1 Year to perfect it, but where to start

[Toni]

Afternoon all,

Hope your well... :)

I was not planning on posting this so soon after joining, as wanted to settle in first, however in light of the task and the time scale i thought if i speak now i could at least know where to go for advice :)

on the 6th September 2013 my best friend over MANY years is getting married...and i have been asked to make her wedding ring #-o

she clearly has more faith in me than i do myself, but needless to say i am NOT going to let her down.


The design is simple...well simplier than i thought it was going to be.

a single crossed over band with a single diamond, to almost match her engagement ring.

although i have worked with silver, i have never worked with gold, and most defenitly not worked with White gold, 18ct to be exact.

the diamond is going to set in the ring, flush with the surface, so is only a small one, i feel some what confident about the setting at the moment, and am planning on practicing with silver first, but i know silver is different to gold. so my question is after my usual fashion (essay) how different are they, i have done some research and found that cracking is likely, as i am not planning on casting the ring, due to lack of equipment (this is just a hobbie for me, i get people to buy the materials and i make their designs, never asking for money, so funding for equipment is not there) i will need to bend the strip or whatever i decide to use into the correct size, up and over each other to make the cross...

seriously though, what am i getting myself into, how different are silver and gold, and if i practice with silver will the out come with the gold be the same?

cheers guys

[Dennis]

Hi, you are unlikely to have any problems making the band as it will work much like silver, particularly if you use Auflux/Auroflux as the flux for soldering and if soldering on a block, then use charcoal.
Many of us use this flux routinely for silver too as it is less prone to expand (flower) when heated.

As for setting the stone, there is a problem with D-shaped and oval wire, that the setting will be rather shallow at the edges of the ring, making it vulnerable to loosening in use. The remedy is to choose a shallow domed wire if available, or a rectangular wire and have at least a spare mm at each side of the stone.
You will also find the metal harder than you experience with silver. If still in doubt after some practice, employ a professional setter.

Lastly unless the engagement ring is made of the same, you will find 18ct white gold rather grey in colour, and a poor match. In some cases 9ct white might be a better choice and is very durable over the period I have observed (about 17years for my first wedding band) Dennis.

As an afterthought, if you are inexperianced practice with copper first.

[caroleallen]

I prefer 9ct too in that it's closer in colour to silver.

[Toni]

Thank you for the advice, it helps that im talking to people who know what they are talking about :D

I believe her engagment ring is 18ct, but will double check. We will be using a retangular shape wire, possibly sheet as i cant find the measurements i need in the wire.

i am doing research at the moment about the "details" that comes with the gold, like strengths and annealing etc. I know my diamonds now as ive been researching and understanding what certs and gradings for the last couple of weeks. (i love research :">) but in the mean time am going to crack on with Trial silver rings...hoping to have made at least 3 by christmas

[Dennis]

Quote [We will be using a rectangular shape wire, possibly sheet as i cant find the measurements i need in the wire.]

OK Toni, if you get your bullion dealer to supply ready cut strip rather than rectangular wire, bear in mind that the bench shear will pinch one side to give it a bevel.

So you must file it off, or file the other side to match. Anything else, just shout. Dennis.

[Toni]

thank you :) your a star

[Toni]

Morning,

Well i bought some silver to make a mock ring before spending money on the white gold. and last night i tried to make it...needless to say it didnt go well :(
What was i expecting, perfect on first attempt.

Her ring size is P, so i thought i would order 7cm of silver, thinking this would be long enough for the cross over, aparently not! Ok not a problem, ill continue using this piece of silver to see how i would make the cross over at the top. It soon however became evident that this was not going to work.

What she is after is something like this

3930

I am now wondering if my original thought, that it needed to be casted, is the correct one, rather than trying to bend the material. I can get the top layer right, its getting the one below to bend in a S sort of shape and then blend into the side of the ring.

I cant seem to find any guides on line as to how you would make such a ring.

I think i have underestimated how difficult this could actually be :) typical of me really.

