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barclaybear
24-07-2009, 11:08 AM
Hi All,
I have just tried my hand at pickling for the first time and managed to get myself into a bit of a pickle with it (arf arf), so need a bit of a hand getting straight ...

I'm using "Vitex" Safety Pickle Salts from Cooksons. They came with two pages of safety instructions, but the only instructions on how actually to use the things was on the sticker on the side of the pot where it said "Use 50 grams per litre at 30-80C". I carefully weighed out 50 grams and put it in a (previously washed and cleaned with bicarb) 1 litre plastic bottle which I then filled to the top with warm water.

I used a quite old small electric slow cooker (never used for food) which was a sort of metal tin that rests over a sort of hotplate affair. It just had a little dial, with 0 - 5 on the front. I had no idea how to get it to 30 - 80 C so I whacked it at 3 and hoped for the best.

I put my pieces in (using copper tweezers as I gather steel tweezers can make it all go pink) and let it bubble away there for an hour. When I took it out however, all my bits had gone sort of a dull red tarnished colour. I subsequently barrelled them for 4 hours, but they're still dull redsville USA.

My questions are :
1. What have I done wrong?
2. Having gone wrong can it be fixed or are these pieces lost to me now?
3. Should a pickle be at a hot enough temperature to bubble or is that too hot? I have no real concept of how hot 30-80C is.
4. How long should I leave items in the pickle?

All advice gratefully received.
:)

PS Am loving this forum .... where would I be without you guys??

myke
24-07-2009, 11:18 AM
hi I think the broblem might be the metal tin Try finding a slowcooker with ciramic pot thats what I use

EmmaRose
24-07-2009, 11:20 AM
If the pickle is directly in the metal container then that is your problem, you need glass or ceramic (ie non reactive). sounds like your piece has been plated, similar to if you had put steel in there!
to get it off, not sure, acid or a alot of sandpapering I'd imagine!
E

EmmaRose
24-07-2009, 11:23 AM
Ps bubbling too hot- that means it is boiling...ie 100 degrees. Won't hurt the piece, but fumes probably not very nice lol!
colder won't hurt, just works much slower! exact temp not too important. I use cheap slow cooker from argos (ceramic insert). fill with boiling water for kettle if in a hurry! then put it on 2 (it has one two and auto lol!), works great.
Em

EmmaRose
24-07-2009, 11:23 AM
oh- that is with lid on too! slows evaporation, keeps heat on. lid is glass
E

julie
24-07-2009, 11:31 AM
could be pickle contamination ??? The easiest way to sort this problem out is to make fresh pickle, and then anneal your piece followed by a good pickling i use a cheap slow cooker on the lowest setting not sure boiling it is a good idea :eek:

ps_bond
24-07-2009, 11:43 AM
Sounds like plating from the description of your pot.

Check this - http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/pickling-notes.htm
The last paragraph suggests 50/50 hydrogen peroxide and pickle to remove copper flashing. Bog standard 3% or so is plenty.

Another vote for the Argos cheap slow cooker.

MuranoSilver
24-07-2009, 12:11 PM
And if you but a cheap crock pot with a glass and metal lid, make sure that you either elephant tape the metal or remove it from the lid (or it can eventually corrode and drop bits of metal into your nice clean solution)
Nic x

EmmaRose
24-07-2009, 12:28 PM
oh Nic, never thought of that! thanks! (though it hasn't happened yet!!)

Atelier Ava
24-07-2009, 01:35 PM
I buy my slow cookers from car boot sales the best ones are white and only use the warm setting. Always have a window open when its on.
Paula

The Bijou Dragon
24-07-2009, 03:16 PM
And if you but a cheap crock pot with a glass and metal lid, make sure that you either elephant tape the metal or remove it from the lid (or it can eventually corrode and drop bits of metal into your nice clean solution)
Nic x

WOAH! Thanks for that, mine has a metal rim... off to B&Q for me then as the OH actually doesn't have any gaffer tape (which has surprised me as he has everything else lol)

barclaybear
24-07-2009, 05:13 PM
OK ... sounds like I need to get a ceramic slow cooker instead of this metal one.

Once I do get a ceramic or glass one, can I re-use the pickling solution or do I have to make it up fresh each time?

Ta oods.

Solunar Silver Studio
24-07-2009, 05:16 PM
You want cheap? As I don't do much with sterling I didn't want to spend a lot for a pickle pot I only use a couple of times a year...my solution...I'm using a novelty 'Girls Night In' chocolate fondu set which is powered by tea light candles...I have swapped what was a ceramic bowl in the top for a tiny 'one person' ceramic casserole pot with lid that I found in Poundland (the chain that sells everything for a pound) - amazingly it is a perfect fit!! It all works too! It needs 4 candles to get it up towards boiling and then I extinguish a couple to keep it chugging along. Beat that for cheap!! Not much good if you use it every day but it suits my needs!:D
Barbara

MuranoSilver
24-07-2009, 05:17 PM
I'd make up a new batch, boiling it in a metal pot might have contminated it (cheap enough to replace).
Nic x

Charlotte
24-07-2009, 08:16 PM
Am I the only mug who bought a proper mini pickle bath because I didn't hear about the slow cooker option until a few months after I bought mine?:o:eek: Imagine all the tools I could have bought instead!

