll look at CAM as well. The idea is to augment the benchwork rather than replace it...

Exsecratio
13-06-2013, 06:53 PM
Well, *clearly* you need someone local to you

I think we may have eaten some of the same dirt Peter so Romsey will indeed be my first port of call ;)

best wishes

Dave

Exsecratio
13-06-2013, 06:57 PM
I design, mill, cast, build, set and finish everything myself in my little workshop with the radio on and a nice cup of tea,

See that's what I call a skill, something sadly my day job doesn't need :(

Maybe it's just a love of hand crafted items and not commercial realism that makes me feel this way.

Or maybe I'm getting old :)

best wishes

Dave

caroleallen
13-06-2013, 07:03 PM
Headline from today's times ;)

Hmmm, what are you trying to say Dennis? :)

medusa
13-06-2013, 07:39 PM
I know I've sold my soul by mass producing but the money's good. By having some things laser cut, it gives me time to be more creative with other stuff. Most of the things I get laser cut are just components of pieces. If I cut everything out by hand I'd never get time to sleep. As it is, I normally work 12 hour days. I'd hate to never use my skills but I think a little help here and there is good. Bring it on, I say!

nah, selling your soul is outsourcing all your designs to factories in the far east to be produced in your name. I think it is really easy for hobbyists or jewellery artists to be sniffy about using castings, wax sintering, CAD and other technology, but they are tools only and it allows artisans to actually make a living out of making jewellery which is a good thing.

Dennis
13-06-2013, 09:12 PM
Hmmm, what are you trying to say Dennis? :)

I'd quite like the term silver slogger, as inadvertently coined by the Times, applied to me. More fun than jeweller. But I don't think they'd accept it at IJL.

ShinyLauren
14-06-2013, 09:46 AM
I know I've sold my soul by mass producing but the money's good. By having some things laser cut, it gives me time to be more creative with other stuff. Most of the things I get laser cut are just components of pieces. If I cut everything out by hand I'd never get time to sleep. As it is, I normally work 12 hour days. I'd hate to never use my skills but I think a little help here and there is good. Bring it on, I say!

Carole, who do you use for laser cutting? And how thick can the silver sheet be? I have a design that I've been dithering about casting, but perhaps laser cutting might be a better option.

fay144
14-06-2013, 12:27 PM
Personally, I find the use of new technologies in jewellery making quite exciting. Everyone loves using rotary tools for polishing rather than going through all the grades with paper since it is so much faster. I don't see it as being any different.

I think the main skill we have is in the design of our jewellery. Yes, the manufacturing is very important and highly skilled, but if there are time-saving alternative ways to get the same result, then why not? Just because doing some tasks on a computer makes it more accessible, it doesn't mean that less skill is required to design the jewellery in the first place.

But then I would say that - piercing is my least enjoyed task!

Patstone
14-06-2013, 01:13 PM
Hear hear, I hate it too. Wouldnt be so bad if I could cut a straight line.

mizgeorge
14-06-2013, 01:28 PM
I love piercing :)

I think there's a difference here between the studio jeweller, or designer maker, and the technologically skilled designer. However, I think for the latter to be really good, they need to have the skills of the former - I've seen a lot of lovely designs created with clever software that in reality won't ever work as a finished piece - which could, a lot of the time, be avoided if the designer had a better understanding of traditional skills. I think the two can be complimentary, but as in so many areas, it's a great shame if the skilled artisan gets lost along the way.

Goldsmith
14-06-2013, 02:55 PM
I agree with what George has said about the differing skills.
I am not a jeweller so most of my work in the past has been one offs, of objet d-art and made from designs that were life size, hand drawn and hand painted. These painted designs had to be of a quality suitable to submit to possible customers.

James

caroleallen
14-06-2013, 04:21 PM
There's obviously a huge difference between most of what I make which is affordable and the top end stuff that James made. If I was selling something for thousands, it would all be hand pierced as that's what the customer would expect. Indeed when I make engagement rings, they're all done by hand and I charge accordingly.

