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View Full Version : Making a basic ring in CAD



josef1
27-05-2013, 07:39 PM
A short video I did a while back of making a basic ring in Rhino Cad hope its of use to someone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB3I9nkR1XU

Exsecratio
28-05-2013, 02:10 AM
Nice work Josef :)

best wishes

Dave

caroleallen
28-05-2013, 07:30 AM
Thanks for posting that Josef. I think it's unlikely that I'll ever use CAD as my poor little brain isn't made that way, but it doesn't stop me admiring other people's cleverness.

Patstone
28-05-2013, 07:55 AM
Thats clever stuff, just one question when you have got a CAD type drawing of that nature, what do you do with it. Speaking personally how does it make you cut the metal any straighter. I have in the past done a pattern of what I want to cut and stuck it on the silver and cut around it, and it still didnt work right even though it did with the paper before I put it on the silver.

caroleallen
28-05-2013, 08:05 AM
It's used for casting Pat.

Patstone
28-05-2013, 08:06 AM
Oooooh, never thought about that. Doh !!!!! So just guessing now, they email the CAD picture file to the casters and they mechanically make the mould direct from the file.


It's used for casting Pat.

josef1
28-05-2013, 09:01 AM
Its not really clever,just what I choose to learn I didn't have a clue at first !, I wish I had even half of the metal smithing skills I have seen on the forum.
Patstone, if you think of the picture as a sort of map for the computer, its made up lots and lots of points, each point has a different address or place in 'virtual space' that's calculated by the computer. So even though its just a picture it has the information contained in it to reproduce itself in real life, its sort of like a little an ordnance survey map with points for North south East and West and also height information (like the mountains on the OS map), To take advantage of this you would need to send the information contained in the picture as a computer file to a CNC milling machine or a 3D printer this could then reproduce the ring exactly as you see it on the screen usually in wax or resin this can then be cast in metal. Unfortunately all this technology does not make me cut straighter with a saw either its just that I don't have to as much now ;-)

Patstone
28-05-2013, 11:49 AM
My job before I retired was to do "take off's" from plans for flooring, normally in big hotels and blocks of very upmarket apartments to start with it was all manual, pencil and scale rule, then they got a computer to do it, which I had to pick up as best as I could as the training had been given to the chap I replaced and boss too tight to pay again. Anyway I mastered it and it was a brilliant set-up, all done with a digiboard and mouse, but it worked out the most economical way to lay flooring and of course the pile and pattern of the flooring had to be calculated too, so a big time saver. Trouble was with the fitters, we gave them a plan of how the pieces should be cut, bearing in mind that most of them had been floorlaying for years so mostly the plans went out of the window as soon as they left the yard. Bonus was if there wasnt enough because they had laid it incorrectly, we could argue that there was if they had cut it according to the plan.



Its not really clever,just what I choose to learn I didn't have a clue at first !, I wish I had even half of the metal smithing skills I have seen on the forum.
Patstone, if you think of the picture as a sort of map for the computer, its made up lots and lots of points, each point has a different address or place in 'virtual space' that's calculated by the computer. So even though its just a picture it has the information contained in it to reproduce itself in real life, its sort of like a little an ordnance survey map with points for North south East and West and also height information (like the mountains on the OS map), To take advantage of this you would need to send the information contained in the picture as a computer file to a CNC milling machine or a 3D printer this could then reproduce the ring exactly as you see it on the screen usually in wax or resin this can then be cast in metal. Unfortunately all this technology does not make me cut straighter with a saw either its just that I don't have to as much now ;-)

fay144
28-05-2013, 12:32 PM
Very cool! Thanks for sharing. If you don't mind me asking - how much would a rapid prototyping company charge to create the wax of something like this, roughly?

Exsecratio
28-05-2013, 02:38 PM
Hiya Fay,

I'm not sure about the Solidscape machines but my ZCorp 650's build at 28mm height per hour maximum over a 100mm x 100mm square. I understand they are comparable to the Solidscape T76 series performance wise but cannot use wax as a binder (they work a slightly different way) The Solidscape machines have a resolution of around 4x better than the Zcorp so its likely to achieve the same height will take around 4 x longer.
More than one item can be printed at the same time, if the job was say a ring then 20 of them could be set to print and the machine left running (on one platter it takes the same time to print 20 as it does one that takes up the same area) they are designed to be left running for cycle times up to 72 hours maximum so that will give you some idea of build time.

Cost wise, I guess it depends on the company, both machines have the same area price tag at around £46,000 to buy.

best wishes

Dave

ps_bond
28-05-2013, 03:44 PM
Just been reading around Solidworks' 3Z Studio. They've come down a lot - looks like the price is now circa £26k, which is - while still a lot for most individual jewellers - getting down to an attainable level. Heck, if people are prepared to spend up to £5k for a domestic low-res 3d printer that only does PLA & ABS, then that's comparable.

I'm still inclined towards the opinion that for smallish volume work it's better to send a file to a casting house who have the facility than it is to print the wax & post it; the opportunities for things going wrong seem fewer.