So ive got a couple of ideas of how to achieve this, and i guess its going to be trial and error, unless someone has attempted this before (please say yes lol)


Ideas are as follows,

Attempt to flatten the ends so that they are at a point/triangle angle before sanding out a grove under the top piece to get the ends flush with the main part of the ring.

or

cut two piece and cross them over and solder together, shape into the top half of the ring, then attach the bottom half of the ring sanding away the ends of the top half it the same thickness as the bottom half. problem i can see with this is figuring out how much material i will need.

or

Create the ring, and add a piece to the underside/sides of the ring to make it look like 2 piece crossed over

So far the piece of silver i have bents and played with is ruined now, so i will have to disgard that and order some more, i can see this trial and error method becoming expensive.

cheers

Toni

[Dennis]

Mm, you are struggling a bit, but that is only to be expected, since a professional jeweller would take some years of training to to this.

First of all, I should do all the practicing in copper, as it is cheap enough to throw away.

If I were doing this I would wind my wire closely three times around a slightly undersized rod, trim and solder. Then I would gently stretch to size with my ring stretcher.

If you go the wax route, which is by no means easy to get right by hand, you would still need a caster to complete the process. A company such as this will take over some or all of your problems http://www.laserjewellery.co.uk/services.html#all

Dennis.

[silken]

To get a ring anywhere similar to the one pictured, I'd get it cast. Have you thought about wax carving and then sending it to a professional caster? It's not as expensive as you might imagine. There are ways that a ring could be hand forged to produce something similar but it would probably be difficult for you to get a nice smooth, continuous ring. Casting is a much better choice for this design :)

[caroleallen]

I would definitely get it cast. It shouldn't be too hard to carve it in wax. How will you set the stone? At least if you only have one stone to set you won't have to tackle channel setting.

[Toni]

Apartently the little dove has changed her mind about design. although i am still interested in making one like the above. i will not be beaten :)

Wax casting was my original thought, and the stone would be flush with the surface. i am glad you pros think this too.

Copper, never thought of using that for mock ups!

I will update you on my progress with this, and what design my friend comes up with...tut...copper...why didnt i think of that lol

[Toni]

So the design is a simple single band, with 5 stones, flush with the surface, once i get the proto up and running ill post a picture.

Going to contact some diamond suppliers and get some prices :)

Just got to work out how to set the stone without damaging the gold, when setting in silver i end up with sratch marks where i am pinching the top over the stone....practice :)

[Toni]

4239

this is what we are going for :)

[ps_bond]

One of my early flush-setting experiments -

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1137/1283411629_b42da382a3_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/88787044@N00/1283411629/)

I'd strongly recommend the Blaine Lewis DVD on flush setting - yes, I know it's expensive, but it is very, very good (as I've enthused before).

[Dennis]

Well that at least avoids the necessity for casting. Its easy enough to make yourself, or even to buy one ready made. You will note from my earlier post and Peter's example that the stones need to be well protected by metal on each side.

You will also need to practice if you have not done so already, to mark out accurately using dividers, the positions for the pilot holes of your settings.

The starting pits can then be made with a tiny ball burr, rather than a punch.

The holes are best drilled using a mini-pillar drill, such as the smallest Proxxon, or a vertical stand for your present handpiece.

The ring needs to be fixed vertically and moved for each hole in a mini drill vice. The jaws of the vice are made safe with masking tape. Dennis.

[Toni]

One of my early flush-setting experiments -

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1137/1283411629_b42da382a3_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/88787044@N00/1283411629/)

I'd strongly recommend the Blaine Lewis DVD on flush setting - yes, I know it's expensive, but it is very, very good (as I've enthused before).

that is beautiful.

Ah yes it is expensive...mind you i guess if i want to do it right, i need to do it properly.

[ps_bond]

A plain oval wire band ring with some holes in it, really. I *think* that was after I got my Foredom - trying to cut stone sets with a Dremel is not good for the nerves (or safety) - it spins far too fast and the lack of foot control makes it all a bit iffy. The main tools used for the setting work were a 1mm drill bit, bud burrs, setting burrs and a needle burnisher. Oh, and a suitable ring clamp.

