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leemorris
04-10-2010, 05:22 PM
Hi
I want to solder a small flat bit of gold about 3mm sq onto a 10mm sq flat silver
can i put the solder onto the silver melt it then just place the gold on top? this is my first try at soldering.

Thanks
Lee

Kwant
04-10-2010, 05:38 PM
I have done the same thing in the past with no problems.

Goldsmith
04-10-2010, 06:30 PM
Lee, always put the solder on the smallest piece when soldering layers this way. I would add solder to the gold piece first as it will give you a better solder finish and not flood all over the surface of the silver.

James

leemorris
04-10-2010, 06:50 PM
James
So when the solder is melted onto the gold will it not fall off when i turn the gold over to stick it down?
Sorry if these are real stupid questions.
Lee

Emerald
04-10-2010, 07:55 PM
James
So when the solder is melted onto the gold will it not fall off when i turn the gold over to stick it down?
Sorry if these are real stupid questions.
Lee

no Lee it wont fall of as it is melted onto the gold, dont forget to clean and re-flux before you solder the gold to the silver

stu_clouds
04-10-2010, 08:02 PM
James
So when the solder is melted onto the gold will it not fall off when i turn the gold over to stick it down?
Sorry if these are real stupid questions.
Lee

No dont worry the solder will not fall off when u flip it over.

Stu

Dennis
04-10-2010, 09:20 PM
Lee, if you have not done this before, don't risk spoiling your gold, which is expensive, before practicing with something cheap like copper.
regards, Dennis.

leemorris
05-10-2010, 03:56 PM
Hi Thanks for the replies
i was going to use silver solder is this ok?
can't i put the solder on the gold then stick it to the silver while the solder is still molten?
Lee

Dennis
05-10-2010, 09:26 PM
Lee, what has been suggested is called sweat soldering. You melt several paillions of solder onto the smaller piece. There is no need, but for a beginner it is easier if you now pickle, wash and reflux. There should be evenly spaced patches of solder, flattened and re solidified.

The second, larger piece is then cleaned with abrasive paper or a Scotchbrite pad like the first and the smaller refluxed piece is placed on top, solder side down.

By re-heating this assembly, preferably from below, the solder will re-melt and join the two parts. when you see a faint line of liquid solder at the edges of the top piece, remove the flame because you will have finished.

To solder from below, put your piece on some steel gauze suspended on a tripod, or between two soldering blocks. Failing this, heat a block until it begins to glow, and then slide your work onto the hot spot and continue from above.

Cut small paillions of silver solder for this, the grade depending on how many further soldering operations you intend. If there are not many you could start with medium, or even easy solder, so reducing the amount of heat needed. For flux you can use borax or auflux for the first two, but I advise easy flux for easy solder.

Please do not underestimate the learning curve to do this successfully. Hence my advice to practice with cheap materials first. If you are serious join a class. Dennis

Emerald
05-10-2010, 09:33 PM
Hi Thanks for the replies
i was going to use silver solder is this ok?
can't i put the solder on the gold then stick it to the silver while the solder is still molten?
Lee

Hi Lee you need gold solder to solder this, if your gold is 9ct then you need 9ct gold solder if 18 ct you need 18

Joe
05-10-2010, 10:28 PM
Hi Lee you need gold solder to solder this, if your gold is 9ct then you need 9ct gold solder if 18 ct you need 18

Erm, I'm not sure I'd agree with that. I often accent my silver work in 18ct and almost never use gold solder. Does anyone else have difficulties with that?

I second Dennis' caution about practice - you've picked yourself one of the more difficult soldering tasks there!

caroleallen
06-10-2010, 07:45 AM
My two pennyworth is that it's very easy to overheat such a small piece and once your solder has started to flow, take the heat away immediately or you'll get a load of solder around the gold which will be difficult to clean up. You may find that the little bit of gold will sink into the silver as well. As someone else said, practice with copper on silver before you risk using gold.

Dennis
06-10-2010, 10:33 AM
Joe: Yes, I agree, silver solder is fine for this. It is sometimes important to check the relative melting points of solder and the main metal metal though. For instance Some 9ct golds melt perilously close to the melting point of hard silver solder. The Cook Book has several pages on this.

Carole: It wasn't someone else, it was me.

Kind regards to both of you, Dennis.

leemorris
06-10-2010, 12:11 PM
Thanks for all the replies
I didn't think this was such a hard task, maybe i'll try something a bit easier for my first soldering job.
Thanks
I will post some pics when i've tried it.
Lee

orestruck
06-10-2010, 07:08 PM
Get some easy silver solder paste, put a tiny blob of it on the back of the gold piece, the pop it in place on the silver. Gently heat the piece up until you see the solder flash out (you will know it when it happens!) take the heat away, then pickle and finish.

