Hello from Bristol

[foidster]

Hi All,

This seems like a super forum and I am relieved to find it! I took just a two day course down in cornwall in basic silversmithing where we made a simple link bracelet, a ring, a pair of earrings and a pendant. It was very inspiring! I am a bit overwhelmed right now by the scale of the undertaking ahead of me. I DO LOVE making stuff. I'm a musician, a writer and a full time therapist with a love of all things creative. So I'm going into this because I like the creative process. With that said it is my goal to make it also my living. I've been a therapist for a long time now and I'm slowly running out of steam. It's time for a change! That's why I feel a bit overwhelmed. I have no intention of running before I can walk. I have a lot of learning ahead of me but I do have so many questions. I will be joining a 16 week course this month but sadly the classes are only 2.5 hours per week. I'd like to do something a bit more intensive but I'm figuring that it will be a great place for me to pick up things one step at a time and then come home and practice practice practice. It will be a good opportunity to get my questions answered. I spent 5 days last week cleaning out my old outhouse, painting inside, laying lino and I then built a bench which I am really pleased with! Just about to invest in my first equipment and I guess that too feels a bit overwhelming. I haven't placed my order yet but I'm already up to £350 on my basket and still needing a whole bunch of stuff not yet accounted for. Obviously where I took my course was a fully equipped workshop and we had the advantage of a tumbler polisher and desk polisher, so I'm left with a whole bunch of questions about how to polish and finish pieces. I bought the Jinks book and that sort of covers it but I'm wondering if I should be thinking about tumblers etc at this point or can I just use cloths and a dremel (I have a cheap version does the same thing!)? Any advice welcomed on how to setup basics...especially my needs for finishing pieces! Any tips on how to acquire tools cheaply? Is it worth buying cheap on ebay or are those tools just substandard? I look forward to getting to know you and I am grateful for your patience with the new kid!

All the best

John

[orestruck]

Firstly John - Welcome!

Is there anyway you can copy and paste your basket? That way we can have a look, see whats missing and see what you can do without for a while.....

Asfor picking up stuff cheap, yes some things you can......but other things it's just not worth it.
What kind of stuff do you envisage making? Are there any designers / makers out there that you respect and who you would love to emulate?
Sometimes while you are learning its quite good to be inspired by work already out there and it's a good way to learn different techniques until you develop your own "handwriting".

Sarah

[wheely]

Hello John, and welcome to the forum. I'm also fairly new to all this, and I also bought a whole bunch of tools, some of which I barely use, which is a shame because, as you are finding, they're not cheap! For me my essentials tool wise are my piercing saw and a good supply of blades, my vice, my anvil, hammers, a torch, soldering bricks, my dremel, and my pliers/cutters. Then you get into materials and it's a whole new ball game! There are so many nice, shiny and sparkly things out there that it's easy to get tempted into buying something you don't really need or will never use. This forum is great for any questions you have, and is a mighty useful tool in itself!
Have fun experimenting!

Celia

[DragonflyLynne]

Hello John, great to meet you! :)

[Dennis]

Welcome, John.
You are already trying out tools and equipment on your course and if you look back to last week I recommended my Book Of The Year which would cover much of what you need to know.
Most members have a graveyard of tools they never use, so only buy for what you are making at present.
You will also note that the traditional finish for jewellery is a high gloss, but this also highlights any faults and firescale. Personally I prefer a satin finish, which can be achieved with pumice, steel wool, glass brushes, Scotchbrite wheels and pads, emery paper, micromesh and radial wheels.
Of course if you have a tumbler you can get a satin finish with that, but in 16 years I have never bought one.
Have a good time, Dennis.

[foidster]

Thanks everyone for your lovely warm welcome. First of all Dennis, here's the basket (A bit messy). Missing from this are hammers (particularly hide or plastic for rings) and I figure I would like a mandrel for rings too.

Bench Peg And Anvil

EA £9.95 Starter Soldering Kit, EA £71.75 Tools Student Starter Kit £66.00 Sterling Silver Round Wire 1.00mm Diameter DI 1.000MM LE 4000.000MM