[Wallace]

One of my early flush-setting experiments -

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1137/1283411629_b42da382a3_z.jpg?zz=1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/88787044@N00/1283411629/)

I'd strongly recommend the Blaine Lewis DVD on flush setting - yes, I know it's expensive, but it is very, very good (as I've enthused before).


A most excellent DVD

you may find it useful to have a look at some of Alan Revere's tips too.. I would offer the JCK website, but it loads adds all the time!

4240 this is a ring I made for my lad for his year 11 'prom' With a little help from watching the video.

It isn't on D Wire, but it was great fun to make.

[Toni]

Well i think i am getting their, i have the stones and material, and am working on my mock ring

At the moment i am managing about a 20% success rate, but have contacted someone for a price to set the stones if it gets too close and i havent achieve 95-100%

Although in theory i am doing it right, (mind you if i was doing it right i would have success lol) when i come to actually making the seat for the stone, my burr doesnt actually seem to be doing anything (strange as its new) but none the less i have a theory about this...not lubricating it aparently.....im sure ill get there...

Unfortunately i have no pictures for the time being...my mock ring consists of only holes, toying with the idea of just hammering it flat once done (still ring shape) might look good...might not

OOoooo trial and error :D

[Dennis]

You're right. Lubricate with a little 3-IN-ONE oil and once drilled, you can turn the burrs by hand in a pin vice, (also called universal handle Cookson 999AZM) for the best accuracy and for conserving burrs.

If funds allow, get two, to save changing burrs, but if you are making tiny undercuts, you will still need a scorper, or a handpiece for the tiny burr. http://www.cooksongold.com/category_select.jsp?query=999+AZM
Dennis.

[Toni]

Good Morning Dennis,

thats a great tip thank you ever so much :D

[Toni]

I've been reading up a lot on various methods, and using websites you guys have recommended....after a couple of failed attempts, I finally found that having two hands was better than just one...this is the out come :)

using a bench to hold the ring clamp, so I had both hands to guide the drill, and also set the stones, helped instead of using one hand to hold the ring clamp and the other to do al the work :) i'm happy...more practice need though


4961

[caroleallen]

I think you should be very pleased with yourself Toni. Well done.

[Toni]

thank you, it took me all day to do it, but and extremely excited about it.

Wouldn't of been able to do it with out every ones help.

:)

[Dennis]

Looks like you're well within your time limit then. Well done.

[Toni]

So, the ring is now in shape, and ready for size check, and then the stone setting.

I was surprised at how hard the 18ct was to bend into shape, the silver was easy compared to the gold. I thought 18ct was soft. None the less its the right shape now and ready for testing.

[Dennis]

So, the ring is now in shape, and ready for size check, and then the stone setting.I was surprised at how hard the 18ct was to bend into shape, the silver was easy compared to the gold. I thought 18ct was soft.

Yes, it is quite hard and will be a little tougher to push over the stones too. Dennis.

[Toni]

Yes, it is quite hard and will be a little tougher to push over the stones too. Dennis.

oh um....hadn't thought of that...oh well I am in this far, no turning back now I suppose :D

there is probably going to be a lot of cursing over then next weekend, but I have to say so far I have enjoyed learning new skills, as much as they need a lot of work...don't think ill make another wedding ring though, not one made of gold...talk about pressure lol

[Gemsetterchris]

You need to tackle jobs with abit of confidence, your going outside your comfort zone that's all :)
You have the ability, just get it done!
Sooner or later you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

[Toni]

thank you :)

[Toni]

5088

So the wedding was on Friday and it was an amazing day.

Everything went well, and luckily the weather held out.

Here is the ring I made with his ring (I didn't make) sorry about the quality of photo...

She loved it and hopefully all the stones will stay put, I did test them by pushing them from behind and none moved, so fingers cross.

Thanks for your help guys....I've really appreciated it.

On to the next project :)

Toni

[caroleallen]

That's lovely Toni.

[Dennis]

Well done Toni. You deserve a few shorter projects now.

[Wallace]

Great work! Hope you get to make lots more things.

[Toni]

Think I might work on making a replacement bracelet of the one my mum lost...

thanks guys. :D