Hallmarked Napkin Rings

[Vanessa]

Does anyone know whether the napkin rings sold by cooksons are hallmarked on the inside or outside please?

I want to make a silver toothfairy 'box' for my neice and would rather it was hallmarked on the inside so that if I feel capable I can etch a design onto it. I've never made anything quite so big before am looking forward to the challenge (shes only 4 months old so i have a few years yet to sweat over it before required!) I'm wondering whether it should be a loose fitted lid or whether it should be hinged lid but having never hinged anythging before I feel this to be a huge job, I've also never etched anything either ... so will have to take on smaller practise projects incorporating hinges and etching in my jewellery.

[Wallace]

Hi Vanessa,

welcome to the forum.

Regarding adding metal to the napkin rings, you will need to be mindful that it changes the item from what it was and an assay office will need to give you a change of use certificate to go with it. I have recently converted some forks to bangles and that meant a change of use. London Assay office can give you some really good sound advice around this. But briefly and from the source the current regulatory requirements state:

"Practical guidance in relation to the Hallmarking Act 1973

Making an alteration to a hallmarked article

It is possible to make an alteration to a hallmarked article, subject to the following conditions:
• The altered article must be of the same character and purpose as the original(e.g. a spoon must not become a fork).
• The addition must be of the same standard as the article to which it is being added.
• The weight of the addition must be no heavier than 0.5 grams in platinum,1 gram in gold, 1 gram in palladium, and 7.78 grams in silver.
• The addition must not be greater than 50% of the article’s total weight.
• Any other alterations must be re-submitted to an Assay Office."

hope this helps and doesn't confuse you too much.
kindest,
Wallace

[surfergirl]

Hi Vanessa

I'm not sure whether it should be a hinged or separate lid but would think either would be fine. I've had a quick look on amazon but am none the wiser as to what the traditional style is so perhaps others can pitch in here. (Excuse the dense question and honestly, this is me being dense, not patronising but are these type of gifts (christening spoons, lock of hair boxes, etc...) given to the child to 'use' or are they keepsakes for when they are older? Not having children or any such keepsake myself, I just don't know!)

Don't worry about the not having etched anything before. I've learnt that as long as you have planted in the mind that you want do achieve something, as long as you stick to that desire, you'll achieve the desired outcome.

AND as you'll have time to practice I'm sure you'll get the technique down! There are quite a few posts re etching on the forum. Have a search if you've not done so already.

Can I ask, why you want to use a ready hallmarked napkin ring? If you are not registered for hallmarking yourself, you can still get pieces hallmarked - Cookson's are able to do this (but I've not used the service myself). One reviewer on amazon mentioned it's nice to have the hallmark the same year of the child's birth so not sure whether this would be something to consider?

[medusa]

if something is made and given as a gift, doesn't that exempt it from hallmarking, as long as no one tries selling it on afterwards as silver?

That said, whilst I can see the point in using the readymade napkin rings as the base for the box, I think Wallace is right that because you would be adding silver to the ring to make the box, there could be issues with the ring being hallmarked. I'd go for an unhallmarked ring and maybe get it marked later when it's fully made.

[caroleallen]

Why not just buy some silver tube and make it yourself. Rashbel do large diameter tubing. As for hallmarking, although it would be nice to get it done, it's not strictly necessary as long as you're not selling it.

[Vanessa]

well I am glad I posted the question... I had no idea that there were restrictions or rules regarding hallmarked items! Think I'll do it from scratch as you suggest Carole - where will I find Rashbel ? Re the question about whether it will be a keepsake - I'd like to think it will be used for any wobbly teeth that has worked its way free, my daughter uses hers.

Rashpels - now found online - love it they've got loads of stuff!

[Dennis]

The advantage of Carole's suggestion is that you can then decide for yourself what length of tube to use, slice off about 8.0mm for the lid, add a top and bottom and finally a protruding rim within the box to hold the lid securely.

This will avoid the need for a hinge, which is seriously difficult for a beginner. The lid can be made to fit a little more tightly by adding one or more light punch marks to the inner rim, which will raise small pimples on it.

