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Obsidian Butterfly
01-10-2012, 12:05 PM
Hi
Ive beem asked to make a ring from d shaped wire. its 11mm wide and 3mm high. Ive measured and cut the ring but i am having trouble with the solder, it doesnt flow through the seam all the way. I tried soldering from both sides but its still not working. Is it that my torch isnt hot enough, or is there a specia technique. It needs to be finished by wed so any help would be brilliant. Thanks

Keia
01-10-2012, 12:30 PM
It could be a heat problem. Build your heat bricks to form like an oven shape - two sides, a back and a roof, to help reflect the heat back on to the peice. When your flux turns red, remove the roof from your "oven" and direct the heat to where you want the solder to flow. It works for me, I hope it works for you =)

Goldsmith
01-10-2012, 12:42 PM
Laura,
You didn't say what metal you are making the ring from. But there is a general rule when soldering thicker items and that is to heat the whole item, keeping the flame away from being directed to the solder. Only when the whole piece is hot do you play the flame on the solder area. Add solder to one side of the seam and heat the opposite side as the solder will run towards the heat. With a ring this size I would stick three pallions of solder, using flux, to the outer face of the ring and heat the ring by rotating the flame around the whole inner circumference until the solder runs. Usually if the solder does not run smoothly then the solder is being heated too quickly and reaches it's melting point before the metal to be soldered is at the correct temperature. In simple terms the metal to be soldered must reach the melting point of the solder for it to solder perfectly.
I hope this is not too long winded an answer.
James

Patstone
02-10-2012, 04:53 AM
Hi James, I have had the same problem, the middle solders perfectly but the edges dont. I have on the odd occasion used a thin sliver of silver to fill the joint and solder again, as I think sometimes I havent filed the ends square. I wish there was a tool that I could use that would allow me to file the ends really square, any ideas would be welcome. Would a tube cutter work in this situation.

Goldsmith
02-10-2012, 07:17 AM
Hi James, I have had the same problem, the middle solders perfectly but the edges dont. I have on the odd occasion used a thin sliver of silver to fill the joint and solder again, as I think sometimes I havent filed the ends square. I wish there was a tool that I could use that would allow me to file the ends really square, any ideas would be welcome. Would a tube cutter work in this situation.
Hi Pat,
Tube cutters or joint tools are a useful tool for your kit but they only work well on round or square wires and tubes, D shape wires would be difficult.
If I am making a ring shank and the joint edges are not fitting well, I just bend the ring shank into shape, closing the solder joint as tight as possible then, with my saw frame loaded with a size 0 blade, I pierce through the closed joint of the ring shank before soldering and this will help make both surfaces flat and close fitting for soldering.
James

Patstone
02-10-2012, 07:31 AM
That's a good idea, I have tried cutting through both pieces at the same time but you can guarantee that one will move. I will try that next time I make a ring, thank you.

Obsidian Butterfly
02-10-2012, 11:10 AM
Thanks everyone,
Should probably have mentioned that it is silver D wire, but I have come to the conclusion that my torch just cannot get the piece hot enough for the solder to flow through the joint completely. I was using the same method I have used on every other ring, where I place pallions of solder on the joint, and heat the ring until it is up to temp and the solder flows, then flip the ring and use heat to pull the solder through. However my torch is getting hot, before the silver is getting hot enough. It is fine when annealing, but when I placed the ring in a third hand for soldering, the tweezers are drawing so much heat, I can't get it hot enough.

However, I had an idea and wondered if it would work. Instead of placing the solder on the joint, would it work to sweat solder onto one edge of the joint, and then place them together, and heat again. This would mean that the solder would already be all the way through the joint and would just need to be heated to join it? What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks

Goldsmith
02-10-2012, 11:47 AM
However, I had an idea and wondered if it would work. Instead of placing the solder on the joint, would it work to sweat solder onto one edge of the joint, and then place them together, and heat again. This would mean that the solder would already be all the way through the joint and would just need to be heated to join it? What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks[/QUOTE]
I would not think this would work, I was taught that solder does not fill gaps and that joints to be soldered will work best with tight fitting joints. I assume that you are using binding wire or clamps to hold the solder joints together, I never use third hands, I use my home made stainless steel clamps to position and hold items when soldering.
I have posted this before and am sorry if you have seen this already, but this shows details of my clamps.
James

3884

mizgeorge
02-10-2012, 12:25 PM
If it's just a straight joint, you shouldn't need to be holding it with anything. Make sure the edges are really, really tight - work them past eachother a couple of times before snapping into place (like using a jump ring), and then try working on a surface that will help you with the heat - I prefer charcoal for this, but you could also build a little 'furnace' from bits of soldering board. I only use a third hand when I actively want to keep a piece cooler - for example when joining a bail or ring to a larger piece, and certainly can't think of any time when it would be useful soldering the main join in a ring.

Dennis
02-10-2012, 05:41 PM
Much of this has been said one way or another, but your wire is quite heavy and at the limits of what a mini torch can handle, even when building a furnace with bricks. So life will take a turn for the better if you get a hotter torch.

As the adjoining surfaces are large it is more important than ever to have a close fitting joint. This is achieved by having the ends in contact and then if light shows through, sawing through again almost vertically. Bear in mind though that the ring will become one size smaller for every mm lost in this way.

Lastly in some cases the ends persist in parting again when heated. Applying more heat on the side of the shank opposite the join tends to keep the ends together, but if all else fails use binding wire across the ring to stop the gap opening. Dennis.

Kate
17-10-2012, 04:26 PM
I had this same problem and bought a nimrod pt500 which is fantastic for getting larger pieces hot enough and the solder flows beautifully now. xx