Setters cement...argh!

[silken]

I have recently been doing a lot more stone setting than usual and most of my work cannot be well supported by any conventional tools like the ring clamp or pin vice. I recently bought some setters cement from Cooksons, a whole box of the stuff in fact, but I have had nothing but problems. I melt the cement as instructed onto a wooden rod and while the cement is still warm, I place my work and mould it slightly so that it should be well supported. I allow it to cool for a while and then start working. Some of the time when I'm cutting a seat the cement loosens with the heat or simply snaps and my work goes flying across the room. Sometimes it works just fine but I have to spend ages trying to get the horrible brown cement off my work which is tedious to say the least.

Does anyone have any recommendations or tips that I could try before I give up on this horrible cement all together? I have been reading about other methods of securing work and was quite interested in a product called Jett Set but as far as I am aware, I would have to order it from America. I just want to find the best way to support my jewellery during stone setting with minimal clean up afterwards and general ease of use :)

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated :D

[mizgeorge]

Give up on it and get some polymorph instead! Perhaps not the most helpful tip, but so much easier to use and especially clean up after.

[Goldsmith]

We had a discussion about this on an earlier thread, see; http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3802

Never used polymorth, but it sure looks good to use, I am still using home mixed pitch based cement that I made 30 years ago.
James

[ps_bond]

Jett Set & Polymorph are the same plastic; there's also Thermolock (GRS brand, available in the UK), which seems to be the same plastic again, but with a metal filler so it can be warmed in the microwave.

As far as using the cement goes, I swap between that & Polymorph as the need goes; I probably lean more to Polymorph at the moment.

Yes, the cement needs to cool down when seat cutting - the only times I've pinged stuff out of the cement is when I've not had it adhered properly (warm the mount - cold mount + warm cement = naff-all adhesion) and I've been leaning into a cut a bit. Other than that, I try and poke drilled holes clear of cement with a toothpick before it hardens (it's not kind to cutting edges) and I dissolve the last remains off in meths.

[caroleallen]

I quite like Polymorph but find it takes ages to soften big blocks in boiling water.

[silken]

Thanks so much for the replies everyone! I was reading Creative Stonesetting by John Cogswell and that's where I saw the Jett Set name and checked online only to find it available in the US. I'm glad there are others available in the UK. All I can say is, I don't think I have quite the right technique when it comes to the cement and I don't have an awful lot of patience trying to clean the piece up afterwards so these plastic based alternatives sound great. I think I'll try the polymorph and see how it goes. It sounds similar to a plastic I've used in a medical laboratory before so I think I'll be more at ease with it.

Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate it!

[Wallace]

Hi Emily, you can soak your pieces in some of that purple methylated spirits, it will soon melt the cement and come off, a little bit of soapy water and a soft toothbrush and you are soon done.

It seems though, ultimately, polymorph will be the closest equivolent (although not biodegradeable)


i keep in going back to the cement as I find I have no patience to wait for it set, Cement only takes minutes and I don't mind putting it into some spirits to keep it happy whilst melting.

polymorph is great, but I love the smell of melting cement in the mornings...... Lol

[silken]

Thanks, Wallace :)

I have been soaking my work in methylated spirits but I was very cautious of using it with some gemstones for obvious reasons. I also found it very difficult to get the cement out of the extremely hard to reach crevices and even after a considerable amount of time in the spirit, there was still some residue that I just couldn't reach. I popped the piece in a tumbler for a bit (bearing in mind, my tumbler is currently broken so I put my tumbling barrel in my old washing mahine wrapped in some jumpers, worked a charm) and fortunately most of the residue seemed to be dislodged.

I definitely won't give up full stop on the cement just yet but I'm going to get some polymorph just to experiment. I have actually used it before in the lab but it was being marketed under a different name I believe, good stuff though!

Thanks again everyone. If anyone fancies a couple of sticks of this pesky cement I'm happy to post it to you just for the P&P price. I am never going to get through a whole box full of this stuff! Send me a message if you're interested.

[Wallace]

No worries Emily, thanks for the response. I do prefer the cement and despite the smell of the spirits find it easieir than the plastics. I have some polymorph you can experiment with. Send me you addy in a pm if you would like some.

[silken]

Wallace, I've sent you a PM. Thanks so much for your kind offer, I really appreciate it.

[silken]

I just thought I'd post a quick update on my setting cement dilemma. Wallace ever so kindly sent me some polymorph to experiment with and I can honestly say I love it. Me and the cement sticks don't get on very well but the polymorph is wonderful. The biggest advantages for me are the longer time frame you have to mould it into shape to support the piece and the super easy clean up afterwards. No more methylated spirits or bits of cement stuck in the most impossible to reach places!

So, if anyone wants any of these horrible brown sticks, just send me a PM and I'll pop some in an envelope because right now that have defeated me and are staring at me in a rather condescending way. They need to go to someone who can actually make use of them ;)

[ShinyLauren]

Emily, how long does the polymorph take to 'set' after you've put the bit of jewellery in and moulded it? Does it hold up well if you need to push the metal with some force?

I've been using the evil brown sticks for years and like how quickly they set, but hate all the faffing about with meths to remove the cement and also the burn marks on my fingers from when it's molten!

[mizgeorge]

The setting time depends on how much you've got on the stick/pad and how hot you've got it first. It can be speeded up dramatically by a dunk in iced water though ;)

I push HARD when I set bezels as I often use quite thick walls, and I haven't lost anything yet. It holds up well with a hammer handpiece as well.

[ShinyLauren]

Thanks George! So you'd recommend it over the traditional setting cement then?

[silken]

Personally, I'd favour polymorph over the cement sticks any day but it is totally down to personal preference. The polymorph remains mouldable for longer than the cement which is good for me because I am a bit clumsy so it takes a while to get everything in the right position but it sets nice an quickly too. Like George said, it sets very quickly when it's cold so I usually run it under the cold tap and hey presto, it's set and ready to start. I use it to hold very small components and when I'm cutting seats with burrs I just make sure to use the flexshaft on a low setting with some beeswax to reduce friction heat. If it does start to heat up when you're working on it, just put it in the freezer for a minute or run it under the cold tap again.

I just put the polymorph granules in a mug of kettle hot water and wait for them so soften and start to stick together (just 30 seconds) then squish it all up into a ball, put it back in for a few seconds then start moulding it. It doesn't burn your hands really and to remove any traces of it afterwards, just dunk the whole thing in hot water, wait for a few seconds for it to soften then remove the piece. If there is any polymorph stuck in any joints or crevices it's easy to remove with tweezers after a little dunk in the hot water :D

I'm pretty heavy handed when it comes to setting and it holds up extremely well. The only times I've had slight problems is when I'm trying to cut a seat and it starts to get a bit warm but this is easily remedied. I use a setting punch and those round bezel closing punches (along with the usual bezel pusher, burnisher, etc) with a hammer and I've never had anything pop out (unlike with the sticks...urgh).

[mizgeorge]

Thanks George! So you'd recommend it over the traditional setting cement then?

Totally!

It does lots of other useful things as well. My current kitchen bin has a pedal made from a blob of polymorph after the original one snapped in two :)

[ShinyLauren]

Awesome!

Off to order some now...