Soldering a bangle - assistance please

[emroyjewels]

I'm trying to solder a bangle using rectangular sterling wire - 1.7mm thick, 5mm wide (KSA550).

I don't have the usual problem of it not getting hot enough (built a kiln out of soldering bricks, its getting hot and joining together).

My problem is although the ends are flush and perfect before I start heating it, they bloomin pop up or out as they get warm and it's joining together at a funny angle. I've tried 4 times now and I get an imperfect joint every time. :(|

I tried to use my two third hands to hold each side in place, but can't fit them inside the "kiln" and without the kiln, the bangle doesn't get hot enough.

So my question is - how do you ensure the ends stay together and don't move as the silver heats up? I'm sure there are loads of possible answers to this, and I'm willing to try them all!

TY in advance.

[PureGold]

Once everything is in place and as you want it try binding wire across the circle of the bangle in a few places and twisted securely which should hold everything tightly in place.

[Dennis]

There are two suggestions, Emma:
Applying more heat to the back part of the bangle, away from the joint will cause some expansion to push the ends together. For this to be effective you might just need two torches.
It would also help to use binding wire. Make a cable by twisting two thin bits together.This marks your silver less than using one thick wire. Make a loop across the bangle and tighten by making a twist one east and one twist west of the bangle. If you over tighten the wire will break, so if in doubt make a seond loop criss crossing the first. this should also arrest the opening of the joint when heated. Remember to quench in water as iron in pickle will turn everything pink.
I find binding wire absolutely maddening and am near having a hissy fit half way through. Let us know how you get on, kind regards, Dennis.
Sorry, PureGold, You posted yours while I was still writing mine.

[ps_bond]

All of the above - and anneal it once it's shaped. I usually bend ends past each other so there's some spring tension holding them in place to start with.

[Goldsmith]

I would use binding wire wrapped around the bangle circumference, heres a tip, cut off a length of binding wire longer than you need to wrap around the circumference. Grip one end of the wire in a vise and hold the other end in a pair of pliers and gently pull the wire, this will make your binding wire dead straight and make it easier to wrap around the bangel circumference before twisting the wire to secure it. Before wrapping the wire, flux between the join, place a piece of fluxed solder on the inside of the bangle across the join, then gently heat the whole bangle from the outside and when the solder runs it will run through the join from the inner circumference to the outer. Sorry if this is too long winded.
James

[emroyjewels]

Thank you all very much for your replies - I guess I shall be digging out my binding wire tonight for a play!

I've used it a few times before, but always end up with scratches and it getting stuck in the solder, which was why I had given up on it. However, since that seems to be the consensus, I guess I just need a few more attempts with it.

I'll post a picture when I'm done!

[Dennis]

James, I suppose this is nit picking, but I am asking because I have little chance to talk to a real jeweller. When you do this do you make a bridge to keep the wire off the joint, or just reheat to get the wire off if it sticks?
Kind regards, Dennis.

[Joe]

Ooo, if you get a chance, could I beg a drawing?

[caroleallen]

I'd suggest making the place where the 2 pieces join flat - squeeze the metal with parallel pliers. Also as said, cross the 2 ends over each other and then draw them back so that there's plenty of tension to hold them together. I also find that if the metal is annealed after shaping, you lose the tension. I also agree that it's best to heat the metal at the back of the bangle before heating the join.

[Goldsmith]

James, I suppose this is nit picking, but I am asking because I have little chance to talk to a real jeweller. When you do this do you make a bridge to keep the wire off the joint, or just reheat to get the wire off if it sticks?
Kind regards, Dennis.

Dennis, I only put a borax flux in the joint, and do not entirely coat the area with flux and my binding wires rarely stick across the joints, and as I add a small pallion of the solder to the inside circumference it does not form a blob on the outer circumference and hold on to the wire.
To those that do not know how to make the solder stay in place on the inner circumference, I just pick up a small square of solder(pallion) in my tweezers and dip it in the prepared borax flux, (borax cone and water)a milky liquid in my borax plate and this fluxes the solder, I then gently hear the bangle which melts the flux in the joint before attaching the fluxed solder pallion to the inside circumference,and the warm metal holds the fluxed solder pallion in place, ready for soldering.
James