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Didi
17-08-2011, 03:22 PM
I want to make a ring thats made of silver and copper sandwiched together. The idea is to layer sheets shaped like a 'soft' square and then cut out the hole for the finger in the middle. The banding would then be visible from the sides of the ring. Should I sweat solder the sheets one at a time or all together? Will sweat soldering work or will the whole thing start to buckle. I want to use 5 sheets of 1mm silver and copper alternated. Any help would be very mush appreciated. Being a novice I don't know if this will work or if Im barking up a stupid tree and its not even possible!

ps_bond
17-08-2011, 03:36 PM
If I've understood your description correctly, you're talking about one of the methods for making mokume gane. It's not a method I use - I fuse rather than solder - but I believe Alistair McCallum still uses that method. As far as I remember, he advocates doing 1 joint at a time, using the stick soldering technique rather than sweat soldering.

There is a minor issue though, that people like James Binnion warn against - silver and copper, particularly when worn against the skin, will erode as they form a simple battery (so you get electrolytic corrosion). Liners don't help - the outside is still vulnerable. It's peculier to the individual - some people won't see the problem as quickly as others.

So yes, it is possible.

Myosotis
17-08-2011, 07:25 PM
I want to make a ring thats made of silver and copper sandwiched together. The idea is to layer sheets shaped like a 'soft' square and then cut out the hole for the finger in the middle. The banding would then be visible from the sides of the ring. Should I sweat solder the sheets one at a time or all together? Will sweat soldering work or will the whole thing start to buckle. I want to use 5 sheets of 1mm silver and copper alternated. Any help would be very mush appreciated. Being a novice I don't know if this will work or if Im barking up a stupid tree and its not even possible!

Or you could rivet the layers like this guy does http://www.flickr.com/photos/janosgaborvarga/3333027313/in/set-72157619551940927. He has some really nice work in mixed metals

Dennis
17-08-2011, 07:32 PM
Peter has warned of the possible electrolytic effect and as Murphy's law is very prevalent in jewellery making, then if it can possibly cause trouble it sure will.

You can certainly attempt what you describe, but it will be difficult to solder that many sheets as perfectly as you may wish. If you take that route, either sheet by sheet, or all in a heap, be sure not to quench before the metal is quite cool, or it will tend to buckle. You will need to use a biggish torch and plenty of solder.

If you are not a soldering ace you will find the method described by me last November much easier. You start, in this case with a piece of 5.0 mm thick silver and fit in strips of other metals vertically all round, but not quite to the centre. Use very generous amounts of solder, file away the surplus and you will end with a design that can be seen on all surfaces.

http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/hot-metal-gold-silver-metal-working/3210-one-false-move.html

Joe
17-08-2011, 09:28 PM
Or you could rivet the layers like this guy does http://www.flickr.com/photos/janosgaborvarga/3333027313/in/set-72157619551940927. He has some really nice work in mixed metals

I don't think I could offer that finish to my clients, I don't know about others...? Really good cold joints are very difficult.

Dennis
17-08-2011, 10:16 PM
Well, he specialises in this primitive finish, but I don't think the layered ring shows sufficient craftsmanship for my taste.

Myosotis
17-08-2011, 10:19 PM
I don't think I could offer that finish to my clients, I don't know about others...? Really good cold joints are very difficult.
It's not the best finish in the world but I like the roughness of his general work which I think suits the style - if you look at his iron Jewellery it's got a "primitive" finish which I think would look all wrong if it has been precisely engineered to the nth micron. I like this guys ideas- like his pendants and poison rings collection. I was also posting it as an example that there are very few new ideas in jewellery and Didi's idea of a square ring with rounded corners made up of different colour metals so you can see the different colours at the edges has been done at least once before using an alternative method of construction so there's always more than one way to skin a feline

Dennis
18-08-2011, 05:51 AM
Yes of course; thank you for posting it. It's important that we see everything that's being made. All my favourite painters were rubbished in their day.
Regards, Dennis.

Didi
20-08-2011, 04:00 PM
Thank you all so much. What I want to create is exactly like the riveted ring (Do all people suffer from finding your original idea has been done before) I don't like the roughness of the finish so I may bite the bullet and try soldering. With this electrolitic thingy - If i made a ring of silver to fit into the hole so only silver touches the finger do you think that would help? Looks like another steep learning curve for me!
Will let you know how I get on
Didi

Dennis
20-08-2011, 07:10 PM
Well if the wearer is susceptible, then the problem would still affect the adjacent fingers. So the answer is still try it and see. Dennis.

ps_bond
21-08-2011, 09:24 AM
Some people will have the effects in a month, others will take years if you're lucky. The liner, as Dennis points out, only protects the inside.

Didi
23-08-2011, 04:50 PM
Hadn't twigged that!!! How very silly of me. Dennis and yourself clearly have greater minds than mine!
Didi

Didi
29-04-2012, 04:13 PM
Finally, have managed to finish ring and photograph it. Melted the first one I tried but this one went ok I think Hope attaching it works Thanks for all your help
Didi

Dennis
29-04-2012, 09:14 PM
Thank you for coming back to us, Didi. It's looking very smart an professional. Dennis.

BlindSpotJewellery
02-05-2012, 11:03 AM
Hi There!
I just noticed that my old sandwitch ring was mentioned in this tread :)
Well, I admit that the finish was not perfect.. Neighter the photo, you know sometimes all you manage to picture is the scratches. Generally I am not a fan of super fine finish but for certain designs it is needed - here too.
I also wanted to say that in my ring apart of copper and silver I had brass and aluminium layers too. All is sweat soldered but the aluminium. For this last metal I needed to do the rivets.
The wearer is happy with it and does not have problems with the copper's/brasses's colouring effect - though it usually does colour the skin.
Congratulations Didi, you did a great job!