Below are my magnetic paperclip holders made using this general idea. However these are oval and roll textured rather than etched, so I had to make the tubes as well. Dennis

[Vanessa]

Thanks Dennis - fab paperclip holders! I've not put pen to paper yet to plan it but in my head I was thinking of doming the lid but looking at my doming block I possibly wouldnt have a big enough 'doming hole' to do that... unless I make a box that is just big enough for one very small tooth lol... got to start somewhere!?



The advantage of Carole's suggestion is that you can then decide for yourself what length of tube to use, slice off about 8.0mm for the lid, add a top and bottom and finally a protruding rim within the box to hold the lid securely.

This will avoid the need for a hinge, which is seriously difficult for a beginner. The lid can be made to fit a little more tightly by adding one or more light punch marks to the inner rim, which will raise small pimples on it.

Below are my magnetic paperclip holders made using this general idea. However these are oval and roll textured rather than etched, so I had to make the tubes as well. Dennis

[mizgeorge]

I use Argex for large bore tube - they go up to 50mm OD. The easiest for little boxes, though are their 32 and 30mm sizes as they fit inside each other. A small (5mm will do) length of the 30mm soldered just inside one end makes a lovely inside edge which the lid will fit over.

I wish there were more sizes of tube available that nested this neatly. It would make some sizes of tube settings so much easier!

edited to add - just seen your last post, and you can get some very inexpensive wooden doming blocks for larger sizes.

[Vanessa]

I use Argex for large bore tube - they go up to 50mm OD. The easiest for little boxes, though are their 32 and 30mm sizes as they fit inside each other. A small (5mm will do) length of the 30mm soldered just inside one end makes a lovely inside edge which the lid will fit over.

I wish there were more sizes of tube available that nested this neatly. It would make some sizes of tube settings so much easier!

edited to add - just seen your last post, and you can get some very inexpensive wooden doming blocks for larger sizes.

Thanks goodness so much helpful advice! Re the wooden doming blocks do they last? my wooden punches havent faired very well at all - one in fact has crumbled :(

[mizgeorge]

I wouldn't say the wooden blocks last for ever, but for the price (under a tenner), they do the job for long enough, and I just replace them when they get a bit manky. You can use them with the large hardwood punches (which are much better than the mushroom shaped ones), or (gently) with the largest metal punches you have.

[Vanessa]

I wouldn't say the wooden blocks last for ever, but for the price (under a tenner), they do the job for long enough, and I just replace them when they get a bit manky. You can use them with the large hardwood punches (which are much better than the mushroom shaped ones), or (gently) with the largest metal punches you have.
Under a tenner? well thats on my shopping list! haha thanks George!

[Goldsmith]

Check out this on Amazon, it might suit your purpose; http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wooden-Dapping-Block-Punches-Metal/dp/B0053TQTLC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1356945088&sr=8-1

You can also hammer deep dome shapes by using a domed hammer and a lead block, or if you only want a shallow dome then you can use a slightly domed hammer on a steel flatplate.
Check out this tutorial about using a lead block that I did on another forum, most of my best doming hammers are just standard cheap hammers filed to suit the shapes I want;
http://www.guildofjewellerydesigners.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=921:making-a-metal-leaf-by-james-miller&catid=15&Itemid=67

James

[caroleallen]

I use Argex for large bore tube - they go up to 50mm OD. The easiest for little boxes, though are their 32 and 30mm sizes as they fit inside each other. A small (5mm will do) length of the 30mm soldered just inside one end makes a lovely inside edge which the lid will fit over.

I wish there were more sizes of tube available that nested this neatly. It would make some sizes of tube settings so much easier!

edited to add - just seen your last post, and you can get some very inexpensive wooden doming blocks for larger sizes.

On checking out the Argex site, I spotted that they do sized tubes for rings. I've never come across that before. Does anyone use them and are they any good?

[mizgeorge]

On checking out the Argex site, I spotted that they do sized tubes for rings. I've never come across that before. Does anyone use them and are they any good?

