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Di Sandland
12-06-2012, 09:27 PM
After playing with numerous ways of adding colour to my work I've finally come to the (inevitable) conclusion that I have to learn enamelling. At least it will make use of my poor virginal 4 year old kiln!

Actually, the kiln is no longer virginal, cos I've started playing already - I'm putting together a sampler of how different transparent colours look depending on what they are laid over - so clear flux, foil, nothing, and white.

So far, I've counter-enamelled 20 copper rectangles ready for starting the 'real' colour work. And already I have questions, to which I'm not sure if there are concrete answers. I know Carole enamels but I'm not sure about anybody else but I'd like input from everybody who knows something no matter how tiny that something might be.



I've noticed that different colours seem to need varying amounts of time in the kiln, is there any rule of thumb of determining this in advance or is it a matter of trial and error followed by experience
The same goes with kiln temperature - I've set my kiln at 800 degrees C; there was such a variety of temperatures given on different websites and books and 800 seemed to be about the median.
Do you finish your enamels off by rubbing them down (grinding more like) at the end?


Thank you

x

caroleallen
12-06-2012, 09:38 PM
Hi Di,

1. I think you've hit the nail on the head.

2. 800's fine for opaques on copper. For transparents on silver I generally go up to 830.

3. I'd only grind down if I had a metal edge (cloison) to grind down to. If you're sifting onto copper, I wouldn't bother.

Kwant
12-06-2012, 09:40 PM
I am waiting for my kiln to arrive Di, it is due around the 20th. I have the enamels and stuff ready to start and I am currently resisting the temptation to have a go with the torch.......... taps fingers :0)

I have never tried it and will have to go by that which I have been told and read about, still it is quite exciting.

Di Sandland
12-06-2012, 09:40 PM
Thanks Carole - I ain't arf enjoying meself!

Di Sandland
12-06-2012, 09:43 PM
Cornelius (that is your name isn't it?) - I was tempted by the torch too, even bought the book! But that wasn't/isn't the effect I want to achieve so I was very restrained - not something I'm usually very good at. It's a bit like magic - or alchemy at least - and it all happens so quickly. Superficially it is very very easy but I suspect to get the results I'm looking for it will take a lot of practice and lots of swearing

caroleallen
12-06-2012, 09:45 PM
I love it too but it gets a bit more stressful on silver. I've discovered that I can make little cups to hold enamel with my hydraulic press, which means I don't have to worry about solder ruining my piece.

Kwant
12-06-2012, 09:47 PM
Yes it is Di

and oh noes more stressful on silver yikes!!!!

Di Sandland
12-06-2012, 09:49 PM
Carole, I was always jealous of your hydraulic press - I'm even more so now!

Goldsmith
13-06-2012, 07:31 AM
Di, get yourself some half round scorpers and have a go at cutting your patterns and enamel edges. Check out this V&A video, it shows Jane Short enamelling a brooch and you can see her using a half round scorper for cutting and texturing.
All of my translucent enamelled flowers have had textures cut on their petals by me pre enamelling. Not my enamelling though, I have expert friends who specialize in enamelling. I know you have my book Di, but for those who do not here are a couple of photos of my flowers.

James

3655 3656

Di Sandland
13-06-2012, 08:37 AM
Thanks James - I knew you'd pop your head over the parapet on this one (because of the spectacular enamelling your friends have applied to your work) :)

Di Sandland
13-06-2012, 08:38 AM
Oh and there was no link for the video :-(

ps_bond
13-06-2012, 08:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV0fej_sU10

Goldsmith
13-06-2012, 10:59 AM
Thanks Peter, I forgot to add the link to the V&A video as my wife was chasing me to get off the computer so we could go for a walk in the park while the sun was shining.

James

ps_bond
13-06-2012, 11:02 AM
It occurred to me that I hadn't tried embedding a video, so it was a technical test as much as anything.

I'd rather be out in the sunshine!

caroleallen
13-06-2012, 11:07 AM
What sunshine?

Di Sandland
13-06-2012, 11:34 AM
Thanks Peter.

Carole, you're not that far from me and we have sunshine here!

caroleallen
13-06-2012, 11:42 AM
Thanks Peter.

Carole, you're not that far from me and we have sunshine here!

Don't rub it in Di! :)

Goldsmith
13-06-2012, 11:58 AM
We went for a walk in Savill Garden, a part of Windsor Great Park and these are a couple of photos that I took.
James

36593660

ps_bond
13-06-2012, 12:31 PM
What sunshine?

*Hypothetical* sunshine... At least it isn't raining.

Yet.

Di Sandland
13-06-2012, 01:03 PM
Thank you James and Peter, I have now wasted half of my day watching you-tube videos of enamelling. I should have been:



building my new website
soldering some bangles
getting washing on the line
cleaning some copper prior to etching


I suppose it was informative but I'm a sucker for diversionary tactics

Kwant
13-06-2012, 05:40 PM
Well having had my scare about the stress involved, today I ordered my copy of the book suggested by Carole, by Linda Darty. It had better relieve some of the stress or I might have to stamp my feet and ............... well it wont be pretty.

caroleallen
13-06-2012, 06:58 PM
Well having had my scare about the stress involved, today I ordered my copy of the book suggested by Carole, by Linda Darty. It had better relieve some of the stress or I might have to stamp my feet and ............... well it wont be pretty.