Besides, I tend to upset the RepRap crowd with 2 questions - a) why would you want to print that and b) wouldn't it be better to make that with more traditional subtractive techniques? :)

Victoria
28-05-2013, 05:17 PM
Thanks Josef, you're brilliant! I've been wanting to have a go at CAD for ages. Tried teaching myself Google Sketch Up and didn't get very far so this will be really helpful! Do you know if there's a free version of Rhino, or if the functionality is similar to that in something like Sketch Up?
Cheers
Victoria

josef1
28-05-2013, 05:56 PM
This is a link to the Free Trial of Rhino 5 its good for 25 saves (so don't save anything until you get it sussed!!) I hope its ok to post the link. Not sure about google sketch up similarities. I've not really used it but there are loads of stuff on youtube about making jewellery with rhino

http://www.rhino3d.com/download

Exsecratio
28-05-2013, 06:33 PM
I tend to agree Peter,

Rep-rap stuff is on the whole layered rubbish, sadly so are most of the affordable 3D printers.The material technology just isn't there yet for heated extrusion printing. The Z-Corp was expensive but a requirement for some of the work I have to do so I bit the bullet and went out and got one.
CUfusion is slowly getting into the markets (specially in jewellery) but even that has some big drawbacks :( laser sintering is also coming down in cost.
Much like the engineering trade the new technology will slowly devalue the work of the real craftsmen....when was the last time anybody hand scraped a surface plate :(
In the firearms world most of the "handmade" stuff now trades on a name rather than on quality (Purdey,Boss, H&H) when in reality their actual mechanical quality is far worse than the mass produced machine made stuff.

On the CAD side, sketchup is ok ish, quite a few of my customers use it but the drawings it produces do need quite a lot of work when they send them in, Rhino is probably the best value of all the 3D packages as many of the plugins are open source, Solidworks is usually what I end up having to use for collision detection and some of the other functions but if I want to "have a look" at a finished item Rhino is probably the quickest to scribble something up with. The paid plugin flamingo is also pretty handy if you don't want to map models and has quite a few available variables to make things look a little more "real world"

best wishes

Dave

Exsecratio
28-05-2013, 08:00 PM
Something else I just remembered looking at another post,

Rhino can also calculate weights based on simple atomic mass functions. If you draw a "Ring" for example, then tell it you want to know the weight in say Pure Gold or Pure Silver it will work it out for you to 14 decimal places.

best wishes

Dave

ps_bond
28-05-2013, 08:49 PM
Rep-rap stuff is on the whole layered rubbish, sadly so are most of the affordable 3D printers.

The USP seems to be less the quality of the prints and more the amazement that they print at all...


Much like the engineering trade the new technology will slowly devalue the work of the real craftsmen....when was the last time anybody hand scraped a surface plate :(
In the firearms world most of the "handmade" stuff now trades on a name rather than on quality (Purdey,Boss, H&H) when in reality their actual mechanical quality is far worse than the mass produced machine made stuff.

That's a shame to hear, the decorative workmanship on the Purdeys & H&Hs I've seen looked fantastic - but there's always a niggle that makes me wonder if they're really designed to be used.


On the CAD side, sketchup is ok ish, quite a few of my customers use it but the drawings it produces do need quite a lot of work when they send them in, Rhino is probably the best value of all the 3D packages as many of the plugins are open source, Solidworks is usually what I end up having to use for collision detection and some of the other functions but if I want to "have a look" at a finished item Rhino is probably the quickest to scribble something up with. The paid plugin flamingo is also pretty handy if you don't want to map models and has quite a few available variables to make things look a little more "real world"

I quite like the idea of being able to extend Rhino myself - macros at the least, possibly full plugins. If you've got e.g Rhinogold, does that encompass enough of the functionality of Flamingo to be useful? And when you say "if you don't want to map models" - are you talking about Rhino's built-in (seemingly fairly basic) renderer?

Exsecratio
28-05-2013, 09:38 PM
If you've got e.g Rhinogold, does that encompass enough of the functionality of Flamingo to be useful? And when you say "if you don't want to map models" - are you talking about Rhino's built-in (seemingly fairly basic) renderer?

To be honest I haven't checked the version on mine, I recall it being 5.0 ( I tend to just update when I get the notifications from the developers)but will check when I get back into work in the morning. 5.0 does have a lot of open source developer tools available, no special requirements either, the Rhino dev program is probably one of the best to get involved with (AutoDESK don't really like to play much :() I have very little to do with developer work, I'm more the "I need to do this what do I have to buy" type of user :)

Yup the basic rendering tools in Rhino while good do leave a little to be desired, I will on occasion export and render in Max if I really need something special or use flamingo for mid level work (non photo realistic)


but there's always a niggle that makes me wonder if they're really designed to be used.

Very much so :) what most gunmakers ( I was never a Gunsmith, just a Gunmaker) would call a "mistake" the big names tend to call a "Feature" ;)

best wishes

Dave

medusa
29-05-2013, 09:43 AM
what most gunmakers ( I was never a Gunsmith, just a Gunmaker) would call a "mistake" the big names tend to call a "Feature" ;)



nowt wrong with that! ~coughs~

fay144
29-05-2013, 11:05 AM
I find the whole idea of 3D printing very exciting. It seems like every week in New Scientist there is another article about some new problem it is solving, and a lot of hype around it at the moment. I can see it being used more and more over the next decade, and the prices coming down accordingly.

But like everything else, I'm sure in ten years they will still be selling jewellery specific 3D printers that cost a fortune ;-)

Nick martin
01-07-2013, 12:58 PM
There's currently a free Beta version of Rhino available for MAC which I use for my designs.

Very easy to use and intuitive too once you get to grips with it. However I don't post my models off to be printed in wax, or cast, but use it primarily as a 2d illustrative tool. Once Im done I export the file in Adobe Illustrator format, resize, and print onto paper before applying to the wax then manually cutting out with a piercing saw etc.

The main benefits for me are that I can create complex designs with perfect measurements, which in turn leads to more accurate wax models. Trying to do certain shapes and curves via hand drawings is pretty hard to do as you'll end up doing all sorts of technical measurements by hand.

Nick