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Sunnybank
16-08-2009, 04:20 PM
Hi, can anyone point me in the right direction?

I've started some silver etching and use wax to stop out. I'm finding wax is a bit heavy and difficult to apply for small pieces, but don't know what else to use. My bibles are "The jewellers directory of decorative finishes" by Jinks McGrath and "Tips and shortcuts for jewellery making" by Stephen O'Keefe. Both of them cover etching quite well, but are non specific about stopping out

I tried marker pen, but that lifted straight off. Any ideas please. :confused:

bustagasket
16-08-2009, 04:30 PM
Sorry i am no help here i'm afraid, sounds intriguing tho!

Solunar Silver Studio
16-08-2009, 04:46 PM
Hi Sunnybank - I don't know much about etching...did a little bit at college - generally unsuccessfully!!:N: We did use a stopping out varnish with some success although it was a bit awkward to paint on... Like a good little girl I will direct you to :)))COOKSONS:))) who do sell it here... http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Stop-Out-Varnish-Black--Polish--For-Etching-Can-Only-Be-Despatchedby-Tnt-Un1263f-prcode-998-162

I know I have read about other stuff...like Sharpie markers but I think it depends what you are using to etch with as to how successful they are. I'm sure some of the others will have more ideas for you...but the weekend is always a bit slow here...you will have to wait until a few more people log on!!

Sunnybank
16-08-2009, 05:06 PM
Thanks Barbara, the trouble with the polish from Cooksons is that it has to be couriered and therefore costs a bomb.

Solunar Silver Studio
16-08-2009, 05:22 PM
Thanks Barbara, the trouble with the polish from Cooksons is that it has to be couriered and therefore costs a bomb.

I think you will have that problem wherever you get it from....I think the idea is to prevent you from making a BOMB!!=:-O All potential bomb making chemicals have this courier thing! I don't know if somewhere like Maplins would have anything...you do use etching for computer mother boards don't you?? You need to try a bit of 'out of box' thinking! Wait a bit and see if Peter logs on...he is the chemicals genius and has ideas spilling out of his ears!!!:Y:!!

Di Sandland
16-08-2009, 05:25 PM
I think the idea is to prevent you from making a BOMB

Oh, so that's the reason I had to pay £11.00 for transport of pickle!

Solunar Silver Studio
16-08-2009, 05:31 PM
Well - don't quote me on that ...but it is something like that!!:)

mizgeorge
16-08-2009, 07:47 PM
I think it's a hazchem thing - it simply can't go Royal Mail.

I know you can use some acrylic paints as an alternative to tradition solvent based stop-out varnishes. Nail varnish certainly works.

Re-reading this http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/photocopy_transfer_etch.htm I wonder if artist's masking fluid might also work? A masquepen is incredibly easy to use, and can be very detailed. I use one for selective etching of lampwork beads (when I need a finer detail than nail varnish will allow).

caroleallen
16-08-2009, 08:57 PM
Although I normally use stop-out varnish, I've also used permanent markers quite successfully. As long as you make sure you clean the silver perfectly before you start there shouldn't be a problem. If the marks disappear after a while, you can take the metal out of the acid, rinse and mark the lines again. You can also use things like electrical tapes.

Coco
16-08-2009, 10:27 PM
What kind of acid do you use to etch?

Sunnybank
17-08-2009, 07:35 AM
What kind of acid do you use to etch?

Nitric acid

Coco
17-08-2009, 08:49 AM
Can you get it from Cooksons? I had a look and couldn't see any, I was probably having one of my moments though #-o :)

ps_bond
17-08-2009, 08:59 AM
The stopping out varnish from Cooksons is Mylands black polish - a shellac-based furniture polish from http://www.myland.co.uk/shellac.html
The advantage of having black is so you can see where it is :)

I've never tried marker pen with nitric; it works well in ferric chloride however. Surface prep always seemed to be key (no pun intended!) to getting the permanent marker to stick; I tended to use Sharpies because they were on hand. Nail varnish works. Asphaltum is the "classic", but it is revolting to work with. I think O'Keefe advocates paper strips for an etch resist for some bits...?

If you're going to do photoetching, you need to experiment to see how light-proof your printer is. I've a preference for laser printers for doing this - they give a completely opaque black, whereas some inkjets aren't quite as effective. Maplin used to sell photoresist, I can't seem to find it on their site right now.

Oh, and nitric acid is a PITA to get hold of - EU regs on couriering again, AFAIR. Ferric nitrate is more readily available - and a bit safer.

Coco
17-08-2009, 10:13 AM
How is photo etching different from regular etching?

ps_bond
17-08-2009, 11:49 AM
You use a photographic process to set up the etch mask, rather than a manual drawn technique. Expose and develop the image on the substrate, then etch it.

Sunnybank
17-08-2009, 12:30 PM
Thanks Peter for your help.