You'll love it.

Di Sandland
13-06-2012, 08:53 PM
I have that and it's brilliant. I also have Enamelling on Precious Metals by Jeanne Wenge-Hartley http://www.amazon.co.uk/Enamelling-Precious-Metals-Jeanne-Werge-Hartley/dp/1847972055/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339620609&sr=1-1 which is also fabulous and seems to complement the Linda Darty one really well.

I also have the Beginners Guide to Enamelling by Dorothy Cockrell http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginners-Guide-Enamelling-Dorothy-Cockrell/dp/1903975611/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339620734&sr=1-1 which I wasn't too impressed with - it is very very basic and has an old fashioned feel to it.

Dennis
13-06-2012, 09:33 PM
Stop it you two. I'm definitely not starting on enameling. Definitely not. No.

Di Sandland
13-06-2012, 10:02 PM
Oh, but Dennis, you would love it - always something new to learn and the colours are vibrant and jewel-like...

Dennis
14-06-2012, 09:46 AM
Oh, but Dennis, you would love it.

I know once I started, it would take over my whole life. Adam bit into the fruit of the tree of knowledge and look where it got us, other than giving jobs to midwives.

Dennis.

Di Sandland
14-06-2012, 09:54 AM
I'm a retired one of them (midwives), so don't knock it Dennis!

medusa
15-06-2012, 03:59 PM
I do a bit of enamelling, mostly fixing up damaged art nouveau bits and bobs I pick up on ebay to resell. When I do it the kiln is at about 750. I should stress though that I'm pretty conservative in what I do and stick with what works.

For the record the way I go about it is to remove all the old enamel in hydrofluoric acid (scary job!) and then I give a really good polish and wash. I have so far had good results other than one rather lovely deco pendant and a Mott dragonfly. This was because the silver formed bubbles under the enamel. Rather gallingly I'm going to have to probably scrap the dragonfly :(

Di Sandland
15-06-2012, 04:15 PM
I do a bit of enamelling, mostly fixing up damaged art nouveau bits and bobs I pick up on ebay to resell. When I do it the kiln is at about 750. I should stress though that I'm pretty conservative in what I do and stick with what works.

For the record the way I go about it is to remove all the old enamel in hydrofluoric acid (scary job!) and then I give a really good polish and wash. I have so far had good results other than one rather lovely deco pendant and a Mott dragonfly. This was because the silver formed bubbles under the enamel. Rather gallingly I'm going to have to probably scrap the dragonfly :(

What a shame about the dragonfly! :-( I love art nouveau and doing what you do had never occurred to me; it will be a while before I'm confident enough to do that though. Hydrofluoric acid - hell, that is scary, is there nothing else that will do the job (to answer myself, I guess not cos if there was you wouldn't be using the HF). I should have known you'd be doing something like this cos we like similar stuff.

Kwant
15-06-2012, 04:44 PM
That reminds me of a scene in the American series Breaking Bad, where a young guy tries to dispose of a body in the bath in an upstairs room with HF acid, well it did not go well :0)

I perhaps should not be let loose near such stuff as I have already spilled a jar of sulphuric onto myself, my trousers were off quicker than they have ever been, it did not do much good to the as was rush matting in my studio, which rotted away and has now had to be replaced.

medusa
15-06-2012, 05:18 PM
What a shame about the dragonfly! :-( I love art nouveau and doing what you do had never occurred to me; it will be a while before I'm confident enough to do that though. Hydrofluoric acid - hell, that is scary, is there nothing else that will do the job (to answer myself, I guess not cos if there was you wouldn't be using the HF). I should have known you'd be doing something like this cos we like similar stuff.

I tend to save stuff up and dump them in in one go. outside on a still-ish day great big rubber gauntlets and goggles. it is very very dilute though, so probably a bit less risky. Re-enamelling is always a bit nerve-wracking, especially if stuff has been lead soldered, but sometimes the pay off is well worth it.

That reminds me of a scene in the American series Breaking Bad, where a young guy tries to dispose of a body in the bath in an upstairs room with HF acid, well it did not go well :0)

I perhaps should not be let loose near such stuff as I have already spilled a jar of sulphuric onto myself, my trousers were off quicker than they have ever been, it did not do much good to the as was rush matting in my studio, which rotted away and has now had to be replaced.

I think I remember that episode. bit of artistic license in it I think!

Di Sandland
15-06-2012, 05:44 PM
Chuffin hell (can't write the strong words I want to cos the forum won't accept them!) - I think you should stand away from the acid

Kwant
19-06-2012, 04:38 PM
I got my copy of the Linda Darty book today and Carole you were absolutely right, what a great book it is. Clear, interesting and inspiring, I feel less daunted by the whole thing now as it would appear even mistakes can be incorporated into ones design :0) which will suit me down to the ground.

Kwant
26-06-2012, 05:58 PM
My kiln came today hooray. I have already fired a couple of pieces of PMC, very happy with the results, well no explosions, and just fired my very first test of enamel, very encouraging :0).

Tabby66
26-06-2012, 08:33 PM
Yay!! At last...........have fun ;-)