I do from time to time, and yes, it's very easy to use :)

[ShinyLauren]

On checking out the Argex site, I spotted that they do sized tubes for rings. I've never come across that before. Does anyone use them and are they any good?

I was just looking at those as well! Need to get my maths head on and work out if it's cheaper than buying the wedding ring blanks from Cooksons...

[caroleallen]

Let me know when you've worked it out Lauren, cos I don't have a maths head! I guess the advantage is that you can have any width you like.

[mizgeorge]

If it's any help Carole, I find them cheaper than wedding ring blanks, and I love being able to choose the width. I have no problems taking them up half a size for between sizes either.

[caroleallen]

Thanks George. I think I'll give them a go.

[Patstone]

Why do you guys buy blanks, thought you would have made them from sheet or wire.

[ps_bond]

On the upside, it's faster and there's no seam.
Downside is increased cost and having to keep more stock on hand.

No pun intended :)

[Patstone]

How can you advertise it as hand made if all you do is compile stuff. Its as bad as buying findings.

[ps_bond]

A valid point, but where do you draw the line? Did you mine the silver ore? No? Well, you didn't make it then... It gets a bit like Carl Sagan's recipe for apple pie: First, you create the universe.

For some things I do, tubing would have a valid place -

4171

Some would be more tricky, but still doable -

4172

And some would be right out -

4173

For the first one, I made up a ring before adding the rails and then the setting.
The amber I reticulated sheet before bending it as a part shank & soldered it onto the bezel mount.
The last one... A bit more involved.

If I'd used tube for the first, is it really any less handmade? It'd give the customer a better (for some definitions of better) product as there would be no solder line to tarnish (it'd also have cut down on the amount of firestain I had to scrub out). Or should I have cut the ring from a solid block? Admittedly if I was doing that I'd use wax - and getting it cast would move it further from being handmade - or would it?

What about tube settings?

You can go mad worrying about these things :)

[Dennis]

Aw don't be cross with them Pat, we all use some ready-mades. For instance I can't bear to make my own scrolls unless I have to and my bought ear wires have much better double notches than I can make. Also I've never attempted my own barrel catch, although Sylvia Wickes shows you how.

Happy New Year, Dennis.:reindeer:

[ShinyLauren]

Why do you guys buy blanks, thought you would have made them from sheet or wire.

If I'm doing a d-shape, oval or fine round ring, I make them from wire, but with a chunky flat band, or heavy halo ring, it's just so much easier to buy the blanks, rather than spend hours (and infuriating my neighbours) hammering away on a triblet.

[ShinyLauren]

If it's any help Carole, I find them cheaper than wedding ring blanks, and I love being able to choose the width. I have no problems taking them up half a size for between sizes either.

Thanks George - I haven't gotten around to the maths yet! The tubing comes in a much wider range of sizes than Cookies' heavyweight flat blanks do too.

[mizgeorge]

How can you advertise it as hand made if all you do is compile stuff. Its as bad as buying findings.

Personally, I'm delighted that people do buy findings....

There are times when I simply prefer seamless tube. I don't see it as any difference to buying small gauges of tube for setting stones. I can make my own very well, but the time/cost equation doesn't always add up the right way. Like Dennis, I also buy scrolls and sprung clasps. I don't always make the glass beads and cabs I use in my work myself either, and I certainly have no lapidary skills.

I'd also add that there are some very talented assemblers out there, and many are no less makers of handmade than those of us that fabricate from scratch every time. Obviously I'm not talking about buying a charm and putting it on a chain and calling it a handmade necklace, but (for example) those who string or seedbead well, with pleasing colour, balance and shape are often highly skilled artisans, and pieces made using these techniques, as well as others, are surely as handmade as my metal bits.

[Patstone]

Point taken and I am sorry if I offended anyone, not intentional. I have been to numerous craft fairs and it is obvious that all the rings have been bought and the findings too, and just compiled, and I have had one person asking why my jewellery is more expensive than theirs, and why I dont make fifty different colours in the same style. So I get a bit miffed when someone pertains to "make" jewellery, when all they do is put it together. I am not talking about clasps and things that are very difficult and time consuming to make, I am talking about the production line stuff that some people class as handmade.

