hello and help please

[sandmor1]

Hi...I'm Sandra and I live in Bedfordshire. I have just started on metal clay. (the latest on a long line of crafty hobbies)

My first effort went reasonably well, at least it stayed together. I have made 3 more pieces but they have all cracked and broken during sanding. These three have all been a bit thicker than the first effort, maybe 1/8".

After taking the piece from the packet I have kneaded it slightly, it has always rolled into a smooth ball and rolled out without cracks. It is only the next day after airdrying I have seen the cracks.

I am sure this will have been covered many times before on this forum but could someone please make a suggestion as to what I can do to prevent it happening again.

I guess the answer lies in the soil....no sorry wrong hobby:)....I guess the answer lies with the moisture of the clay but because it appears to be quite pliable and moist when rolling out I have assumed it is OK.

I am off to do a one day course in June but I will be pennyless before then if I have to keep on buying packets of clay. I know I can recycle the dried clay but I guess I will have lots of slip but no clay

TIA
Sandra

[HannahJewelleryDesigns]

Hello!
Cant help with the PMC im afraid, but there are a few PMC legends on here who no doubt will be able to :D
Just wanted to say welcome along!

[Gemma]

Can you fill in the cracks with slip?

I don't really know what I'm talking about. You should have seen my first (and currently only) attempt at pmc! ...where's Nic when you need her....

:welcome: in anyway Sandra

[Lou]

Hi!
It may be that it is drying too quickly while you are working with it, you need to keep it moist enough to be pliable but not too wet that it sticks all over your fingers. Are you using PMC or art clay silver? I work with art clay and use the slow dry, gives me that extra bit of working time.
Nic will have more infor than me though :)
L

[FiredSilver]

Hi Sandra - are you working with Art Clay or PMC? I'm thinking art clay from how you've described the problem - you need to condition the clay before using it.

So, place the clay from the pack into a sheet of cling film and fold the top of the cling film over so that the clay is sandwiched. Press the clay out as thin as you can, then peel the cling film away and rub a bit of water over the surface, fold the clay in half using the cling film, not your fingers (i describe it as like making a swiss roll!!), fold it over on itself a few times always with the cling film not fingers and it'll start to become more pliable. You can repeat the process if you're still not happy with the consistency.

Hope that helps.

Becci
xx

[MuranoSilver]

Are you putting some kind of oil on your board or hands?
If you are you may be using too much and creating
the clay equivalent of filo pastry....
Nic x

[bustagasket]

Welcome to the forums. No expertise in PMC from me i'm afraid :)

[sandmor1]

Are you putting some kind of oil on your board or hands?
If you are you may be using too much and creating
the clay equivalent of filo pastry....
Nic x

First off, thank you to all of you who have tried to help.

I have a feeling that the "filo pastry" might be the answer. I have very dry skin and I read on a site "rinse hands in hot water, pour some olive oil into cupped palms and rub well in before drying off with paper towels." Well maybe my hands were more greasy than I thought. I have used both PMC+ and 3, though the first one which didn't crack was 3 and the three which cracked were PMC+ and I only used the oil on those ones not the first one.

I have today ordered 20gm of Art Clay. I am certain that the problem lies entirely with me and not PMC but I am just keen to try and compare the different brands.

Later this evening I will be off to have another go and I will NOT be using the olive oil remedy. Just the small amount of hand balm as recommended.

Thank you
Sandra

[elliboo]

Hello :~:
Sorry, not a PMC legend, but I don't find that I need to use anything on my hands - if the clay is nice and soft it shouldn't stick to your fingers. I'd agree with Nic - it sounds like you've got lovely pliable clay to start with and the problem is only when it's drying. I use a little balm on a ceramic tile to roll out my clay, and a little oil on texturing mats but otherwise don't use any extra.

You can reclaim the dried out clay to useable clay, not just slip but it does take more work - try here if it's in a lump (http://www.silverclayart.com/reclaim_clay.htm), and here if it's in bits (http://langeestla.canalblog.com/archives/2008/11/17/11402093.html) - I've just bought a coffee grinder to reclaim bigger bits but if it's only a small piece you should be ok with these! HTH!

Sharon

[FiredSilver]

I never use olive oil, i find it just creates too much of a slick! Badger Balm is great, I never add it to my hands (and I have pretty dry hands!), just use enough to coat the texture mat, or work surface (if you're not using non-stick), you really don't need much.

Have fun experimenting and remember to condition your Art Clay first.