Lauren - I use John Robinson from L4 Laser for my lasering stuff. I've always been happy with the service and he's usually really quick. This is his number 0116 283 3400

Anna Wales
14-06-2013, 06:41 PM
I agree with what George has said about the differing skills.
I am not a jeweller so most of my work in the past has been one offs, of objet d-art and made from designs that were life size, hand drawn and hand painted. These painted designs had to be of a quality suitable to submit to possible customers.

James

May we see some of them James?

Goldsmith
14-06-2013, 07:24 PM
May we see some of them James?

Here are a couple of designs and the finished pieces Anna. They were not my designs and as you will see it was up to me to turn the designer's original idea into makeable items.

James

48514852

Anna Wales
14-06-2013, 07:45 PM
Thank you for showing these, to see the designs brought to life is so interesting from a making point of view. They are truly stunning.

Goldsmith
14-06-2013, 08:03 PM
Thank you for showing these, to see the designs brought to life is so interesting from a making point of view. They are truly stunning.

Thank you Anna, these couple of pics show the egg in bits,

James

48534854

Anna Wales
14-06-2013, 08:20 PM
I could look at these all night! How long did the piece take you? Guessing and probably totally incorrect but is the base rock crystal or glass?

Goldsmith
15-06-2013, 07:22 AM
I could look at these all night! How long did the piece take you? Guessing and probably totally incorrect but is the base rock crystal or glass?

This Orchid egg took me six weeks to make, the single orchid fits inside the egg as it's surprise. Both bases are carved rock crystal, the set stones are all diamonds and the 18ct. gold weight was 410 grams, the enamelling was done by Kempson Mauger and the designer was Susan K McMeekin.

James

Patstone
15-06-2013, 08:28 AM
While on the subject of piercing, has anyone looked at the Cooksons Knowledgebase on what saw blade to use for which thickness of material. Either I have misinterpreted their chart or they have made a mistake. They list Grade 3 as Grade 3 and say 16 teeth per cm, then further down they have listed Grade 3/0 and they have 25 teeth per cm. Is there a difference in the sizing or is it just to confuse people like me.

Goldsmith
15-06-2013, 08:45 AM
While on the subject of piercing, has anyone looked at the Cooksons Knowledgebase on what saw blade to use for which thickness of material. Either I have misinterpreted their chart or they have made a mistake. They list Grade 3 as Grade 3 and say 16 teeth per cm, then further down they have listed Grade 3/0 and they have 25 teeth per cm. Is there a difference in the sizing or is it just to confuse people like me.

Pat, the sizes of piercing saw blades can be confusing, for easy reference, Grade 8/0 is the smallest, then the saws get larger as the numbers decrease up to Grade 0 or as some call it 1/0. In the past saw blades were numbered on their packets with just zeros, such as 0-00-000-0000-00000-000000 and onwards, these sizes refer to 1/0-2/0-3/0-4/0-5/0-and 6/0.
( I use 6/0-4/0-3/0-2/0-0 ) Then after size 0, the blades get larger and they change the size references to single numbers such as Grades 1-2-3. I have rarely used a saw blade larger than Grade 2. unless piercing thicker plastics or wood. For most jobs I use sizes 2/0,3/0 and4/0, usually for piercing metals 0.4mm. up to 1.5mm. thick.

I hope this makes sense:-)
James

solitarysmagick
15-06-2013, 09:07 AM
Ooh thank you for that explanation James, I always get confused about saw blade sizes!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Patstone
15-06-2013, 09:09 AM
Well it makes more sense than Cooksons guide. So for 0.60mm - 1.50mm a grade 3/0 would probably be ok (I hate piercing and do as little as I can get away with) I cut silver wire which is a bit thicker, about 3mm round sometimes when I make rings, but on the whole I tend to use snippers and file, rather than saw. I am sure if I practiced I would be ok, but when I saw I seem to spend more time straightening it up after than I do when I use snippers.
P.S I dont like polishing either unless its mechanical. Love designing and making, and seeing the finished product, just dont like the bits in between.