[ps_bond]

I know what you mean. Where do you stand on someone having 10s-100s of the same design cast? Sure, they made the first one and there's some casting clean-up, but how far is it from handmade?

I knew someone nearby who had elements of her jewellery cast - flowers, mostly - which she'd then assemble. But again, she'd done the work to get the elements right...

As for hammering metal into shape - that's something I thoroughly enjoy, so wouldn't be so inclined to use blanks personally. Whether it is time efficient is another matter. But it is fun.

[Patstone]

George, I didnt mean beaders or the skill that comes with it, I was talking about the basic jewellers skills, making rings, bezels and the other types of settings. As you know my skills in that department are very limited but at least I try hard to make the parts involved, and as time goes by I am getting better at it. I can understand people buying findings and ring blanks and bezels but they "hand compile" it, not hand make.

[Anna Wales]

Some interesting points made. There is a difference between people making jewellery as a hobby albeit a serious hobby and as a commercial venture. Having run a business it would have been out of the question to make all the findings, chains etc. With many of my designs, I have always made the first one and then had them cast, given the time they take it would be too costly timewise to make each one and still be able to sell at a realistic price. I don't feel in any way that I just assemble things. I do also make one-offs and I feel that a balance can be found between the two and it also gives me a wide range of prices hopefully to suit all pockets!
I agree with you Pat about the craft fair side of things. I've only been to a few since coming back into the business and I'm amazed that some are allowed to attend as they have obviously just bought all the stock in.

[medusa]

I think even 'assembling' or compiling components can be tricky as well, and if you are making to sell, then sometimes ready made components can make the difference between something costing a sellable £200 or an unsellable £500 in terms of time. I'm thinking here of a project I'm working on which is going to use three dozen tiny bezel settings. I was initially thinking of making them by hand, but having made a few of them, I know that this project would take me several weeks actual work as opposed to the probably two weeks it will take me. Whilst I am strictly speaking an amateur because I have no training, the stuff I sell (including castings which I enamel) helps to pay my bills, as our only income is my student's bursary so I need to balance how much time I can spend making something with how much it will sell for.

That said, I totally agree with you about the sellers you see who slice up silver tube, grind the ends smooth, and then sell it as a 'handmade' ring for £150 at a craft fair.

[caroleallen]

If I do buy the tube rings, there is still skill involved in cutting them up, filing, polishing etc. I would be adding to them though by soldering things on, so I wouldn't feel bad about that. In the run up to Christmas I made from scratch and sold over 100 rings. I'm just trying to find a way to cut down on the time consuming bits, as I found it all very stressful. As someone else said, it's about trying to make a living.

[surfergirl]

A very interesting post on something I was wondering about myself just recently. I've made a pair of leafy, pierced earrings and have been thinking of getting them cast.

As well as earrings, I have other designs in mind where I would solder the cast components together to make bangles, necklaces and pendants. Some of the finished pieces like the bangle would be more time consuming to produce but in the case of the earrings, all I'd need to do after clean up would be to solder on an earpost and attach a (non-soldered) jumpring.

Could I still describe the earrings as 'handmade'?

How do others describe their cast pieces? Do you mention they are cast from your original master?

I too buy the ready made earring backs, tubing and clasps. In my mind, I have no problem with describing a basic ring made of wire with a tube set stone as handmade. Even though I've not made the wire, tube or stone myself, I've designed the piece, shaped the wire and soldered it into a ring, cut the seat for the stone and set it and have finished it to a high standard. Different from buying a stone and using one of those snap fit settings: http://www.palmermetals.co.uk/shop/sterling-silver-findings/sterling-silver-snap-in-settings.html

[surfergirl]

And exactly wot Carole said :)

[medusa]

If I do buy the tube rings, there is still skill involved in cutting them up, filing, polishing etc. I would be adding to them though by soldering things on, so I wouldn't feel bad about that. In the run up to Christmas I made from scratch and sold over 100 rings. I'm just trying to find a way to cut down on the time consuming bits, as I found it all very stressful. As someone else said, it's about trying to make a living.

