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Hello from Austria
29-10-2012, 10:12 AM
Hello,

I am wondering what are some methods to cover silver sheet with gold? I cant afford to work in gold, so covering silver with gold will be the option. I know of keum boo, but what if I wanted to "gold plate" a piece of jewellery which is too intricate to burnish? I've seen some instructions to gold plate using a gold plating machine and swabbing your piece with electrically charged wand, but I am sceptical..! Can you suggest what you use out there?

Thanks

Julia

ps_bond
29-10-2012, 10:29 AM
Electroplating has been in use for just over 200 years... Why the scepticism?

Of course, the traditional electroplating baths used moderate amounts of cyanide, which wasn't ideal. Cooksons can sell you a plating unit (or a pen plating unit for smaller areas) that AFAIR doesn't use cyanides.
Then there is fire gilding/amalgam gilding where you dissolve gold in mercury, paint it onto the item and heat it to drive off the mercury. Also not a great process to indulge in.

Dennis
31-10-2012, 09:55 AM
At its most basic you can sweat solder thin gold sheet, say 0.3mm to thicker silver sheet for instance 1.0mm, and then roll down to suit or hammer to thin and texture it.

Here is a brooch I made in this way when I first started. Dennis.

silken
31-10-2012, 04:32 PM
I use a pen plating system from spa plating and it's great! I generally use it for selective plating of small silver pieces and it, well, does what it says on the tin. I use the battery version as it was the cheapest option available as you don't need to use it with a rectifier and extra leads. It's probably the easiest way to apply gold to silver as far as I'm concerned. I've used the keum boo method before but found it fiddly, especially on intricate pieces. You can also buy accent gold which is a paint of sorts:

http://cooksongold.co.uk/

It consists of fine powdered gold suspended in a binder. You apply it as you would a paint then fire the piece. A lot of people use it with PMC & fine silver. The downside is, it is very expensive. Investing in a plating system would be more cost effective over time. Just be careful to buy the plating chemicals from a reputable supplier as some less reputable ones water down the solutions, hence reducing the amount of gold content.

Sandra
07-05-2014, 05:35 PM
I've got a new project idea in mind but of course it involves techniques I've never tried before! Actually I'm not sure what to use for one area, I want to etch some small areas on the silver background and somehow make the recessed etched area gold. I have read about Keum Boo however I'm not sure spending so much money on gold foil is something I want to do until I get a little better at all this. Do you suppose gold leaf or even gold enamel might work?

CJ57
07-05-2014, 05:52 PM
This was one of my keum boo pieces for the OS, it's slightly challenging if you are looking for perfection but I really enjoyed using it for the first time and the effects on the various pieces I produced are very different.6074

mizgeorge
07-05-2014, 05:57 PM
Gold solder flooded into small areas works well for this as well Sandra.

Sandra
07-05-2014, 07:35 PM
Oh thanks guys! I like the idea of gold solder and the price looks great too. I want to try Keum Boo too but will save that for a little later. I'm curious about the melting point of easy gold solder vs. easy silver solder?

Dennis
07-05-2014, 07:58 PM
Taken from the new Cookson printed catalogue, the brazing temperatures, i.e. the temperatures for soldering are:

Silver easy 755°C,
9ct yellow gold easy 750°C
18ct yellow easy 750°C. So very similar. Dennis.

camalidesign
07-05-2014, 08:27 PM
I have also thought about starting to use gold overlaid on silver, so far I only use it as accents e.g. gold granules or thin sheet etc.

So, my question would be, what plating system to get from Spa? I want to use it for plating small recesses such as e.g. a small shape cut out in sheet, soldered onto backplate, as well as other projects such as just plating sort of random areas on e.g. textured pieces. Any advice from those who have bought the various options they have available, would be much appreciated!

Also, how is plating in recesses best done, by soldering together first and then plating, or does this not give very neat/accurate results around a recessed area? How thin is the tip of the plating pen? Alternatives? Plating the backplate first and then soldering on the front with the cutout??

