Brooch pins

[Tabby66]

Advice please!! :confused:

Could anyone tell me if this will be suitable for making brooch pins??

http://www.cooksongold.com/Wire/Sterling-Silver-Round-Wire-0.80mm-Diameter-Fully-Hard-In-30-Gram-Coils-prcode-HSA-408


Thank you
Tabby

[Dennis]

Dear Tabby,
Here are two references from the forum for you:

http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/tutorials-bench-tips-step-steps/3066-flipside-brooches.html

http://muranosilver.blogspot.com/2009/12/make-your-own-brooch-fittings.html

Kind regards, Dennis.

[Tabby66]

Thank you Dennis, I have sent an email to KC Smith to enquire about the stainless steel wire.
Kind regards
Tabby

[Dennis]

Thank you for you feedback, Tabby. Two words of caution:
It is very tough and will make notches in delicate wire cutters, so you need heavy ones such as Maun diagonal cutting pliers, or tempered ones from an ironmongers.
If you find the loop too hard to bend, you can in fact anneal just 5.0mm or so at one end, make the loop and then re-polish with a coarse radial wheel. It will still be hard enough. Let us know the outcome, Dennis.

[Tabby66]

Dear Dennis (and others:)),

Here is the reply I've received .......

"Please find attached our price list. If you could kindly flick through, and get familiar with our products, you will notice that our prices for 0.8mm in Stainless are as follow:

0.8mm in hard condition in small 30g, coil we supply at £1.44 - but please note, that our minimum order value is £15 (that is material only, postage and VAT on top of that)
0.8mm in hard condition in 450g, coil we supply at £13.44
0.8mm in 300mm straight lengths we offer in packs of 10 at £1.60per pack.

Just to bring up to your attention our other than stainless steel wire, i.e. very popular with our customers, who are jeweller designers Nickel (German) Silver."

Which I guess leads me to ask for your (or anyone elses) opinion on "Nickel (German) Silver" for use as brooch pins please?

Also, if I purchase such huge amounts.......would anybody be interested in purchasing some off me (at the cost it's been to me plus any additional postage)??

Thanks for any advice and interest>
Tabby

[mizgeorge]

Tabby, I'm low on 0.8 steel and would happily split an order. I prefer straight lengths to coil :)

[Dennis]

I have hesitated to interfere here George, but because their wire is a rather undersized, I use the nominal 0.8mm for short pins and the 0.9mm for those longer than say 25mm. I bought mine over ten years ago, but the actual diameters of my wires are 7.5 and 8.4mm. Possibly they can send samples first. kind regards, Dennis.

[Joe]

Ooo you sent me off to the workshop with my Mitutoyo micrometer... nothing undersized in my KC Smith order, all between 7 and 20 microns over (we've got to get this central heating turned down!).

I bulked my order (prompted by Dennis' recommendation) with the tape which I've used to make up some of James' clamps! And some soft 1mm for more robust bits-and-bobs. £15 quickly disappears in a few handy-sized items.

But... on the nickel-silver front... this is a hard but not terribly springy material not especially suited to pins. It's a sort of fake silver in appearance but dull and a bit brittle. Bet it'd make good hinges, but... think EU nickel directive!!

When we last visited this topic, there was the suggestion that the dental uses of this company's stainless meant it met the EU's nickel directives.... My limited investigations suggest that it does not. From the statements of the grades they supply, they seem to be using a steel which is too high in nickel for skin exposure (albeit much lower in nickel than German silver). I've no idea what the dental profession's rules are, but trading standards seem hot on nickel in jewellery if the press is to be believed.

Altogether... avoid nickel regardless of how shiny and non-corrosive it is, because a very small number of people with allergies have got a very restrictive EU law virtually banning it's use.

I'm using it in pins and hinges, you'll have to take your own advices.

[Goldsmith]

Tabby in my time I have made thousands of medal brooch pins, when I started in this trade I worked for a company who made regalia. Our brooch pins were made by using 1mm. thick German silver (nickel silver) wires, hammer hardened or just twist hardened. We also made UK regalia such as the stars of the orders KBE,KCB,GBE,GCB and all of these stars also had brooch pins made from German silver.
James

[Dennis]

That's intersting, James. As German silver looks just like silver do you have a special requirement for hallmarking?

Joe, when I bought my wire Smiths appeared to be just a little family firm. Maybe they have grown up since then. A question for you: Do you have problems bending the small eyelet with jeweller's pliers? Dennis.

[Tabby66]

Thank you all for your replies.

Joe, I had wondered about allergies to nickel.
I shall wait for your replies to Dennis' questions above before deciding what to do.

Kind regards
Tabby

[Joe]

Yes I do Dennis! I've taken to bending the eyelet first and discarding it if it doesn't work - usually because the turns are too open and the steel so springy it won't close up.

I'm really surprised at the use of German silver for brooch pins - my experience of slightly thicker material is that it goes from soft to brittle and wouldn't lend itself to forming a coil-spring for the sort of pins I favour. I must try it when I get a chance.

Nickel... it's a real problem. I rather suspect that the pin of a brooch might be the only part that could possibly be considered to come into prolonged contact with the wearer's skin so nickel would have to be avoided.

[Dennis]

Quote From Joe: Yes I do Dennis! I've taken to bending the eyelet first and discarding it if it doesn't work - usually because the turns are too open and the steel so springy it won't close up.

I make the eyelet as small as possible so as to accommodare a 1.2mm rivet. The part that won't bend is the very end of the wire, so I stop and cut that off. Then the end is suitably curved and I can close it up. It also heps me to have a longitudinal groove in the beaks so the pliers don't slip.
All this may not be relevant to you though Joe, because it sounds as if you make several turns to act as a spring. Kind regards, Dennis

[Tabby66]

Tabby, I'm low on 0.8 steel and would happily split an order. I prefer straight lengths to coil :)

Happy to go with this George, will pm you.

Thanks for your help everyone.

Tabby

[Goldsmith]

That's intersting, James. As German silver looks just like silver do you have a special requirement for hallmarking?

Joe, when I bought my wire Smiths appeared to be just a little family firm. Maybe they have grown up since then. A question for you: Do you have problems bending the small eyelet with jeweller's pliers? Dennis.

For some reason my posts have been blocked for the past couple of days, to answer your question re hallmarking when using German silver brooch pins, well the British Insignia that we made back in the 1960s to 80s was never hallmarked. A CBE is made of Silve,Gold and Gilding metal anyway, so it would be hard to hallmark. Items made of German or nickel silver was plated anyway so the idea of skin irritation never comes into it. All ladies CBEs were presented with a medal ribbon bow that had a brooch fitting totally made of German silver and gold plated, sewn on their backs, my records tell me that I must have made at least 3000 of these in my time. Also please remember that items marked EPNS are electro plated nickel silver.
James