^^^^ this


A very interesting post on something I was wondering about myself just recently. I've made a pair of leafy, pierced earrings and have been thinking of getting them cast.

As well as earrings, I have other designs in mind where I would solder the cast components together to make bangles, necklaces and pendants. Some of the finished pieces like the bangle would be more time consuming to produce but in the case of the earrings, all I'd need to do after clean up would be to solder on an earpost and attach a (non-soldered) jumpring.

Could I still describe the earrings as 'handmade'?

How do others describe their cast pieces? Do you mention they are cast from your original master?

I too buy the ready made earring backs, tubing and clasps. In my mind, I have no problem with describing a basic ring made of wire with a tube set stone as handmade. Even though I've not made the wire, tube or stone myself, I've designed the piece, shaped the wire and soldered it into a ring, cut the seat for the stone and set it and have finished it to a high standard. Different from buying a stone and using one of those snap fit settings: http://www.palmermetals.co.uk/shop/sterling-silver-findings/sterling-silver-snap-in-settings.html

An awful lot of my stuff is cast. When I get a bangle back from the caster it takes me at least a day to do a basic clean up and another day to get it to a stage where it is 'done'. I get one done at a time and have no issues about it as they couldn't actually be hand made in the first place, though the process of crating the pattern can take me a couple of days all told (excluding collecting the seaweed!). The other cast stuff I sell is purely to make a bit of extra cash. Same with the plectrums.

as far as making things like ear wires, I;ve tried it and they look cr@p. When I finally get my earrings ready to sell, I'll be buying decent quality ones from George.

[ShinyLauren]

A very interesting post on something I was wondering about myself just recently. I've made a pair of leafy, pierced earrings and have been thinking of getting them cast.

As well as earrings, I have other designs in mind where I would solder the cast components together to make bangles, necklaces and pendants. Some of the finished pieces like the bangle would be more time consuming to produce but in the case of the earrings, all I'd need to do after clean up would be to solder on an earpost and attach a (non-soldered) jumpring.

Could I still describe the earrings as 'handmade'?

How do others describe their cast pieces? Do you mention they are cast from your original master?

I too buy the ready made earring backs, tubing and clasps. In my mind, I have no problem with describing a basic ring made of wire with a tube set stone as handmade. Even though I've not made the wire, tube or stone myself, I've designed the piece, shaped the wire and soldered it into a ring, cut the seat for the stone and set it and have finished it to a high standard. Different from buying a stone and using one of those snap fit settings: http://www.palmermetals.co.uk/shop/sterling-silver-findings/sterling-silver-snap-in-settings.html

I cast quite a lot of my stuff from either an original hand carved from wax, or pierced and carved from silver sheet. Making each thing completely from scratch would be far too time consuming. And silly.

When I put them up for sale on my website, I describe them as cast from my original hand made design, and hand finished by me.

When I use ring blanks, I would never just polish up a ring blank and sell it, there's always work done to it, bits soldered on, texture hammered in, stones set etc.

[Tabby66]

If I do buy the tube rings, there is still skill involved in cutting them up, filing, polishing etc. I would be adding to them though by soldering things on, so I wouldn't feel bad about that. In the run up to Christmas I made from scratch and sold over 100 rings. I'm just trying to find a way to cut down on the time consuming bits, as I found it all very stressful. As someone else said, it's about trying to make a living.

I think Carole has summed it up nicely.............

[Patstone]

What I am talking about isnt casting or buying in ring blanks to help in the production speed. I am talking about people that buy in ready made jewellery with snap in settings, that all they have to do is put a stone in it, job done and then call it handmade. Like the ones that Surfergirl (Indi ?) mentioned earlier. If they want to do that, they shouldnt call it handmade, we buy clasps, fine chains and obviously the stones, and we have a sign on our stand to say that everything is handmade by us apart from the fine chains and clasps. People buying from us know that we have hand crafted just about everything, and sometimes if people are interested we show them the sheet and wire that we make the stuff from. I am not knocking the hard working people who are trying to make a living from making jewellery, just the sharks that buy ready made, click a stone in and quadruple the price and still have the cheek to call it handmade.

