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Milomade
26-07-2009, 10:27 AM
I thin the silver wire I've got at the moment is Soft as it marks really easily and I'm trying to make jump rings out f it at the moment and it's bending a lot when I'm trying to saw through it. So thinking of ordering some different stuff today and benefit from the free P&P this w/e

Any advice of what to get to make jump rings?

The stuff I have is HSA 080 - 0.80mm
Should I go for HSA 469 - 0.80mm instead [described as Sterling Silver Round Wire]
Or this HSA 408 - 0.80mm [described as Sterling Silver: Hard]

All on page 37 of the catalogue

The Bijou Dragon
26-07-2009, 11:51 AM
Hi

Soft wire won't hold any weight, you're better off making jump rings out of half hard wire as it's still easily workable but will hold alot more weight.

Also, it won't mark quite as easily :)

Solunar Silver Studio
26-07-2009, 12:11 PM
There doesn't seem to be many people logged in today...perhaps they are all having a lie in!:rolleyes:
I'm not a lot of help I'm afraid as I use fine silver wire - and I buy in 1mm and draw it down to the thickness I need when I need it....so I anneal it to soften it before I draw it...which then hardens it up again.... and so on...

You could always tumble your 'coil' of jumprings before you cut them to harden them up a bit or alternatively, I wrap a little strip of masking tape around my coiled jumpring 'tubes' and tuck the ends in...I then cut the rings from the inside out - if you see what I mean - it makes it a bit fiddly getting the blade down the middle but the tape holds everything together beautifully, so it is just like cutting a tube. I posted a description of this (with piccies) on my blog months ago...I don't know if any of this helps!! http://solunarsilverstudio.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/
Barbara:)

bustagasket
26-07-2009, 12:56 PM
I love your chains!! I can only hope that i end up being able to make somethig so lovely in the years that come.

I love the toggle on the end of the featured chain, and i just wondered whether that had been "fused" as i heard this term used at the college by someone who has been going a long time, but its not something i have been introduced to yet. I know i am impatient to learn everything, but my thirst is great :-s

julie
26-07-2009, 01:20 PM
i use half hard & hard for ear wires ... lovely bracelet & toggle :D

Solunar Silver Studio
26-07-2009, 06:25 PM
Thanks for your lovely comments. I only use fine silver in my chains because I hate soldering and fine silver is so pure that it fuses to itself without the need for flux and solder. It also doesn't get blackened with firescale so it doesn't need pickling.:D Fine silver is a bit weaker than sterling silver though, which is why I tend to twist a lot of my links, and this also gives me a lot of decorative potential! The toggle is a bit of a fiddle to make and is mainly twisted but I ball up the ends - again to improve the strength...and the ring is just twisted wire made into jumprings and then fused.
As I am self taught, with the help at the beginning of 'Silver Wire Fusing' by Liz Jones, I have had to make up a lot of the techniqes as I went along...but then I have always enjoyed experimenting and asking myself 'What would happen if I....', so I have had enormous fun!!...and at the end of the day that's what matters, isn't it?:)
Barbara

Milomade
26-07-2009, 06:51 PM
I'm thinking of getting either this:
Sterling Silver Round Wire 0.80mm Diameter Fully Hard, In 30 Gram Coils
Product Code: HSA 408

or this:
Sterling Silver Round Wire 0.8mm 30gm Half Hrd, 30 Gram Coils
Product Code: HSA 469

Not sure which is best for jump rings.

Also the soft wire is supplied in reels - what's the difference between a reel and a coil???

Solunar Silver Studio
26-07-2009, 07:18 PM
Also the soft wire is supplied in reels - what's the difference between a reel and a coil???

I have bought silver wire before that comes on a little black reel rather like the reels that coloured craft wire comes on. Perhaps the soft wire is wound on these to protect it and prevent kinks developing in the wire. The 1mm fine silver wire I get comes in a simple coil about 15cm across, held together with some of those plastic tie thingies and wrapped in a plastic bag...and it does tend to tangle a bit as you try to measure lengths of it but as it is fairly thick that doesn't matter so much. These are not so easy to store as the little black reels if space is an issue for you.....
Sorry I can't help you with the technical stuff!:o
Barbara

Di Sandland
27-07-2009, 04:05 AM
I'm thinking of getting either this:
Sterling Silver Round Wire 0.80mm Diameter Fully Hard, In 30 Gram Coils
Product Code: HSA 408

or this:
Sterling Silver Round Wire 0.8mm 30gm Half Hrd, 30 Gram Coils
Product Code: HSA 469

Not sure which is best for jump rings.

Also the soft wire is supplied in reels - what's the difference between a reel and a coil???

What Barbara said about the coils and reels.

As for the jump rings - I use half-hard. I tried fully hard and it was a bugger to manipulate! Mine have all been 'fit for purpose.' :)

Di x

mizgeorge
28-07-2009, 06:17 AM
I make literally thousands of jump rings, and as a simple rule I use half hard temper for anything made from 1.0 mm wire or less with an internal diameter of under 4mm (ie an aspect ratio of 4). Soft is fine for everything else, especially wrapping, and I wouldn't use anything else once I get over a gauge of 1.2mm.