Goldsmith
15-06-2013, 09:55 AM
Well it makes more sense than Cooksons guide. So for 0.60mm - 1.50mm a grade 3/0 would probably be ok (I hate piercing and do as little as I can get away with) I cut silver wire which is a bit thicker, about 3mm round sometimes when I make rings, but on the whole I tend to use snippers and file, rather than saw. I am sure if I practiced I would be ok, but when I saw I seem to spend more time straightening it up after than I do when I use snippers.
P.S I dont like polishing either unless its mechanical. Love designing and making, and seeing the finished product, just dont like the bits in between.

When cutting wires I use whatever blade is in the nearest available sawframe, yes a 3/0 saw blade is a good mid size if you are not into fine detailed piercing. My daughter phoned me wanting a quick birthday present for one of her friends a couple of weeks ago, so I spent an hour making this letter R pendant, I pierced it from 1.2 mm. thick silver sheet and used a 3/0 size saw blade.

James

48564857

mizgeorge
15-06-2013, 10:53 AM
I posted this chart some time ago, but the link seems not to be working any more (along with a lot of others in the technical section)

This is an imperial version - I have got a metric one somethere, but I'm not sure where!

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s76/mizgeorge/bladesizes.jpg (http://s149.photobucket.com/user/mizgeorge/media/bladesizes.jpg.html)

ShinyLauren
15-06-2013, 11:04 AM
Piercing is one of my favourite things to do. I could happily stick a DVD box set on in my workshop and pierce things all weekend! Sadly, like Carole, the amount I'd have to charge to hand pierce everything would be unrealstic, so I do sometimes pierce out originals and have them cast.

I favour 4/0 and 6/0 blades, but that's because I like to do fiddly things.

Goldsmith
15-06-2013, 11:15 AM
Just out of interest or for history, this is a wrapper from some of my oldest stock of 8/0 size saw blades. It shows how they originally showed the size 8/0 with a row of eight 0s.

James

4858

Truffle & Podge
15-06-2013, 12:11 PM
Just discovered the delights of 6/0, so smooth and clean on 0.5 sheet no tidying needed. Was like a hot knife through butter, think i got my flow on lol. Also swapped from beeswax to 3 in 1.........niceeeeeeee

Truffle & Podge
15-06-2013, 12:20 PM
I assume you are just cradling the saw handle Pat? it needs no pressure at all really, just draw the whole of the blade through up and down rhythmically and gently, the blade does the work not you, you just guide it. Must admit sometimes if i haven't pierced for a few days i have to concentrate on not gripping the handle and force my hand to relax. when it flows there is nothing more satisfying. Using the thinnest blade you can get away with for the sheet gauge also helps. Honestly one day it will just click and you will love it!. Just hoping for the day when that happens in soldering for me lol
X

Patstone
15-06-2013, 01:04 PM
Just read that again slowly, am I correct in the interpretation please. If you wrote a zero in the middle of a piece of paper as:-

Finest .................................................. .................................................. ...................Coarsest

8/0 7/0 6/0 5/0 4/0 3/0 2/0 1/0 0 then 1 2 3 4 5 6

are 1 - 6 the same length as the others, just coarser blades and possibly a bit thicker. I have some zero ones that you recommended to saw the stainless steel to make the clamps with. The 2/0 blades that I have seem quite a lot finer than the ones I have been using (the ones I inherited from a lady that stopped making silver jewellery, but hers were a lot chunkier than mine, most of her rings are 2.50mm thick or more, most of them pierced with a design.