[ps_bond]

I'm still playing devil's advocate I'm afraid Pat -

2 things:

1. How would you phrase that so it was unambiguous - so you can say "this does not count" and not have people like me say "ah, but what about..."?
2. If, for example, I'm asked to make a more complex setting (a basket-back cluster, for example) and the customer isn't happy to take the price hit that my fabricating it would cost, I then go to Eurofindings and buy an unfinished, standard pattern/size setting, solder it onto a shank, finish it and then do all the stone setting - not handmade? Also, if the customer can't actually tell the difference between the fabricated & the cast finding, what do they feel they're paying for?

I'm particularly interested in getting my wording straight on this - I've got a couple of comments on the recent exhibition that relate to this and I'd prefer to manage some phrasing that doesn't get people's backs up.

[medusa]

this thread is putting me in mind of a prehistoric living site I found over christmas (I was looking to remind myself of the best way to render the two litres of goose fat I had). Those guys would consider the lot of us to be frauds as they would argue that we should be making our own tools and extracting the ore etc. I did love the irony of these bronze age men having a web site :)

I suspect that the only way to fully differentiate yourself from other sellers if the ~only~ fabricated stuff you buy is sheet, wire and tubing, is to say every single part is made by hand. Now if someone is happy to pay the 4 times the cost of that item compared with someone who has produced a near identical piece using some ready made components like ring blanks or stone settings, then great. I'm sure there are people out there who would do that, but I suspect it's a small number. I think the trick is to make something that is absolutely individual in design and execution, even if some parts are prefabricated.

I also think there is a bit of a distinction between individuals making jewellery which sometimes uses ready made components and mass produced, identical stuff. The ring Peter would make in that example is presumably commissioned because that design isn't available in mass production, so the final outcome is still something unique even if some parts are assembled.

[Patstone]

Perhaps I should back out of this because the last thing I want to do is upset people. I was referring to people that buy all the components completely finished apart from setting in the stone. You can buy finished ring shanks with bezels already soldered (are they called snap-in) and all you have to do is put the stone in, so it isnt (in my opinion - hand made).

[ps_bond]

Not at all! It's proving to be a really good kick-around. Different people draw the line at different points, and it's interesting to see why each person picks that point.

[caroleallen]

Don't worry Pat. No-one's offended. It's just a debate and I agree with you about ready made rings.

[Dennis]

My feeling is that most punters don't give a monkey's whether its made by hand or untouched by hand. they would like to think that the seller had some part in the design and making though. They would also prefer that the numbers are not too large or at lest the design be varied to reduce the risk of seeing the identical thing on a friend and lastly they would prefer the price not to be so high as to break the bank.

If you are a world class designer, then of course none of the above will hold because you will have a following who collect your one offs, mostly to show off in a cabinet.

I think for general purposes 'designed and made by' will be a good enough designation. Dennis.

[caroleallen]

I agree Dennis. It always amazes me how little imagination most customers have. When I make more unusual stuff which I have to charge more for, it always takes a while to sell. My run of the mill stuff is always snapped up immediately. Very boring for me as I don't want to churn out the same old stuff all the time. I sometimes feel like a one-woman factory. Still, it pays the bills, so I shouldn't complain.

[ShinyLauren]

I agree Dennis. It always amazes me how little imagination most customers have. When I make more unusual stuff which I have to charge more for, it always takes a while to sell. My run of the mill stuff is always snapped up immediately. Very boring for me as I don't want to churn out the same old stuff all the time. I sometimes feel like a one-woman factory. Still, it pays the bills, so I shouldn't complain.

Same. I make new stuff and in my head I'm all "oh I really love this design, it's going to sell really well, blah blah blah" and then nothing. Not a sausage. I just make things I like and would want to wear, but it's so hard to predict what other people might want!

[Patstone]

Hahahaha I make all the rings my size. If they dont sell, well it means I have to wear them. Shame.