Becci
xx

[lorraineflee]

Hi
I'm also from Bedfordshire - right up in the northern end! I use Badger Balm too.
Lorraine

[MuranoSilver]

I use coolslip it's fantastic stuff and much less gunky than olive oil or badger balm
Lasts for ages too :)
Nic xx

[sandmor1]

Well I have had another go and it turned out much better.

No olive oil but one of my other (many) hobbies is soap making and creams and lotions so I have made a hand balm very similar to Badger Balm and I used that. Just a smidgen. It is a solid and non greasy.

I also think I am rolling out too thin. I am using 4 cards thick but I think it would look better a bit thicker....oh sorry it's a pendent.... What thickness would you recommend?
I know that really that is probably a very personal choice but I'm guessing that there is also a kind of recognized or suggested thickness.

I haven't received the Art Clay packet yet but when I do I will remember to condition it.

I would love to be making several items each day but that is really not an option.
A packet of clay a day = £30 x 7 (days a week) = the divorce court.

Then apart from the toiletries there is also machine embroidery and card making and....well I could go on and on.

I am lucky in that I have a large craft room all to myself and a DH who works while I am happily retired.

Oh and I live at the bottom end of Beds..in a little village near Toddington

Sandra

[Di Sandland]

..in a little village near Toddington

Sandra

Hi Sandra - I used to live in Houghton Regis - knew it from when it was a village. It became the bum of the world. I live in North Devon now.

[sandmor1]

Hi Sandra - I used to live in Houghton Regis - knew it from when it was a village. It became the bum of the world. I live in North Devon now.

Hi Di....well if you lived in Houghton Regis then you will know Chalton.

Sandra

[Di Sandland]

Hi Di....well if you lived in Houghton Regis then you will know Chalton.

Sandra

very well indeed! Used to drink at The Star ;-)

[sandmor1]

very well indeed! Used to drink at The Star ;-)


It's just near completion of a big renovation....

[lorraineflee]

very well indeed! Used to drink at The Star ;-)
Takes me back to my youth - I used to drink there too when I lived in Luton!

Lorraine

[sandmor1]

Well I can't say I like Art Clay very much. I bought a 20gm packet to try. The clay was stuck tight to the folds of the little pouch inside the packet. I tried scraping it off but I was just getting dried up scrapings. I seemed to be wasting a lot. (OK I know it can still be used but it was such a mess) I put the lump that was left in one piece into the cling film as mentioned and went through the advice. Moisten slightly/fold using the film.. continue as necessary..but right from the first it just stuck to the film.
No..sorry...don't like it. I shall use it for slip and stick to PMC3.
Thats a point..can I use Art Clay slip on PMC3?
Sandra

[MuranoSilver]

Hi Sandra
If it was sticking to the cling film then it was too wet and adding water wouldn't have helped :(
Well conditioned Art Clay doesn't stick to anything. I've made a movie of unwrapping the clay and conditioning it
(so you can see if that was what yours was like) will upload it in a while once it's processed
Nic xx

[FVT]

Looking forward to the movie Nic :-) Just been reading through this thread for the first time. I've only ever used ArtClay (Slow-Dry), mainly as I prefer torch-firing...but it did take a bit of getting used to at the start, I made the mistake adding too much moisture and half of it just seem to be washed away! These days I just try to work as quick as possible, and touch to clay with my hands for minimal time....I usually smear some badger balm onto a couple of small sheets of acetate, then 'sandwich' the clay between these and start rolling (using cards to determine the thickness).
Sandra that packet you've just received sounds a bit dodgy....are you sure they didn't squash it before the sent it to you??!
Interesting to hear the difference with PMC3, am I right in thinking you can only kiln fire this range? And did I hear that it shrinks more than Art Clay?

[sandmor1]

Thank you Nic..that would be very useful...
maybe I shouldn't have added the water but it seemed very dry when I was trying to get it out of the inner pouch. Inside the pouch was the clay wrapped in plastic film but this had squelched out top and bottom and was stuck to the pouch. Just a mess and it was a bit crumbly. Maybe I was just a bit unlucky and being a novice I wouldn't know what it should have been like.
But I still think I will stick (no pun intended) with PMC 3.
I suppose I could use it to make a couple of leaves...but could you tell me, please...can I use Art Clay slip on PMC3?
Thanks
Sandra

[FVT]

A fresh batch of Art Clay should be a neat little rectangle that looks a bit like a small eraser...with the film wrapped around the outside. If I were you I'd think about complaining to whoever you bought it from, I've never had a pack that messy :( Sure, you can always rework any type of clay to bring it back to life, but it shouldn't be in that state when you receive it.