Also, having not given keum-boo a go yet, what is the difference in thickness between that and electroplating? Probably a stupid question, depends on what thickness gold foil you use etc, but if you don't ask you don't find out! :)

Lots of questions! :)

Carin

CJ57
07-05-2014, 08:39 PM
Hi Carin
I bought my foil from cookies and it says it's 2.5 microns but you can layer it to get the desired effect. It was even possible to burnish in inverted domes but I could have done with smaller burnishers. It was possible to do the fold formed tucks on the piece I pictured but it needed a couple of goes and it was easier to do gently over a torch than a hotplate

LydiaNiz
07-05-2014, 09:23 PM
I have so fallen in love with Keum-Boo. I wish I hadn't bothered with a hotplate too. Much easier with a torch. There is a fair whack of it on my site. I also use the stuff from Cookies. No plating experience though sorry x

CJ57
07-05-2014, 09:36 PM
I have so fallen in love with Keum-Boo. I wish I hadn't bothered with a hotplate too. Much easier with a torch. There is a fair whack of it on my site. I also use the stuff from Cookies. No plating experience though sorry x
I think it was actually you saying you used a torch Lydia that made me try it. I go between the torch and the plate depending on what I'm doing and what shape

camalidesign
11-05-2014, 02:51 PM
Thanks Caroline. And Lydia, good to know that a hotplate is not needed, at least initially for keum-boo.

I wonder what would be the easiest, electroplating or keum-boo?.... I want to add gold accents on random areas e.g. on textured pieces. Does anyone have advice on wich method to use, or is it just a matter of taste and what you have to hand?

Carin

CJ57
11-05-2014, 06:16 PM
I would suppose it would depend on the piece and whether you use fine silver or are prepared for the faff of depletion gilding if not for keum boo. Re the hot plate, I have an ancient iron plate that I use if I do use the hot plate and I suppose a griddle pan or suchlike would do just as well.
I was happy with the keum boo once I found I could really build up the layers if I needed it to look really substantial. I think I maybe had 2 layers on the pendant I showed to get a richer effect but my other pieces were more random. Burnishing texture might be more difficult, I definitely need finer burnishers as the fold formed parts needed extra work. I've never done electro plating so I'm a bit biased:)

camalidesign
12-05-2014, 09:31 AM
Thanks Caroline!

LydiaNiz
12-05-2014, 09:38 AM
I haven't done plating either. Texture I've not found a problem with the keum-boo, I have killed a couple of agate burnishers though by not paying attention to how hot they were getting :-(

camalidesign
12-05-2014, 09:41 AM
Thanks Lydia,

I think perhaps I will try both, and tonight I will be taking my Celie Fago Keum-boo book to bed! :)

Carin

Didi
12-05-2014, 03:55 PM
Hi Carin
I use the electroplating pen from Spa plating. excellent results, cheap, no problems. Wouldn't want to use it on an area with heavy wear but for accents I don't reckon you can beat it. Will try and post pics later.
Didi

camalidesign
12-05-2014, 10:32 PM
That would be great Didi. Yes, I mostly plan to use it for plating recesses so should be OK. Do you have the battery pen with the 3 replaceable batteries for about £115?

Carin

Sandra
27-05-2014, 07:22 AM
So...I'm going to try my hand at Keum Boo! Though I'm using gold leaf instead of foil and realise I will probably need to layer to get good results but that's fine. I'm curious, some people here have mentioned using a torch instead of hot plate. I haven't found this method in any of my books or online videos. I'm assuming you heat from underneath the piece then? I haven't bought the hot plate yet and not sure if it's necessary. They aren't expensive but I don't really have space to waste. There is another jewellery maker whom I really admire who often uses gold leaf on her pieces but puts them in a kiln instead of a hot plate (but I don't have one of those either!).

Another thing I'm wondering about, once you "Keum boo" an area, can you continue to do any soldering elsewhere or should the Keum boo be the last step in the design?

Sandra
27-05-2014, 10:22 AM
I just found this info, looks like I probably need to buy that hotplate: http://www.cooksongold.com/blog/jewellery-tips/technique-focus-keum-boo

CJ57
27-05-2014, 11:31 AM
I have an old iron plate that I put on the hob, I did wonder about a flat griddle pan. I found that holding above a flame no bigger than a cooks torch so the wee Cookson handheld, moving it all the time does the job more quickly and as you say heat from underneath. I go between the torch and the plate for more complicated area.
You have to do your soldering first or the gold will just melt into the silver especially if you are using leaf rather than foil. I had to use a few layers of foil in places to get the effect I wanted so not sure how the leaf will be but it's worth a try