Same. I make new stuff and in my head I'm all "oh I really love this design, it's going to sell really well, blah blah blah" and then nothing. Not a sausage. I just make things I like and would want to wear, but it's so hard to predict what other people might want!

[ps_bond]

Hahahaha I make all the rings my size. If they dont sell, well it means I have to wear them. Shame.

Oddly, that approach doesn't work so well for me...

I *ought* to have made some cufflinks for the exhibition - plus a pair for me. 20/20 hindsight.

[Dennis]

My very worst encounter was with a visitor who looked up from my photo album and asked: Do you make this from a kit?

By the way Pat, far from being apologetic, you should be well pleased with all the comments your post has raised. After all, that's what a Forum is for, except during the Ides of March of course. Dennis.

[Tabby66]

By the way Pat, far from being apologetic, you should be well pleased with all the comments your post has raised. After all, that's what a Forum is for, except during the Ides of March of course. Dennis.

Absoutely Dennis!!

Well, I've really enjoyed reading through this thread! Ooooh, and now I'm wondering where to start!! I try to make as much of my work myself, from sheet, wire, tube, including as many and an increasing variety of findings, on pieces such as my brooches I make an additional point in the item description that all parts of the item are made by hand by myself (though some parts of some items I make initially and will have a few cast, for efficiency and reduced costs), i then have to finish this part of the item and add the additional parts to it (not clip on!!), I am learning where and when to use blanks, eurofindings settings like Peter. I don't cut stones or mine my own ore ;-D

I do think people are choosy and protective of their money and do want to know that they are getting value for their money and something that they are not going to go out and bump into someone wearing the same item. I vary each of my repeat items and I also do limited editions. What amazes me like you Carole, is it's often the boring uncreative, run of the mill stuff that people like!! Also like you Lauren, I tend to make stuff I lwould like to wear and it stumps me why one piece becomes an absolute flyer and another doesn't!!

Two things I have done......I make my work out of thicker heavier weight sheet etc, people pick items up and their immediate reaction is to comment on the weight compared to other work. Secondly, most of my stones I get professionally set.....not that I don't love setting stones, BUT, firstly I have to make the setting myself, perfectly for the stone, but the setter sets stones day in day out and has done so for years, that's there job, their speciality, and they do it well,..........I'm focussing on 'perfecting' (if only) other aspects of my work.......namely designing and I guess a traditional 'model makers' skills.

Well........there you go for a start!! Lol................. :jedi:

[medusa]

I think this has been a really interesting discussion as well.

Something which came to mind which kind of relates to this was finding a necklace on ebay the other day (I am a bit of a magpie for art nouveau enamelled stuff). It was listed as art nouveau, but I recognised it as a Pat Cheney piece because I have the same necklace (though sadly a bit damaged and I'm too scared to try and fix this one). Now I love Cheney's work and I think it is fabulous that you can buy a substantial hand-enamelled sterling necklace for less than a hundred quid. But you can only do this because they are cast.

However, my PC necklace is actually hand made. I can see the slight irregularities in the hand piercing. Even though it may not have been made by her personally but someone she employed (I have seen about three other copies of this design), I treasure it all the more for being totally hand made. This is to the point where although I'll happily fix an old art nouveau piece which has been mass produced but is now worth £300+ but might end up damaging, I daren't risk it on my PC piece, even though it's worth far less in money terms.

[Dennis]

That elevates you to the role of collector Liz, and they are every jewellery maker's dream.

[medusa]

heh, I have a seriously insane amount of old stuff. Nothing too fancy, I can't afford murlle Bennett or Knox and the like, but I have at least six or seven pieces by the likes of Horner or Fenton at any one time. I occasionally flog em off on ebay when I get too skint :( but because they were mass produced I can usually replace them at some point.

I also collect bits of Norwegian/Scandinavian modernist stuff as well. A lot of that was mass produced, but not, I think in the same quantities as say Charles Horner. Again, whilst I'll re-enamel a Horner, I'm loathe to do the same to a Holmsen because they are too hard to replace.