32.64 GM £20.06 Change / Remove
Sterling Silver Round Wire 1.50mm Diameter DI 1.500MM LE 1000.000MM

18.36 GM £11.28 Sterling Silver Sheet 1.00mm Thick,Fully Annealed Soft TH 1.000MM WI

Sterling Silver Sheet 1.00mm Thick,Fully Annealed Soft TH 1.000MM WI


Silver Jump Ring Heavy 6mm, 12.7g=100 Pieces

10.00 GM £8.20

Vallorbe Saw Blades Grade 2, BundleOf 12

EA £5.00 Update / Remove
Duo Polishing Cloth

Net Price £293.04
Postage & Packing £11.00
VAT £53.21
Total Price £357.25

Anyway. I think I'm getting clearer day by day. I keep reading and learning and it's coming clearer! It still all looks a bit mysterious but I will start my course in a few weeks and I'm sure all will come clear shortly. I can't really put any names to designing heroes but I have been looking around on the web at peoples work and there is some great stuff. Although I personally don't really wear jewellery I do like "polished" stuff. I think this is what I'm most drawn to produce. I think silver has such a lovely look when it is highly polished that it seems a shame to leave it rough, but I also know that in the long run we'll be catering to all tastes and some people like chunky and rough. I will stretch myself! : ) What I've learned so far is how to make simple s chain bracelets, simple rings, pendant cutting and simple earring and hooks. I am an experiementer by nature so will probably make a few of the simplest things first and then start thinking about where I want to go once I'm feeling comfortable with the work so far. I'll read through the old posts here when I get time and I'm sure I'll learn from them too. Anyway. It was just to say Hi really and thanks for your warm responses. When I get going I'll post some photos and things (if that's allowed?) I'll check the rules before I do anything. I saw someone get told off the other day! : )

All the best

John

[sonia]

Hi John :welcome:

I am also fairly new - I started 9 months ago. Are you doing the course at college?/evenings? You may find that you can buy the silver from the tutor to start with until you get a feel for what silver you use the most. That's what I did. It would save you some money now from your basket - also you're not getting the best price because you're buying small amounts. I try to buy at least 50g at a time of something so I get the cheaper price but you need to be sure you'll use it.

Our tutor recommended a nylon headed hammer as it doesn't mark the metal and you can get the replacement heads for it.

It is a bit overwhelming when you start and I remember saying to my son "why on earth would I need all those pliers/hammers/files etc! famous last words - it is very addictive.

I would only buy what you need when you need it otherwise as Dennis says you'll have tools you don't use.

Sonia

x

:~:

[Joe]

Welcome!!

On saw blades, we all have our preferences, but I'd find the No2 you've packed a bit coarse for the 1mm sheet you're buying, I wouldn't go coarser than 2/0 which are in the basic kit (and to the ridicule of everyone else I'd probably use 6/0).

I'm not sure about the starter kits myself... would you consider buying fewer for now and investing a tad extra in a few key areas? You'll still need flux (borax cone & dish), soldering block, solder strip, safety-pickle.

Saw frame - The Knew Concept one is considered the state-of-the-art at the moment (Knew Concept Jewellers Saw 3 inch (http://www.palmermetals.co.uk/Knew-Concept-Jewellers-Saw-3-inch-20643.aspx))

Files - Cookson have a nice range of Vallorbe cut4 needle files which are much lovelier than the basic ones.

Torch - the Proxon torch has been getting good reviews (999 7703); the torch seems to be the real stumbling block for beginners.

Soldering tweezers - it was thanks to Dennis I invested in Cooksons short titanium tweezers (999 1261); they are very flexible indeed and worth the extra (I barely use my pick).

The Duo polishing cloth isn't going to get you the finish you're after; on the dremmel, tripoli, rouge and the little leather wheels (999 ACQ) will get you further...

[Joe]

Oh, and before he has to shamefully promote himself... do check out Andrew Berry's videos on YouTube and On-Line Jewellery Courses and Training for Jewellers – At The Bench: Home (http://www.atthebench.com/) for some brilliant tips about tools.

[ps_bond]

I'd definitely agree on the saw blades - my bog-standard is 4/0 for most stuff, but I use 2 & 4 for cutting thicker steel; 6/0 & 8/0 for finer work.
Less sure about the Knew Concept saw as a beginner's one; they're a luxury item and I'd only really suggest one after getting to grips with a traditional frame. They really come into their own with the larger frame sizes too.
Files - you really, really can't beat good files. The Vallorbe needle files are a joy to use in comparison with cheaper ones; I used a set of Kennedy cut 2 for ages before going over to the Vallorbes.

[Joe]

Ooo, you asked about Ebay tools too...

Well, it is a good resource, but apart from second-hand branded items, there's a lot to watch out for!

There are two particularly expensive objects-of-desire that people seem to lust after and have cheap versions on Ebay: The Swanstrom Disc Cutter and a Rolling Mill.

The cheap versions of the rolling mills have varying reviews, but they do at least seem to work at least for a bit. The cheap versions of the disc cutters have poorer reviews and will probably disappoint from first use.

I would recommend Proops-Brothers on Ebay for useable tools but perhaps not top-notch quality.

[jille]

hello I'm new to all this too.
Someone on one of the forums mentioned using a kids national geographic tumbler for polishing, so i bought one, and some steel shot. It works fine so long your pieces fit thru the opening
Jille

[Dennis]

If you have the mini-torch in the starter kit, it will only do for very small items such as chains, jump rings and maybe cufflinks. A good beginner's option for bigger items is a Taymar, or GoSystem plumbing torch from a DIY place. It should be self-igniting, and the gas should be propane/butane mix. This is all I ever use. Get it from somewhere within easy reach, or you might find the refills difficult to buy.
The size of the cylinder only affects the available working time, the power is related to the diameter of the burner and the type of gas. You will also need a flame resistant soldering hearth, such as a large roasting tin or cheap barbecue base and an open window for ventilation. You don’t need charcoal for silver, but more than one brick will be useful to reflect heat back onto your work. Sorry if the advice is getting a bit heavy, Dennis.

