PMC and Enamel...Enamel and PMC???

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Hi peeps ... I want a bit of advice or suggestions from all you experienced pmc people! I am trying to develop a 'range' of pmc pieces that have enamelled highlights. I am after a degree of repeatability as these will be 'limited edition' pieces - exclusive to one outlet. Hopefully I will go on to do pendants of various shapes and bracelet links...and who knows what else!!! But the basic set up is that I have designed these little tiles into which I am adding enamelled highlights and I want to attach them to 'backplates' of various shapes and sizes. Obviously - as an almost total novice enameller - I do run the risk of mucking a few up!! - I accept that as inevitable! The thing is - if I build the piece first then fire it before going on to enamel I run the risk of 'wasting' a lot of silver (tiles and backplate) if something goes wrong at the enameling stage. So, ideally, I would like to attach the 'perfect' enamelled tiles that I make to the backplates!

I know you can join fired pmc to fired pmc...but what about fired pmc with enamel to fired pmc? When I attempt to join them in the kiln the temperature must be low enough to not affect the enamel. How low do you think I could go to ensure a fairly robust join without spoiling the enamel? Any other thoughts or ideas?

I don't want to use cold enamels/resin as I am going for a 'historically sympathetic' look. And I don't really want rivets because the tiles are too detailed and additional 'metal' would look out of place. I don't really want to do any sort of setting/prong/collet device as 1. I don't know how and 2. I need to keep costs down and the amount of time for all that would boost the labour costs sky high!!

I've attached a quick sketch to try to illustrate the sort of thing I am thinking of... All suggestions welcome!

http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss23/solunarsilverstudio/enameltiles.jpg

[MuranoSilver]

Barbara - Why not buy a sheet of fine siver from cooksons cut it up into oblongs then make some test strips... Flux half don't flux the other half, fire them to find colours you like.
This is
1) Cheaper than experimenting in PMC / ACS Silver clay
2) Quicker in finding the colours you like ;)

THEN you can make the pendant you've designed all as one piece and just pop the enamels on (knowing they'll work).
If you "stuff it up" it's still not a problem as the enamel can be removed and you can start again :D
I'm just about to order a load of enamel samples and do that very thing, once I have colours I know I like
(and will work together) I can make a range of pieces with enamel on
Nic x

[Solunar Silver Studio]

It's not the colours or fireability of the enamels that is bothering me. I want to be able to make short runs of different designs featuring the same set of 4 tiles in different combinations, orientations and groupings. I have made moulds of the tiles so can pop them out fairly quickly and get them enamelled. I then want to be able to attach them as required to pmc backs in whatever layout is required to replace the stock at this outlet. I don't want to hold stock of any particular piece if I can help it but want to know I can create another of the 'limited edition' designs almost instantly if needed...in other words I just want to be able to assemble and fire...finish and box!! (...me...production line....nah!!) But it's an idea I want to propose to this particular outlet - that would give them an exclusive, theme related, range of jewellery in their visitor shop. It has to be worth a try! I just need to get it to work!!!... minor point!!

[bustagasket]

cant wait for my course :D

[MuranoSilver]

If you don't want to bezel / prong set them then you'd need to use a cold connection (e.g. a rivet) which would be attached the enamel plaque (prior to firing on the colour) so you can use the coloured squares and attach them after.

An easier way of doing it would be to use a high melting point enamelling solder to arrange your pieces...
For instance (using your picture as a guide) you would have the squares pre-made solder them quickly to the back plate (using enamelling solder) in whatever combo you like - pop some enamel onto them in your selected colour combo & fire.

OR even easier
Pre make two / three design options of a the back plate entirely in PMC including joining the pieces together in the clay stage. Pre fire them and leave them until the customers choose their colour combos (you could have a colour sampler pre-made up for your outlet)
This is also the most commercially scalable way of doing it, as if it took off or someone saw them, and wanted large runs you could have the base plate design options cast.
:D

Nicx

[bustagasket]

I hope some day to be able to understand all that lol

[Di Sandland]

Barbara - remember me when you're making for Harrods

[MuranoSilver]

I know you can join fired pmc to fired pmc...but what about fired pmc with enamel to fired pmc? When I attempt to join them in the kiln the temperature must be low enough to not affect the enamel. How low do you think I could go to ensure a fairly robust join without spoiling the enamel? Any other thoughts or ideas?


