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MuranoSilver
25-01-2010, 11:00 AM
I'm quite happy with all types of bezel setting stones
but would quite like to try tube setting.

Is it best to learn this on facetted stones or cabs?
Should I start with CZs or a gemstone (I've got sapphires, peridots, topaz and diamonds to hand)

I know Peter suggested a DVD set a while back but I can't remember what it was called (think it was rubover setting).
Do I need a pillar drill or do you do it freehand with a pendant motor?

Sorry to ask so many questions *-:)
Nic xx

ps_bond
25-01-2010, 11:07 AM
I started out with facetted stones in tube settings; there's a really good tutorial on Ganoksin - [Ganoksin] Jewelry Making - Tube setting - an introduction to setting (http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/settube.htm)

Freehand, one burr to start cutting the seat and a setting burr to complete it is what I tend to do.

I don't *think* I've ever tube set a cab; I don't use cabs all that often really, and if I do they're usually chunky.

Might as well go for CZ to start with, they're not so bad when you manage to lose them on the floor!

The DVD I like is Bezel & Flush Setting by Blaine Lewis at Welcome to Jewelry Videos (http://www.jewelryvideos.com/) - if you have a look at the video clips you'll get some idea of why I'm quite so impressed by it.

Keep 'em coming... Bigwol should be able to add some more to this too?

MuranoSilver
25-01-2010, 11:48 AM
That Blaine Lewis Tutorial, I really really fancy getting that.
It's a shame no one in the UK sells it I can't get their shop site to work
so will have to e-mail them :(

If I started with 3mm & 4mm stones can you suggest some tube widths
that work well and aren't too difficult for beginners (my tolerence area may need to be wider as I embrace my initial wonk,lol)

Would I buy 3 & 4 mm burrs for that or a different size?
nic x

ps_bond
25-01-2010, 12:04 PM
I think Otto Frei carry it too? I bought mine direct; they were very helpful in communications.

For 3mm stones, I'd use a 3mm setting burr, a 2.9ish mm round burr (although I prefer bud burrs) - i.e. just fractionally smaller than the stone - and probably RSA004 tubing, per Dave's useful chart (http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/bullion/1149-handy-cookson-tube-size-comparison-guide.html) - makes for a really nice fit on 3mm stones; you've enough material to form a shelf to support the stone while the resulting wall isn't so thick it is difficult to burnish over.

4mm stones - 4mm setting burr, 3.9ish bud or round, RSA002 tubing.

Or draw your own tubing :)

You can of course cut the seat with gravers, but this is a bit quicker & easier for round stones.

ps_bond
25-01-2010, 12:08 PM
Forgot to say - the burrs more-or-less self-centre in the tubing, so the wall thickness isn't a problem. You end up with about 0.25mm with these dimensions - that's loads!

MuranoSilver
25-01-2010, 01:07 PM
Thanks Peter!
I'm off to order some Tube now :)
Hmm I have loads of burrs that I've hardly used but have no clue on size
do you measure them using a drill guage or put them in your diamond guage holes?
My measuring calipers have points so are useless grrr
nicx

ps_bond
25-01-2010, 01:15 PM
I use a cheap brass slide gauge - pick up the stone with it, then pop the burr between the jaws & turn it gently the wrong way. If the burr is too large then it forces the jaws open and the stone drops out of the gauge.

I don't tend to work with absolute measurements for this, unusually for me.

Might see if it works with my calipers this evening.

Dennis
26-01-2010, 08:39 PM
I find that turning the burrs by hand in a pin vise after wetting them with a trace of oil gives a good true setting and preserves the burrs.
Dare I mention that you use a piece of tubing long enough to hold comfortably,unless you have a chenier clamp, prepare the setting and then cut it off when it is ready? Unlike Peter I like to use my 100mm digital electronic calipers so that I can check and double check the size of everything.The cheapest ones are about £20 from Walsh or Maplin and you don't have to squint at a vernier.
Kind regards to both of you, Dennis.

ps_bond
26-01-2010, 09:34 PM
One thing that is pleasantly surprising about the £20 calipers is just how accurate they are, despite their low cost.

I do use absolute measurements elsewhere in setting, honest! :)

MuranoSilver
26-01-2010, 10:31 PM
Thanks Peter & Dennis :)
Dennis my pin vice is too small to hold the burrs that fit into my Foredom -
where can I purchase a bigger one?
Nic x

Dennis
28-01-2010, 09:09 PM
Cookies ofcourse. Page 513 of the current Cookbook.Either the top one, which is a bit long for a small hand, or the double ended one which will need a felt mop in the other end to protect your palm.

bob flemming
29-01-2010, 12:39 PM
Hello Nic,

This is exactly what I taught myself last weekend, so I have lots of tips. I may be repeating what you've been told already, sorry if I am.