[foidster]

Wow. Thanks again guys for your truly valued input! I have time as I'm still completing the workshop (currently sealing all the holes that the potato bugs are getting in!) You have all given me exactly the kind of advice I need. I will take it!! I need a bit of a rethink now. When I get a little proper time I'll go through the list again and see if I can add and trim to a better fit.

I'm really grateful for your responses. Thanks so much. It is wonderful to have a sense of support right now. I really want to do this...and I will! : )

[FVT]

Hi John, I'm also a Bristol resident so a special welcome from me :) I'd be interested to know which course it is you are doing. I haven't done any courses as yet, but have been bumbling along on my own trying to learn as much as I can about working with silver and silver clay.
I am a self-confessed tool addict (like most people on here I expect!) and have rapidly built up quite a collection :"> I have to agree with what Dennis said about ending up with a 'grave yard'! Personally I'd be wary of buying starter kits as to me they often seem to contain stuff that I already have, or maybe don't need. Your shopping list does sound quite pricey for the number of items you have on there. Maybe you should consider little tweaks such as making your own jumprings and scouting around the shops on the streets for hammers/files etc. I only recently discovered Bristol Tools on Gloucester Rd, for example, who have quite a nice little stash of hammers/files/drill bits etc...and a lot of the prices are cheaper than most internet suppliers...a rare find in this day and age :) And it's refreshing to actually see stuff 'in the flesh' and be able to chat to someone for more advice.
Anyway, good luck with the shopping, I know it's a bit overwhelming at first!! Looking forward to seeing what you create!

[wheely]

Oh, and before he has to shamefully promote himself... do check out Andrew Berry's videos on YouTube and On-Line Jewellery Courses and Training for Jewellers – At The Bench: Home (http://www.atthebench.com/) for some brilliant tips about tools.

:offtopic: :funny:

[foidster]

Hi FVT, Thanks for your post. I've been wondering if there was somewhere I could go like that. That's really helpful. I think it's all the little bits that can add up. The course is at Windmill Hill City Farm. If you google "C3521542" you'll find it. It's run by the Workers Educational Association and is an "improvers" course. I still haven't bought anything at all yet. I think once my workshop space is finished (another week or so) then I'll get moving but the tool shop is a brilliant tip. Maybe they'd have a vice? No immediate rush but after a lot of hard work converting my old spider filled shed into a super cosy workshop I'm feeling pretty committed! I've built a super sturdy jewellers bench and a nice work table top with shelves from scratch. It seems I'm pretty handy as a carpenter too. It's just jewellery on a bigger scale! : ) So yes. Will definitely stay in touch. Might see you at the course! If not maybe at some other point we could stay in touch through the forum and meet someday to swap techniques. (No pressure....just nice to have kindred spirits around!). Keep up the good work. Will keep you posted as I go.

Cheers

John

[FVT]

Hi John,

I had a look into the course. I've heard murmurings about Windmill Hill before, sounds like fun :-) I'll be interested to hear how you get on with it. Sounds like you have a nice workspace evolving! I'd love to make my own bench one day :-) Currently I'm using a very nice wooden table, but it's too lovely to make marks in so I have to be extra careful! Anyway, good luck with the course...and yes maybe we can 'talk tools & techniques' one day!

[andrew_berry]

Hi John and welcome to the forum.

Thanks Joe for the plug. Got there before I did. LOL

Great place to be with loads of helpfull members.


Andrew

[FVT]

Hi again John....if you are a carpenter you probably already know it, but rediscovered this great shop today in Bristol:

Bristol Design Woodworking Tools (http://www.bristol-design.co.uk/)

They have a mix of new and secondhand tools. I got a great little domed stake, and some other useful looking little tools...and nice chaps to chat to in there too :-)

[Green Beetle]

Also remember Cooksons(and others) freepost weekends and offers. I've found it not only saves a load when ordering heavy and hazardous stuff but sometimes waiting for the next one to come along means I can think through if I really, really need another pair of pliers, hammer, doming set, disc punch ...

You get the picture.

Welcome to the forum and it would be great to see photos of your workshop.

GB

[bob flemming]

Hello from another Bristolian! Well, I'm Welsh, but I live here. Thanks for the tip about the tool shop in Gloucester Road, FVT, didn't know about them. Was up there yesterday as well, damn! I quite like the idea of a Bristol Cooksons meet!

[Joe]

I see that Cookies have a new offer on some of their basics...

[lynnm]

I'm Bristol to! A meet sounds great!

[FVT]

Sounds like a Bristol get together is on the cards then?! F.x.

[lynnm]

great, can't wait!