Sorry I didn't pick this part out too :)
Any temperature high enough for the fine silver to fuse to any strength would be too high for the enamel to remain untouched....

Su - when you come on the course ask me and I'll show you some examples :)

Barbara - I just re-read your first post and noticed you said you didn't want to use rivets because it would bring another piece of metal into your squares....

Imagine your rivet looking like an earring with a post (the post goes through the back plate creating the rivet). If you didnt want them to spin you'd need to either use two posts per square or use square wire & holes for the rivets.

Nic x

[Di Sandland]

Done well I think rivets look stunning and can add to a design rather than marr it.

[bustagasket]

Su - when you come on the course ask me and I'll show you some examples :)

Nic x

ooo oooooo oooooooooooooo How long is my course again? 2 weeks? :-p

[Solunar Silver Studio]

AAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!

I think I'll have to think it out again.

Thanks for all your suggestions Nic. But I have to be able to make a profit on these things - and when once they have taken their cut I have to be able to justify the number of hours spent making them. I can't have anything that takes too long in construction as the time is more expensive than the silver!! (I don't work big in case you hadn't guessed!!)

I'm thinking that I might do just one enamel tile and use it remotely connected to groups of the other 3. That way if I bungle it I do only lose the one piece of pmc...and I was only planning on having the enamel as a highlight not a 'raison d'etre' for the entire range. I've just been having a play with this idea and have it drying while I get some lunch. I'll see if I can get it tidied up and fired at some point over the week end and see how it looks.


:dancing:I'm nothing if not flexible!!:dancing:

I'll keep you posted!:D

[Lindyloo]

What about blackening some of the tiles? That can look historically sympathetic.

[Solunar Silver Studio]

It did cross my mind Lindyloo but it isn't my favourite finish. Added to which, my whole business is based on the fact that fine silver hardly tarnishes - and as I work almost exclusively in fine silver...with just a smidgen of Argentium - having pieces that look tarnished...even if it is deliberate and purely for aesthetic reasons - does rather go against my 'unique selling point'!! (:cool:).

I won't dismiss the idea entirely though....I could have it uniquely - just for that range!!:-D. ....needs musts and all that!!

[caroleallen]

If it were me, I'd make the entire piece then enamel it. It's hard to go wrong with enamel on PMC or fine silver unless you over-fire it but I'm sure that won't happen. The beauty of PMC is that you won't get firescale so you can enamel straight onto it instead of having to think about making the piece and setting it. You probably should use enamelling solder or at least hard solder to join it though as anything else will run and may spoil the piece. I'd avoid riveting on a piece that's enamelled unless you can get the rivets a fair distance from the enamel as it's very likely to crack, particularly as the PMC is so soft. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious.

[Solunar Silver Studio]

If it were me, I'd make the entire piece then enamel it. It's hard to go wrong with enamel on PMC or fine silver unless you over-fire it but I'm sure that won't happen. The beauty of PMC is that you won't get firescale so you can enamel straight onto it instead of having to think about making the piece and setting it.

I know...isn't fine silver fantastic...I'm so in love with it!!!<3<3 I go all goose pimply just thinking about it!!:rofl:

[-X....no...no...of course I wouldn't overfire it... the mere suggestion of it!!:-O...hahahahahahaha

Well - over the last 8 hours or so I have done a complete turn around with my design idea and I have just finished a trial piece which I am so pleased with! ...I can't tell you how excited I am now I've seen it come to life!

Give me a few minutes and I'll get a piccie up but don't expect it to be very good. It will be taken by the kitchen fluorescent strip light ....what??...you mean that isn't standard professional photographers' lighting preference??? Well I never!!

