Versatip/Versaflame query

[noname]

For these products what is the temperature range and minimum size of working flame?

[noname]

technical specifications found on cooksons products

[Wendy Moriarty]

For these products what is the temperature range and minimum size of working flame?
I have one and you would be better off with a 'Go system' or 'Taymar' as the one I have (it was the cheaper of the two) will only solder thinish silverto be able to solder rings and bangles, and I am now having to purchase a new torch, both the torches above are a fraction of the price of the dremmels. Hope this helps
Wendy

[noname]

Thanks for replying. Not sure what 'Go system' is... by 'Taymar' ...resealable, removeable, threaded butane/propane gas canister torch. I use a 'Taymar' type torch and also one of the small butane refillable torches purchased from Cooksons. These usually cover most of my soldering needs. However, just occasionally, I have a requirement for a smaller flame size. A microweld is not an option and neither are torches trailing hoses, household environment so burnt gases need to be 'clean'! Some years ago I saw two torches with a suitable flame...one was the size of a fountain pen (refillable by butane canister). and the other torch ran off little gas cartridges about 2" long. Must be something similar available...engineering, electronics, modelmaking, dentistry...?

[Dennis]

I am not sure what application you are thinking of, as I don't feel the need for anything smaller than the usual refillable minitorch with an adjustable air intake.
That said I have tried an inexpensive pencil torch from Maplin, but for silver at least, it was more liely to melt a chain link than solder it.

Another option along the lines you describe is the Miniflam 'S' and other dental torches which you will find at Chaperlain and Jacobs http://www.chaperlin.co.uk/catalogue/#/77/zoomed, on pp76&77. Unfortunately their online catalogue with its moving pages makes me sea-sick. Dennis.

[noname]

Thank you... had a look at Chaperlaine and Jacobs...found website tricky to browse though...Microtorch was good for manufacture of chain link, but not good for the repair midway along length, (missed one link and barely soldered the other)...couldn't get the work hot enough...used larger torch, but made for a very messy cleanup up job...and was just a little bit too nerve racking. Looked at the Solderpro 50 (pin point 1300'C adjustable flame) on Maplins thank you. Looks like that may do the job...Is this the type of "pencil torch" you tried and If so, how did it compare in use compared to microtorch, please?
Chain link: 1mm round wire...Silver ..... 9 & 1/2" bracelet.....Persian weave/foxtail style.....Tight weave, flexible once worn in but not a lot of room for repair work.
noname.

[Dennis]

Quote: 'Looked at the Solderpro 50'.

No I have not tried that one, and I don’t do Maille, but I can see your problem. The many links in contact are conducting away your heat, while you are trying to re-solder just one.

In this case I would do two things:
1.Build a cave out of bricks with the front open to retain your heat better.
2.Very gently warm up the whole piece with the Taymar torch, but not to a visible redness. This will provide the background heat. Keep it going with my left hand and home in to solder the joint using a mini-torch in my right hand.

Be ready to pull the big torch away as soon as you see a change in the solder and continue with the little torch until the flow is complete. In fact you are re-enacting 'High Noon'.

In my picture the cave of bricks has been made too hot for this job, but I don’t think you need to buy another torch at all. Regards, Dennis.

[Patstone]

Hi Dennis, its your nuisance call from Exeter again, I sent an email to Cooksons the other day to ask what the torch was that was in their rotating advert that had a pencil lead sized flame, because I too am having difficulty soldering jumprings without the heat melting the rest of the work. As you may remember I have a sight impediment and cant judge the distance of flame from work very well, I seem to concentrate so hard on the jumpring that I forget that the heat melts stuff close by, so end up with a lovely soldered jumpring and a melted pendant. I have a Bullfinch torch run with a butane cylinder and hose, I also have a Cooksons hand held torch, but I think that something with a smaller narrower flame would be more helpful with my sight problem. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Pat

[iori]

I've been thing of making a small hearth like you but have been undecided on its size. Would I be right in thinking that your open front is about 4-5ins. square?
I've found a site called Kiln Linings on the net and they look like a decent supplier, do I just need standard firebricks? Thank you
Iori

[Dennis]

Ha its question time, I see.