I have been setting 4mm faceted stones into tube RDA 001, which is a 5mm wide tube with a 3.8mm inner dimension and 0.6mm wall. I've been using a 4mm stonesetting burr.

I tried quite a few different ways, but using the following method I can create a stud earring in less than half an hour. I'm typing it out here so that I can copy it into my jewellery notes later but it might come in useful for you/some else in future too.

1. Hold around 1cm of the tube in a ring clamp and place the ring clamp in a vice.
2. Make sure the face of the tube is flat.
3. Grease the burr and, making sure it is vertical, insert it into the tube to cut out the seat for the stone.
4. Turn the tube 90 degrees and repeat step 3. * Put in the stone to check how it sits, cut more of a seat if necessary. **

* This was a tip from Cogswell's Creative Stonesetting book, and it really ensures that your seat for the stone is even. I didn't do this before, and none of the stones sat level as a result.
** Tip from me: make sure your table has a skirt/you have very good eyesight/a torch for crawling about on the floor looking for your 4mm stone, which you are guaranteed to drop at least 15 times!

5. Remove the tube from the clamp and cut it down to the size you require. (If you're making stud earrings, solder on the post now and clean up).
6. Put the tube back into the ring clamp held in the vice (making sure you tighten it enough so it doesn't move, but not so much that you squash the tube into an oval shape).
7. Push in the stone, making sure that it sits level.
8. Using a cut 2 needle file, bezel over the edge. I spent a lot of time trying various ways to create the bezel: pusher, rocker etc, but I find that filing the silver over the stone to make a bezel is the neatest way.
9. Use a cut 4 needle file to clean up your filing and polish.

The finished result looks like this. It still needs a little extra filing, but to the naked eye it looks fine.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k202/parpace/020.jpg

Mila Jewellery
30-03-2010, 10:54 PM
So to set a 5mm stone would RSA 019, a 5.5mm tube be suitable do you think?

MuranoSilver
29-04-2010, 05:07 PM
So to set a 5mm stone would RSA 019, a 5.5mm tube be suitable do you think?
Pretty please to the Stone setting Gurus :)
Just got a really fab 5mm Garnet so is an RSA 019 good for that too?
Also have some nice 2mm and 2.5mm accent diamonds that came with a mixed parcel
is that the sort of thing that can be tube set like this... is it harder to set smaller stones?
Any suggestions re tube sizes for those?
Nic xx

Cathy at the Beach
29-04-2010, 08:08 PM
I don't know if this is of any interest to you guys...but how I do tube settings is to solder the correct depth of tube onto a backing ,just like you'd do for a bezel setting. I leave a little flange of silver so that I can clamp the tube which is soldered to the backing (before trimming) to my pin. I then have a firm grip and can cut my seat without the worry of the tube coming loose and flying off! After I'm happy with the seat, I trim off the excess silver and buff the edge and am left with a nicely finished bottom on my tube. I can then solder it where I want it and set the stone. The clamp I use is a heavy duty spring clamp I bought in the hardware store. (I have to use both hands to open it... :( )

Lucy
29-04-2010, 10:29 PM
Ohh I just have to add that the Blaine Lewis dvd's are awsome, and they would be more than happy to mail them to you. I have both and think they are well worth the money - Blaine is a genius at making the difficut simple :)

Ohh they have a facebook fan page now too - Welcome to Facebook | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/New-Approach-School-for-Jewelers/192846779366) if you are ever in the US and have the chance, you have to take a class there :)

MuranoSilver
29-04-2010, 10:32 PM
Lucy I'd love to get hold of Blaines DVDs
nic x

Lucy
29-04-2010, 10:51 PM
Welcome to Jewelry Videos (http://www.jewelryvideos.com/)

There you go :)

MuranoSilver
30-04-2010, 07:18 AM
I've already contacted New Approach but they haven't got back to me.
(Peter posted the link earlier) but thank you for posting it again.. :)
Anyone got any suggestions re tube sizes?


So to set a 5mm stone would RSA 019, a 5.5mm tube be suitable do you think?
Pretty please to the Stone setting Gurus :)
Just got a really fab 5mm Garnet so is an RSA 019 good for that too?
Also have some nice 2mm and 2.5mm accent diamonds that came with a mixed parcel
is that the sort of thing that can be tube set like this... is it harder to set smaller stones?
Any suggestions re tube sizes for those?
Nic xx