[bustagasket]

*waits patiently for piccie*

[Solunar Silver Studio]

So - I decided to do just one tile with enamelled bits...and of course chose the easiest! And then I decided to forget about all this business of how to get it attached to a backplate with all the others...I decided to attach it 'remotely' and join it with jump rings.

90

(Sorry - the picture is a bit wonky and out of focus!!)

Now I've seen how easy it is to enamel this particular patterned tile I and how well the other ones are coming out I think I will try my original idea as well - joining the tiles to the backplate while the pmc is still fleible ...drying ...firing ...and then enamelling.

The designs are supposed to resemble medieaval tiles so I want the overall style to be a bit 'olde worlde' as well!

I have done another bit of pmc and enamelling today as well. It is part of a commission that I have to have done for next week end - and that has gone very well too! So I shall go to bed a happy girlie tonight!!

:))):dancing::)))

(P.S.
Thank you Di for this advice found in another thread this morning (Workshop Photographs) which has allowed me to make this post look so much less pretentious! I thought I had tried every possible way of attaching a photo...never noticed that tiny paperclip...DERRR!![]. I'm sorry this all looks a little confusing on the post but I wanted to cite where the info had come from!)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bustagasket

*noted that yet another person can do that thumbnail thingy that i cant do *sulks*


Are you using the 'attach' icon, Su'? Top line above the broken link icon
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Di x
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[MuranoSilver]

Yay! THAT is one GORGEOUS pendant!!! :Y::Y:
Nic x

[bustagasket]

it was worth waiting for hun, its brilliant well done!!! I love the blue enamels, mind you i love blues and purples lol [[]]

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Why - thank ee!! All in a days work you know!! :dance: (Who am I trying to kid?!)
Yes - I was rather pleased with that colour. All of my enamels are really ancient. (I'm making up an order with a friend over the week end for some new ones.) But that one had 'Kingfisher Blue' on the pot and it really is lovely! There is no doubt about it...transparent blues and greens work really well. Reds are a total nightmare!!
The other enamel I used today was matt black! This commission really is an odd one. I'll tell you all about it next Monday. I need to make sure the receiver of the goodies is the first one to see them - not last after you lot!!:D

[Di Sandland]

Sorry I'm late Barbara - X-factor and Michael MacIntyre ;)

That pendant is absolutely gorgeous!

[Lindyloo]

Yes it's lovely. Looks very heraldic. Not that I'm nosey or anything, but what did you use to make the stamps?

[Solunar Silver Studio]

It started out as a kiddies scrapbooking stamp which we have had for years (I never throw anything away!!:">). A good few hours with my trusty tissue blade, magnifying lens, modelling compound, a bucket load of patience and a bin full of 'spent' materials and I have got 5 usable tile moulds a little over a centimetre each!

[julie]

lovely pendant :D

[Pandanimal]

That is a georgous pendent. It just shouts medevil. wonderful.
I might get out the pmc books that my aunt lent me. Again! See if I can summon up the courage.
I should do a course realy. Might give me confidence.

[bustagasket]

Yes Pandy we gotta find you a course! But i aint giving up my spot with Nic not even for you :P

[Pandanimal]

Don't blame you, Su'. I wouldn't either if the shoe was on the other foot.

[Petal]

Hi Barbara,

Your pendant is absolutely GORGEOUS !!! ;) I love the way it hangs from the cord at the top and it does have a medieval look about it ... simple and elegant! And the colour too..... Oh I do love those blues :<3:

(having a day off from making stuff today)..


[] Jules x

[Kalorlo]

That's a lovely pendant, Barbara!

[caroleallen]

Really lovely. Can't wait to see the others.

[EmmaRose]

Try blind rivets (the front end is embedded in your tile and therefore not visible).
Looks lovely. If you have alot to make get them cast.....
Em

[Solunar Silver Studio]

People keep saying about getting things cast...could I get things cast in fine silver? I know I keep harping on about fine silver but that is my 'unique selling point' - all my work is either fine silver or fine silver with argentium so is all very tarnish resistant. Where do I look for someone who would do fine silver...and do they deal with 'little people' who only want relatively small runs? I get fed up with big, fancy businesses looking down on me because I want small amounts of things!!