Sarah

caroleallen
06-10-2010, 07:18 PM
Joe: Yes, I agree, silver solder is fine for this. It is sometimes important to check the relative melting points of solder and the main metal metal though. For instance Some 9ct golds melt perilously close to the melting point of hard silver solder. The Cook Book has several pages on this.

Carole: It wasn't someone else, it was me.

Kind regards to both of you, Dennis.

Sorry Dennis, I was just too lazy to trawl back through to see who said it!

mizgeorge
06-10-2010, 09:15 PM
Get some easy silver solder paste, put a tiny blob of it on the back of the gold piece, the pop it in place on the silver. Gently heat the piece up until you see the solder flash out (you will know it when it happens!) take the heat away, then pickle and finish.

Sarah

without offending the purists, this is how I do it too. It's one of the applications where paste is infinitely easier to use than traditional solder chips. I do lots of things using this technique, like this:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4582743012_8a4f9590eb_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mizgeorge/4582743012/)silver and gold bumpies (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mizgeorge/4582743012/) by mizgeorge (http://www.flickr.com/people/mizgeorge/), on Flickr

orestruck
07-10-2010, 06:03 AM
I am self taught George - so if I find a method that works and is invisible, I just go with it!
Lovin' your bumpies ;) !

Sarah
X

Dennis
07-10-2010, 04:59 PM
Not so much a purist George , as trying to give cast iron advice to a beginner. As always, I am full of admiration for your work, with knobs on .
Kind regards, Dennis.

leemorris
07-10-2010, 08:34 PM
Thought i would have a play around with the solder today and i couldn't get it to melt , how long do i need to heat it for?
I had a go with some silver wire and it melted within seconds.
Lee

stu_clouds
07-10-2010, 10:40 PM
Thought i would have a play around with the solder today and i couldn't get it to melt , how long do i need to heat it for?
I had a go with some silver wire and it melted within seconds.
Lee

Soldering is not about heating the piece of solder up directly, u need to get the two pieces of metal you are joining upto the temperature so the heat they conduct melts the solder. A piece of silver wire will melt quickly because it has a small surface area.

Someone with a better way of putting it will be along shortly im sure.

Stu

Joe
07-10-2010, 11:35 PM
Ah, hmm, yes...

Those who know me will cringe now as I launch into my standard moan about soldering.

The jewellery community have got it into their head that they are "soldering" with silver - or indeed gold. The whole of the rest of the metal-smithing community have decided that if the temperature is above 400C then it isn't soldering - it's either brazing or welding.

The difference between the melting point of silver solder and the melting point of silver is.... not very much. The number of degrees is not so important, suffice that it is a few seconds longer with the torch. Somehow you have to aim to get the solder to melt before the silver and, by moving a flame to and fro, control the temperature in this critical range.

It is an art rather than a science.

You must prepare yourself for dozens of failures until you get a feel for this tiny spot between melting the solder and the silver.

If you are not wealthy, I recommend learning to solder on copper wire with "hard" silver solder; if you are of good means, just be ready to throw your first attempts into the recycling basket. Get a feel for the melting points of each material; watch how it shimmers then slumps and finally melts away. Learn from your mistakes but do not expect any sort if instant success - this is not that sort of exercise!

Dennis
08-10-2010, 08:47 PM
That's quite lyrical Joe, It's going on my fridge. Dennis.

medusa
16-02-2011, 02:25 PM
Please excuse the bump!

what do people think about using gold solder to add accents to silver? I saw a bit in Tim McCreigton's book which suggested placing paillions of gold solder into small recesses and then letting the heat melt the gold solder so it filled it. I had a go a while back with not great results, but it could be I needed to bash the gold solder a bit thinner.

I do fingerprint jewellery and I'd love to be able to get gold to flood into the grooves, but I don't see it happening!

Goldsmith
16-02-2011, 02:37 PM
Most gold solders will not run like water so what you fancy doing is a no go if you want neatness. What I would do is to get the fingerprint piece gold plated and then remove the plating from the higher surfaces leaving gold in the print grooves.
James

medusa
20-02-2011, 10:05 PM
Hi James, the gold solder didn't even run like quick hardening cement! gold plating could work, the recesses would be protected from wear... At least I won't be wasting more time nor effort trying to do this, thank you.

cruzxsteel
28-05-2011, 09:48 AM
I'm trying to make baby shower favor's for a friend and I wanted to know if there was a way for me to put lettering on ribbon myself. I want to put her name and the shower's date on ribbon in either gold or silver lettering. Has anyone ever done this, or something similar. If so, any advice. The lettering will be approximately 1/4 of an inch tall. I want it to look nice, so i was thinking of stencils, but i'm not sure what paint to use. Any advice would help

medusa
28-05-2011, 10:00 AM
cruzx, do you mean real gold or silver on fabric ribbon?

jai.kapoor246
20-06-2011, 08:31 AM
Hey lee don't go for silver one... try Gold solder.... hope u will do it well....:Y:


Jai