Dennis
30-04-2010, 02:48 PM
Dear Nic,
By this time you will have had lots of advice, so I should just like to offer a summary . If you look back to earlier this year, you will see that Peter outlined a method not involving any measuring, while I prefer to use electronic callipers. That is a matter of choice. One problem with callipers is that people have difficulty in getting a true reading because they have to be zeroed each time they are turned on, much like when you use scales for weighing.
Gemstones of a nominal size will vary even out of the same packet. So say ‘3mm dia.’ stones might measure 2.9, or 3.3. This can make a difference to your choice of tubing. You would aim to have a rim to push over of about 0.2-0.3mm in thickness, so for a 2mm stone you might select 2.4mm outside diameter tubing. That said I much prefer to have a selection of tubes near the size I am after, as tubes can also vary from batch to batch. You could buy say, 6cm of each, which in silver would not be very expensive. That would even allow you to have a practice run, with a cheaper stone, such as a CZ. They can easily be cut out again with a saw and you would only waste about two mm of silver. Not a high price for the experience.
What size tube settings you make will depend on the size of tubing available, the size of burrs listed and your eyesight. I baulk at anything below 2mm and generally make my own bezels above 6mm.
I start by holding a long piece of tubing, insert the burr, and open up until the girdle of the stone just fits inside. Later the table of the stone will have to be more or less flush with the rim, giving some metal to push over. I do not complete this until after soldering, because thin tubing tends to widen with heat. Then I cut off the length I need. After soldering I make my final adjustment using a burr with a touch of oil in a pin vice. Some people happily use only round burrs, but I prefer to finish with setting burrs, to get a more positive feel. For size, I refer to the Cook Book.
When setting smaller stones I squeeze carefully with round nosed pliers, just above the girdle of the stone. Squeezing below would make the stone pop out. Kind regards, Dennis.

MuranoSilver
30-04-2010, 03:49 PM
Dear Nic,
By this time you will have had lots of advice, so I should just like to offer a summary . If you look back to earlier this year, you will see that Peter outlined a method not involving any measuring, while I prefer to use electronic callipers. That is a matter of choice. One problem with callipers is that people have difficulty in getting a true reading because they have to be zeroed each time they are turned on, much like when you use scales for weighing.
Gemstones of a nominal size will vary even out of the same packet. So say ‘3mm dia.’ stones might measure 2.9, or 3.3. This can make a difference to your choice of tubing. You would aim to have a rim to push over of about 0.2-0.3mm in thickness, so for a 2mm stone you might select 2.4mm outside diameter tubing. That said I much prefer to have a selection of tubes near the size I am after, as tubes can also vary from batch to batch. You could buy say, 6cm of each, which in silver would not be very expensive. That would even allow you to have a practice run, with a cheaper stone, such as a CZ. They can easily be cut out again with a saw and you would only waste about two mm of silver. Not a high price for the experience.
What size tube settings you make will depend on the size of tubing available, the size of burrs listed and your eyesight. I baulk at anything below 2mm and generally make my own bezels above 6mm.
I start by holding a long piece of tubing, insert the burr, and open up until the girdle of the stone just fits inside. Later the table of the stone will have to be more or less flush with the rim, giving some metal to push over. I do not complete this until after soldering, because thin tubing tends to widen with heat. Then I cut off the length I need. After soldering I make my final adjustment using a burr with a touch of oil in a pin vice. Some people happily use only round burrs, but I prefer to finish with setting burrs, to get a more positive feel. For size, I refer to the Cook Book.
When setting smaller stones I squeeze carefully with round nosed pliers, just above the girdle of the stone. Squeezing below would make the stone pop out. Kind regards, Dennis.

Thank you so, so much Dennis!
:respekt:

I can now happily go off and buy lots of tube and you're right 6cm lengths would give me plenty
of playing time!
Thank you
Nic xx

Dennis
30-04-2010, 08:48 PM
Glad you liked it. I forgot to mention that for finishing, a burnish round with the same pliars closed, maybe all you need. D.

adiamore07
04-05-2010, 11:33 AM
I rally like your discussion. I want to know something about setting a stone in Engagement Ring.

ps_bond
04-05-2010, 11:54 AM
Well, that does rather depend on the setting, doesn't it? The classic - as I'm sure you're well aware - is the claw-set solitaire. All the basics on cutting a seat are pretty much the same, closing the prongs over (rather than working all the way around) & shaping them is the only significant difference.

mizgeorge
04-05-2010, 12:18 PM
I rally like your discussion. I want to know something about setting a stone in Engagement Ring.

Personally, I'm particularly fond of the spam setting for this type of ring.

ps_bond
04-05-2010, 12:31 PM
I guess you could form a bezel from the tin; the stuff's malleable enough. Would you just use the tin, or leave the contents in situ?

Lucy
04-05-2010, 04:20 PM
Nic - I posted this in another post - but if you want a Blaine Lewis DVD - its best to give them a call, they get a lot of emails - many of them time wasting, so if you truely want a DVD, give them a call. 001.800.529.4763 (from the UK)

MuranoSilver
04-05-2010, 05:10 PM
Thanks Lucy
Have phoned them and left a message
Nic xx