I find Cookson's 'standard' (which is supposed to be soft) a bit harder than some other suppliers. It only takes a couple of minutes to anneal if necessary though :)

EmmaRose
28-07-2009, 04:09 PM
go for half hard, easy to soften, and will harden as you coil the jump rings. Hard might be too difficult to work with or become too brittle.
Em

caroleallen
28-07-2009, 05:24 PM
I use the masking tape method too - I'd never heard of anyone else doing that.
It does make life a lot easier, though I cut from the outside. It also means the rings don't drop off the end of the sawblade.

mizgeorge
28-07-2009, 05:31 PM
Sorry, just spotted a couple of questions I'd missed!

The 30g reel (I guess the weight is pretty close to a troy oz) are just that. 30g of wire on a spool. Except a lot of the time it's not on a spool, just coiled in a bag ;)

If you're struggling with jump rings collapsing, try using a bamboo knitting needle or skewer as a mandrel and just leave it in place as you cut. Much easier than picking tape off the finished rings!

julie
28-07-2009, 05:38 PM
I use the masking tape method too, it was the way i was taught , doing it another way would feel >:) to me ...

palace
24-02-2010, 09:46 PM
Resurrecting this old thread because I'm seemingly incapable of sawing coils of jump rings without bending the whole lot. I've practised on cheapo wire, and I'm getting nowhere. I've tried masking tape, and I've tried sawing from the inside and the outside. Every tutorial I read just kind of says 'and then saw the coil', with no indication of how to troubleshoot if it's all going horribly wrong. :)

Will using half-hard wire really help? Because at the moment, I'm on the point of just deciding never to make my own jump rings ever again ever as long as I live ever...

MuranoSilver
24-02-2010, 09:48 PM
How are they bending? Have you tried only making short lengths of coil so you can get a good grip on them as you saw through?
nic x

Milomade
24-02-2010, 09:55 PM
One thing I did when I started was to get a lod of knitting needles from charity shops in all sorts of sizes and then use these to make the coils - I would then saw the coil when it was still on the knitting needle - It's easier if you heat the knitting needle and bend it and tehn you can cut on the bend/corner. can also do this with nails, but I couldn't get my hands on a few nails in different sizes without having to buy bags of 50 etc, so I resorted to knitting needles.

palace
24-02-2010, 11:31 PM
How are they bending? Have you tried only making short lengths of coil so you can get a good grip on them as you saw through?
nic x

Hmm, not sure how to describe. They're just going wildly out of shape! I do think that not being able to fathom how to get a good grip on the coil is a big part of the problem.

Thanks for the advice, you guys - I'll try both short coils and leaving them wrapped around the knitting needles and see how it goes. (not going to do it right now, though - much too late at night - probably cut my hands to ribbons!)

Cheers.

mizgeorge
25-02-2010, 07:35 AM
If they're getting very misshapen, that would suggest that either the mandrel is too large for the gauge of wire, or you're not winding tightly enough. Are you winding by hand or using a drill?

snow_imp
25-02-2010, 09:00 AM
Hmm, not sure how to describe. They're just going wildly out of shape! I do think that not being able to fathom how to get a good grip on the coil is a big part of the problem.

Thanks for the advice, you guys - I'll try both short coils and leaving them wrapped around the knitting needles and see how it goes. (not going to do it right now, though - much too late at night - probably cut my hands to ribbons!)

Cheers.

I'm glad I'm not the only one having this problem - and neither are you.

Gripping the wire is my problem too - I'm afraid my fingers will get in the way of the saw which I have done a few times - but the blood quickly stopped :)

I tried sawing in one direction and found that I was pulling the last ring away from the coil - which of course really messes it up - is that what you were doing? I now know I need to saw pushing against the coil instead - but that's when I'm afraid of my fingers getting in the way.

But I plan to have another go at the weekend. I'm hoping that practice makes perfect. I may try the sawing while the coil is on the mandrel too.

palace
25-02-2010, 10:44 AM
I think maybe I've got a combination of problems, then!

I'm winding by hand - it's quite probable that I'm not doing it tightly enough. I do have a drill, and I don't know why it never occurred to me to use it (but my jewellery teacher taught us doing it by hand!). Regarding the ratio of mandrel to gauge, is there some kind of formula you can point me to? But tbh, it happens when I'm making smallish rings (~4mm) with not-that thin wire (0.8 or 1mm), so is it more likely that I'm not winding tightly enough, do you think?

snow_imp - when you say 'pushing against the coil', do you mean that you reverse the saw blade so that it cuts on the up-stroke? Or something else? I'm a bit dozy today.. :)

Thanks again for the pointers - I'm very grateful.

snow_imp
26-02-2010, 07:11 AM
I mean that holding the coil in my left hand, the saw in the right and the saw teeth pointing down I will be sawing on the outside of the top of the coil while pushing gently against the rest of the coil that will be in my left hand - at least, that's what I plan to try and see how it goes.

Jayne
26-02-2010, 07:58 AM
I always think this is a tricksy thing to do - depending on the gauge of wire & the diameter of the rings, it can be pretty straightforward or a real bummer! For your first time why not try using some hench wire - say 1.5mm+ - and a reasonably sized ring that will help to give the coil some stability. Imagine that the thumb and forefinger that will hold the coil steady have the strength of steel and the precision of fine tweezers and accept that your thumb nail is a useful tool that will guide the path of your blade (mine is permanently gouged lol).
I think that once you've done it once and know you can do it, it'll be ok.
J x

snow_imp
26-02-2010, 03:09 PM
I don't mind the idea of a gouged nail - it was the blood that flowed last time that was worrying :)