I'd be wary of mixing Art Clay and PMC3....I think I did see somewhere that they are quite different, but don't quote me on that...I'm sure one of the more expert clay users will come along and answer you in a more accurate way!

[MuranoSilver]

The mini-vids have been uploaded into my photo-stream (am working on some PMC ones next)
This is the Opening the Packet ~ what it should look & feel like (http://www.flickr.com/photos/muranosilver/4615097391/)
here's Rolling out the Clay (http://www.flickr.com/photos/muranosilver/4615742496/)
and Using a texture mat with Silver Clay (http://www.flickr.com/photos/muranosilver/4615771886/).
I'd avoid mixing the two brands of clays as the binders and shrinkage rates are slightly different.
Nic xx

[FVT]

Nice little vids :-) I'm usually a bit mean with the clay, and cut little snippets off the block as and when I need them...now I'm wondering if I should condition the whole lot before doing anything at all..and quickly wrap up and store the left over amount.
With regards to using cutters, I learned a good little tip (can't remember where from!) but if you place a piece of cling film over the clay before you use your cutter, it serves two purposes...the clay won't get stuck to the side of the cutter, and also gives you a nice rounded edge on the top surface...of course that is a 'personal choice' thing but I think it usually looks much nicer :-)

[MuranoSilver]

Conditioning the block is easier than conditioning snippets but once conditioned you can still cut bits off it :Y:
If I'm using the cutter lots then I normally spray coolslip on a saucer and then dip the cutter edge into it.
(Which also stops the cutter sticking) never tried the cling film tip but I find the edges get curvy anyway as I use sanding pads
Nic xx

[FVT]

Where do you get coolslip from? I've never heard of it until now. I know what you mean about sanding the edges, I just find the cling film gives an instant perfectly shaped round edge, without any wastage at the sanding stage :-) This is totally down to whether the design requires it or not, of course! I tend to be a little bit too OCD-ish when it comes to perfect shapes :">

[MuranoSilver]

Coolslip is available from quite a few suppliers, I tend to get mine from Petra over at silverclay.co.uk
(it lasts ages!)
nic x

[vsilvered]

PMC3 can indeed be torch fired!

The different shrinkage rates can produce surprising and interesting effects.

This brooch was made with a PMC3 base and the texture was made using Art Clay 650 Slow-Dry texture, then fired for 2 hours at 1650 deg F. If you look carefully you can see that the piece is slightly domed as the PMC3 base shrunk more than the Art Clay texture. :)

http://www.turquoisefruit.com/silver/brooch.jpg

[sandmor1]

Thank you for posting these videos, Nic. ...my little square didn't come out anything like yours. As i said, a lot had oozed out from the plastic and I would say that at least 1/3rd of it was stuck to either end of the pouch. Also the pouch was crushed on the two ends so the clay was stuck in the grooves. The clay was also dryish, it wasn't at all pliable as yours appears to be. I guess I was just unlucky. But I think all I can do is use it for leaves, if I can't use it as slip for PMC 3, unless I bite the bullet and buy another 20gms to give it one more try. But is it worth it...I don't know...pricewise there doesn't appear to be a lot of difference. Any advice regarding the two brands?
Sandra

[rainbow]

Sorry to be a bit thick but do I gather from this thats it's just a personal choice who uses silver clay and who uses pmc3? I've only used slow dry 650 silver clay and I have played with it very little now i'm all unsure if what I did was right. Mind you so far nothing has gone weird but i've not worn anything next to me skin yet.

[LydiaNiz]

hello,
I usually go for the slow dry - although I have used pmc3 too - I only torch fire my pieces.
What do you mean you're unsure if it what you did was right?
What did you do? if you have some pics that'd be fab :-)
Lyd x

[Wendy Moriarty]

Hi
I've only used art clay (slow drying) once and pmc3 twice and I much prefer the pmc, it's texture is much easier to work with and mold and roll, but a lot is down to personal choice. I found that both in paste form are ok, and just got my first syringe of pmc. A couple of my art cly pieces broke after kiln firing, I've not had any brakeage with pmc
Wendy :-)

[rainbow]

Thats interesting. I've got the tiniest Kiln in the world with 2 instructions number 8 for silver clay and 10 for glass. Bless it, there isn't even a manufacturers name on it but (fingers and toes crossed) my little bits seem to have fired fine. After reading this i've talked my kids into wearing my bits to see how they fair next to skin etc and we'll see. As for piccies it's far too early to come out of the closet LOL i'm still working my way through all the info on here and each time I read something I think "oh lord I did that wrong too" LOL a very steep learning curve. I think i'll have a go with the pmc and see what occurs, thanks