Hi Pat, for jump rings and chains I never use anything but the mini torch in my picture, with both the flame size and air vent reduced a little. Finer and fiercer thin flames are liable to melt wires and destroy solder before it can flow.
If you have no success with hard solder for this, try easy paste applied with a brush or probe. You might find that better. Some people still apply some extra flux, although it is not essential. To prevent paste drying out, dip the nozzle in water before re-capping it. I also find holding chain links in fine, self closing titanium tweezers from Cookson helps you to see better, but it is still fairly challenging to keep the rest of the chain out of the way of the flame. Some jewellers cut a slot in the side of their bench peg to Keep plain tweezers closed and have their hands free.

Iory, what you see is not permanent. It’s just five soldering bricks put together. I happened to have four small ones for the sides, back and top. The one at the back is up on end and there is a larger one for the base. Mine are on an iron tripod for extra height. Regards, Dennis.

[noname]

Had a look at "solderpro 50" torch, it was not suitable for job, (too agressive)... Kiln idea good...but not enough soldering blocks on my bench...didn't need to use two torch method...bit the bullet, protected solder joints and went in with micro torch...didn,t pack chain with "cool heat" this time which may have been part of the problem the first time round. Used jewellers rouge, (messy clean up job)...Hard solder...came out OK...Thank you

[iori]

Dear noname, could you explain your use of jewellers rouge instead of "cool heat" (which I presume is the same as "thermo gel" ). I'm not familiar with this technique at all! Thank you very much.
Iori.

[noname]

Solderpro 50 did not do as it appeared to say on the packaging...

[Dennis]

You did good, as they say over the pond. Yes protecting the chain from heat is the very opposite of what you need, particularly with a good conductor like silver. Some members swear by Tippex as an antiflux and that may be less messy. Regards, Dennis.

[Melanie De Castro Pugh]

I have a "Go System" refillable micro torch that I use for soldering collets, jumprings and other teeny stuff. Got it in B&Q, runs off lighter fluid and has a pencil flame tip or a soldering tip (which I have yet to use). It's powerful enough to solder settings to ring shanks, my big blowtorch is a bit fierce for small scale work, but perfect for firing pmc and annealing. I did try soldering a jumpring to chain with the big one... and melted about four inches of it #-o Not tried doing anything with chain since, so would welcome tips on how to do it (with just one firing brick!).

[ps_bond]

Dear noname, could you explain your use of jewellers rouge instead of "cool heat" (which I presume is the same as "thermo gel" ). I'm not familiar with this technique at all! Thank you very much.
Iori.

Mix some powdered rouge to a paste with either water or meths, paint it onto the object as a solder resist, then dry it carefully before continuing with soldering.
I have to say I don't seem to get along very well with Thermo Gel, although that could just be lack of familiarity.

[Dennis]

Quote: I did try soldering a jump ring to chain .

My previous comment was for tightly woven links, as in maille, where it is difficult to isolate one ring.

I think we are now going up the wrong path. To close a jump ring attached to a chain, there is absolutely no need to use any antiflux, or gunk whatsoever. Just use a micro torch with the air and the gas slightly reduced. Mine, which I showed above is a common enough one and came from Cooksons.

Hold the jump ring in very fine tweezers with the join uppermost and the chain hanging down out of the way, apply a minute amount of solder behind and begin to heat very cautiously from in front, so as not to heat the solder directly. By cautiously I mean keeping the tip of the flame further back at first and moving it on and off the jump ring to start with. Remove the flame immediately the solder flows.

The whole process might take 5- 10 seconds. It helps a lot to do this in semi darkness, so that you can see at once if you are over heating one part. There should only be a dull glow. Dennis.

[Melanie De Castro Pugh]

Thank you Dennis, that's exactly what I needed to know! I made blackout curtains for my shed, so that I could fire clay without melting it, so semi darkness is no problemo :-) I shall give that a bash later. Mel