Pat, the sizes of piercing saw blades can be confusing, for easy reference, Grade 8/0 is the smallest, then the saws get larger as the numbers decrease up to Grade 0 or as some call it 1/0. In the past saw blades were numbered on their packets with just zeros, such as 0-00-000-0000-00000-000000 and onwards, these sizes refer to 1/0-2/0-3/0-4/0-5/0-and 6/0.
( I use 6/0-4/0-3/0-2/0-0 ) Then after size 0, the blades get larger and they change the size references to single numbers such as Grades 1-2-3. I have rarely used a saw blade larger than Grade 2. unless piercing thicker plastics or wood. For most jobs I use sizes 2/0,3/0 and4/0, usually for piercing metals 0.4mm. up to 1.5mm. thick.

I hope this makes sense:-)
James

Goldsmith
15-06-2013, 01:19 PM
Just read that again slowly, am I correct in the interpretation please. If you wrote a zero in the middle of a piece of paper as:-

Finest .................................................. .................................................. ...................Coarsest

8/0 7/0 6/0 5/0 4/0 3/0 2/0 1/0 0 then 1 2 3 4 5 6

are 1 - 6 the same length as the others, just coarser blades and possibly a bit thicker. I have some zero ones that you recommended to saw the stainless steel to make the clamps with. The 2/0 blades that I have seem quite a lot finer than the ones I have been using (the ones I inherited from a lady that stopped making silver jewellery, but hers were a lot chunkier than mine, most of her rings are 2.50mm thick or more, most of them pierced with a design.


Yes Pat the No.8/0 is the finest and the No.6 is the coarsest. During my 51 years career I have pieced most shapes and sizes and have never used a saw blade thicker than a No.3.
One tip about saw blade sizes is that you can saw most thicknesses with many size saws, sometimes I will pierce large shapes using a thick saw and then tidy up the sharp internal angles with a smaller blade. Using too small a blade lengthens the piercing time and the blade can sometimes fail to saw straight.

James

Patstone
15-06-2013, 02:29 PM
Well I still think its a stupid way of sizing something, but glad you have explained it as at least now I know what I should be using. Thanks for explaining it.

Anna Wales
15-06-2013, 04:44 PM
I've always used 4/0 for everything. Mostly piercing but also for cutting wire too. I only use snips for cutting solder pallions. I suppose it's what you get used to and I find it quicker to use the saw than swap to something else.

This piece ( approx 1") has the closest lines I've ever done just about the thickness of the blade(or a smidge more) in places.
4859


Thank you for the details of the orchid egg James. Gold weight is eye-watering !

caroleallen
15-06-2013, 07:38 PM
That's really good work Anna.

susieq
15-06-2013, 08:42 PM
That's beautiful Anna. How thick was the silver sheet?

Susie

Anna Wales
15-06-2013, 09:15 PM
That's really good work Anna.
Thanks Carole. I think I was just playing silly beggars and wanted to see how close I could get the lines.


That's beautiful Anna. How thick was the silver sheet?

Susie

Thanks Susie. It was made out of 2 layers of 14 gauge sheet ( not sure of the metric size) one for the pattern and one as the backing plate to allow me to enamel it. It looks nice with royal blue enamel.

Patstone
16-06-2013, 05:42 PM
Anna that is beautiful, even if I could do something like that, my patience would run out after the first cut. How do you start a design like that, and how do you know where to start your pattern.

Anna Wales
16-06-2013, 08:02 PM
Anna that is beautiful, even if I could do something like that, my patience would run out after the first cut. How do you start a design like that, and how do you know where to start your pattern.

Thank you Pat. It's not my design, it's from a very similar one from the Book of Kells. Most of my designs come from old knotwork panels, standing crosses etc.

Patstone
18-06-2013, 07:36 AM
Its still very clever stuff.

caroleallen
18-06-2013, 08:03 AM
Anna, do you also make those lovely felted pieces?

Anna Wales
18-06-2013, 08:37 AM
Its still very clever stuff.

Thanks Pat.


Anna, do you also make those lovely felted pieces?

Not quite sure what you mean Carole.