firestain product

[hayley]

Hi all, i recently did a bit of work in a jewellers and they used a purple liquid to prevent firestain, dipped to silver into it and set it on fire before soldering, i would like to know what this product is called and where i can get it from, ive looked through cooksons website but i havnt seen anything like it although its a bit dificult trying to find a product when you dont know what its called, any ideas ?

[ps_bond]

Was it a premade product or something in an unmarked jar?
If it's the latter, it may have been boric acid in methylated spirits? (Boric acid is more soluble in methanol than ethanol, BTW)

There are a few alternatives - Argotect & Magic Boric are the 2 that spring to mind.

[Dennis]

Yes, that's what I've bee using for years and it goes on better if your metal is slightly warmed before applying it. Recently I have been using up Walshes Fast Flux Soldering Solution, which is a blueish colour and is something similar judging by the lovely alcoholic smell.

All these remedies including Argotect, help towards avoiding fire scale but cant prevent it entirely if you don't reduce the sharp blue cone of your flame to make it more bushy, or if you heat for a prolonged period.

You should also be cautious about having a bottle of an alcoholic solution within range of your flame. Dennis.

[art925]

Reading the make up instructions; Argotect can also be made up using water and a detergent they suggest teepol. This will remove the danger of using meths by an open flame...and welcome.

[hayley]

arh thank you very much, the jar was unmarked. i have brought myself some magic borax which isnt the same but i havnt noticed any firestain since ive started to use it :Y:

[Keia]

I use the boric acid & methylated spirits solution as a firecoat, but I only use it when I'm annealing. I find I don't need to use a firecoat during soldering, as most fluxes have a firecoat already in them =)
The video I learned how to make up the solution was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQr8MPXsghU
The boric acid is easily available from most DIY shops or even online, sold as cockroach killer powder. I got a huge box online for a fiver.

[ps_bond]

I've just sent a batch off for assay where I've used either Magic Boric or Argotect.

*ALL* of the pieces where I've used Magic Boric had firestain. None of the pieces that had Argotect showed any.

Conclusion? Either I'm not using it right or it's not really up to the job.

[Keia]

I've just sent a batch off for assay where I've used either Magic Boric or Argotect.

*ALL* of the pieces where I've used Magic Boric had firestain. None of the pieces that had Argotect showed any.

Conclusion? Either I'm not using it right or it's not really up to the job.

Doesn't sound like it's up to the job & thanks for that info - I was looking into boric acid/meths alternatives (the solution doesn't keep very well, I've had mine about 3 months or so & it's no longer coating items properly), sounds like the Argotect is the way to go =)

[ps_bond]

Well, I'm still prepared to go with "or I'm using it wrong". I don't seem to get the coverage, surface tension pulls the stuff into droplets (much the same with part-cleaned sheets for mokume - wonder if that's the trick?). I know some people use it and seem quite happy with it, but I'm left feeling it's a bit "Emporer's New Clothes". For me, anyway.

[Dennis]

Solutions coat better if the metal is warmed first, but I suppose you all know that. I once started a thread with the words 'All the girls love Magic Boris' but showed in my test pieces that plenty of firescale built up using it. However love is blind.

I also hope David Bagley will let us know how he deals with firescale when hot forging, which must be the ultimate test.

For a long time I have wondered whether you could induce an even firestain throughout, on the principle that if you cant beat it join it. Dennis

[ps_bond]

That's how I'd normally apply FM solution (warmed metal, atomiser), but warming the metal before dunking in the Magic Boric seemed to cool it nicely and negate any benefit of prewarming.

FM's great stuff, but a pest to apply (well, to only the object you want coated at least). Anything smaller than a mouth atomiser invariably clogs as the solution dries on the nozzle.

I'd hazard a guess that David is either scrubbing it out with pumice or plating over it...

[Wallace]

I have some magic boris... hate the stuff - it sits taunting me at my failure to apply it and make it work. I feel like dooling on the bottle it came in just to mock back at it... or stick something on it to disguise it. Free to a good home (but postage will need to be met).

I like Prips and Argo-tect. But sometimes forget to unblock the sprayer for the prips as it crystalises really very quickly. Show it some atmosphere and there it goes, getting a jiggy with the air and crystalising in the atomiser!


Interestingly Walsh sell Cookies Argo-tect for about £5 less than cookies (before VAT) ... so it may be worth asking for this to be re-evaluated - unless there is a free post day. So, if you are shopping at Walshes anyway......

[lilia]

I have some magic boris... hate the stuff - it sits taunting me at my failure to apply it and make it work. I feel like dooling on the bottle it came in just to mock back at it... or stick something on it to disguise it. Free to a good home (but postage will need to be met).

I like Prips and Argo-tect. But sometimes forget to unblock the sprayer for the prips as it crystalises really very quickly. Show it some atmosphere and there it goes, getting a jiggy with the air and crystalising in the atomiser!


Interestingly Walsh sell Cookies Argo-tect for about £5 less than cookies (before VAT) ... so it may be worth asking for this to be re-evaluated - unless there is a free post day. So, if you are shopping at Walshes anyway......

Hate my magic boris too - awful stuff, doesn't do anything at all - mine is free to a good home too.

I use 'My T Flux' from Rio, like it on gold, however not impressed how it works on silver - still looking for something better. Tried firescoff, but could get on with it either.

[Tabby66]

Hate my magic boris too - awful stuff, doesn't do anything at all - mine is free to a good home too.

I use 'My T Flux' from Rio, like it on gold, however not impressed how it works on silver - still looking for something better. Tried firescoff, but could get on with it either.

Okay...........so I too have a bottle of the non-magic boric stuff,........what boris couldn't do with fire-stain he seems to have succeeded with marketing!!!!
Another bottle available free to a good home!!

I've tried and really really liked firescoff, however the spray nozzle blocked in no time......does anyone have any suggestions to unblock it please??

[lilia]

Okay...........so I too have a bottle of the non-magic boric stuff,........what boris couldn't do with fire-stain he seems to have succeeded with marketing!!!!
Another bottle available free to a good home!!

I've tried and really really liked firescoff, however the spray nozzle blocked in no time......does anyone have any suggestions to unblock it please??

Mine used to get blocked - just run it under very hot water and it should be ok. Perhaps I'll give it another try.

[Tabby66]

Mine used to get blocked - just run it under very hot water and it should be ok. Perhaps I'll give it another try.

Thanks Lilia, will try that :)

[mizgeorge]

I'll happily take all that boris off your hands chaps... I have a couple of specific pieces I make that it works brilliantly for.....

[Dennis]

Even in the mail, a started bottle of Boris is not to be relied on, George. It will happily wet a whole bag of letters. Regards, Dennis.

[Wallace]

Looks like a good excuse to suffocate ...... I mean securely cover Boris. Remind me of your addy George and I will get it out to you. Xx

[ps_bond]

OK, so there *is* someone for whom it works! What's the secret George?

[ps_bond]

OK, new experiment:

Jump rings straight from the tumbler, rinsed, patted dry and immersed in Magic Boric. Warmed with a heat gun to start them drying - let's see if I get an even coat like this...

I noticed there's quite a lot of precipitate at the bottom of the bottle too - hopefully that just means it's a saturated solution.

[Tabby66]

OK, so there *is* someone for whom it works! What's the secret George?

Yes please George, what is your secret?? " questions before it wings it's way to you!!

1. How do you use it??
2. What sort of 'specific pieces' do you use it on??

Thanks for your help :)