I bought the nitric acid in Cousins then had to dash for the train so I didn't have time to go round the corner to Cooksons for the Black Polish. I thought it would be easy to get from a DIY shop, but I can only get white polish, which as you say would be hard to see. I've got plain shellac so I may try that on a piece of scrap, my scrap pot is emptying rapidly.

No plans so far for photo etching!

ps_bond
17-08-2009, 03:33 PM
I bought the nitric acid in Cousins then had to dash for the train...

I think you'll find the rail networks are not particularly pleased by people taking conc. acids on their trains... ;)

(They get stroppy enough about compressed air cylinders!)

Solunar Silver Studio
17-08-2009, 04:06 PM
Can't you 'tint' your polish or shellac with something....Water based/oil based/solvent based (delete as required!)... so that you can see where you are putting it??

Lindyloo
17-08-2009, 08:57 PM
Peter, can you be specific about which Sharpie pen is the right one. I just looked them up and they come in a variety of different types. Is it the enamel pen for example, or just one labelled permanent marker?

Linda

Sunnybank
17-08-2009, 09:20 PM
[QUOTE=ps_bond;4679]I think you'll find the rail networks are not particularly pleased by people taking conc. acids on their trains... ;)

I'm sure the plastic carrier bag was COSHH compliant!=:-O


Can't you 'tint' your polish or shellac with something....Water based/oil based/solvent based (delete as required!)... so that you can see where you are putting it??


I did wonder about doing this, Barbara, I'll give it a try now someone else thinks it might work. *-:)


Thanks both, I'll let you know how I get on.

ps_bond
17-08-2009, 10:30 PM
Peter, can you be specific about which Sharpie pen is the right one. I just looked them up and they come in a variety of different types. Is it the enamel pen for example, or just one labelled permanent marker?


I've not seen the enamel pen... All I've used is the permanent marker. Give them a chance to dry adequately first though.

Lindyloo
17-08-2009, 10:33 PM
Thanks for that Peter. :)

AlexandraBuckle
18-08-2009, 10:38 AM
At uni I used to use 'stop out pens'

You can also use images photocopied onto acetate as a stop.

Use an upturned iron to heat the plate of metal to be etched.
Place the acetate image down onto the warm metal.
Once the image is 'melted' onto the metal, remove the acetate being careful not to smudge the image.
Let the metal and ink cool.
It can then be etched.

Appologies if this has already been covered in the thread! (I did read it a bit quick)

Ominicci
18-08-2009, 05:31 PM
Am taking all this in for future reference as I would like to do etching, and have a rolling mill and.........

amberdragon
19-08-2009, 05:12 PM
Hi, I've always used good old ordinary nail varnish, what us girls put on our nails. That always works for me.

Coco
19-08-2009, 06:38 PM
Can you use other acid besides nitric acid? Coz I gotta say, no one's terribly thrilled at the concept of me bringing some home

ps_bond
19-08-2009, 08:55 PM
Ferric nitrate is a safer etchant to use for silver. Safer, still fairly nasty though. Megauk sell it in reasonable quantities these days

MuranoSilver
19-08-2009, 09:05 PM
Hi, I've always used good old ordinary nail varnish, what us girls put on our nails. That always works for me.

I've heard that works too :)

Sunnybank
20-08-2009, 08:22 AM
I've finally got sick of working in the kitchen where I have to set everything up and then put everything away so etching is on hold until I've converted the porch into a workshop. I've got a car full of rubbish for the tip then the work starts on the bench.

Nail varnish sounds good, might be my first try.

Lindyloo
20-08-2009, 09:24 PM
A porch workshop sounds lovely.

Sunnybank
23-08-2009, 07:18 PM
I've finally got sick of working in the kitchen where I have to set everything up and then put everything away so etching is on hold until I've converted the porch into a workshop. I've got a car full of rubbish for the tip then the work starts on the bench.

Nail varnish sounds good, might be my first try.


Now I've got a workshop I couldn't put the etching off any longer, nail varnish at the ready I had a go! Really pleased with the result, sorry I've lost the ability to photograph jewellery so you will have to take my word for it, I know ................ :wwopics:


I'm now buzzing with ideas for what to do next.

Sunnybank
24-08-2009, 09:10 PM
Still not David Bailey, but here are a couple of pics of my attempt at etching ............ my brother's Christmas present!:)


I just stippled the nail varnish on the face to give a random 'natural' look.

I had some real problems :(| soldering the cufflink backs on, the first time I've used them, might think about link next time.

Thanks for all the advice and interest following my question.

Jane, actually I think I prefer Sunny!:D

Di Sandland
24-08-2009, 11:46 PM
Well, they came out alright, didn't they!

Ominicci
03-09-2009, 01:08 PM
I can't open the thumbnails :(|