I used to hate it at uni when people didn't use the brass tweezers and copper plated everyone's work, all had to be sanded off.

Try not to inhale too much of it or get it on your hands... wash your work after pickling.... don't like to be obvious, but its not the friendliest of solutions;)

Milomade
24-07-2009, 10:10 PM
I bought a baby bottle warmer from Lidl for £6.99 - it's nice and compact for my tiny space and has varying heat settings. I use a plastic container to put my pickle solution in and that pops into the bottle warmer nicely. Works for me at the moment as I'm only working on tiny items. We do havea slow cooker somewhere, but it's gone missing - must have got lost somewhere when we moved here a year ago as I've been looking for it for about 6 months and had no luck.

BS_YB
04-08-2009, 02:10 PM
For the last ten+ years I have used diluted sulphuric acid for gold and silver pieces ( I am a Jobber /Repairer ) and keep it in a pyrex dish and not warmed either. works quick every time.

bustagasket
04-08-2009, 03:45 PM
I bought one from tescos for my pickle - under a tenner for it about a fortnight ago. But i will certainly keep an eye on the metal edged glass lid now that nic has pointed it out to me!

Ominicci
06-08-2009, 03:33 PM
Like Barbara I use a little one person pyrex casserole dish and it sits nicely on a single round metal plate warmer, warmed by a tea light. Got the idea from our tutor who used same set up for classes in the local school. As I don't do huge quantities most things sit in it really well. I do my soldering in the kitchen on soldering mat & block on a thick 2ft square piece of chip board on top of the hob. I can then put the extractor on to get rid of the pickle fumes. I find that if I don't put the extractor on my mucous membranes (inside my nose) dry out - so there's definitely chemicals in that there pickle!

Pickle still works if cold but you have to leave it in for several hours rather than minutes. There are also 'recipes' for organic pickle on the internet that are non hazardous - mostly using citric powder (?) if I remember correctly.

nikki_d72
25-08-2009, 12:48 PM
For the last ten+ years I have used diluted sulphuric acid for gold and silver pieces ( I am a Jobber /Repairer ) and keep it in a pyrex dish and not warmed either. works quick every time.

Ditto. I was a jobber too, used to quench the pieces straight into cold pickle in a glass bowl, then rinse and ultrasonic. Worked a treat. Just don't put your face near the bowl when quenching!

You absolutely should not let your pickle boil, as the fumes are really quite serious, can damage your lungs. I used to use a stainless steel pot on the stove but forgot about it a couple of times and the room filled up really badly with sulphuric fumes, wasn't nice. The pieces went pink too but the re-heating and quenching worked. You may have burnished the copper onto the surface with barrelling, but hopefully the previous comment about peroxide will work if re heating doesn't.

Remember your high school chemistry when making acid pickle - Always add acid to water, NEVER the other way round. Wear protective gloves and goggles and about 10% acid to water should be sufficient. Top up with clean water every now and then as it will evaporate off.

Hope it all works, there's nothing worse than having to re-emery an entire piece to remove plating...

Nikki

The Dragon
25-08-2009, 11:30 PM
Thank you Su for supporting my employer! lol

I have to say I bought my slow cooker from Tesco too, but only because staff discount and end of line clearance make it a bargin. I'm going to have a little go at soldering on Sunday and will test the 'pickle' out then but I'll be using Citric Acid - just hope I get the ratio right!


:confused::confused:

Boo
26-08-2009, 05:37 AM
I use citric acid and make a 10% solution with it. I don't even bother with a heated pot, I just keep it in a Pyrex dish which has a plastic seal lid and when I need it, take the lid off and pop it in the microwave for about 40 seconds until it's hot, drop my pieces in it and leave them for a bit. If there are really stubborn marks, I take the pieces out and wipe them down and re-heat the solution and give them a second dunking.

I keep two batches now, one for copper and one for silver. To get a really bright finish on copper, if I'm not in a hurry, I leave it in the solution until it's cold and just leave it overnight.

I'd probably not do it this way with different chemicals, but for the small batches I do, it works perfectly well - because I do it in the kitchen, I'm happier to use something inoccuous like citric acid.

bob flemming
27-08-2009, 04:14 AM
I use a glass pyrex dish with a lid, and place it over an oil burner with a tea light. Works perfectly well!

Boo
27-08-2009, 10:46 AM
I have various dinner table warmers, oil burners and fondus with tealights in, so I'm going to have to try this to keep mine warm, might help it along nicely - if I nuke it first the burners should keep it warm.

Thanks for the tips, I'd never given it a thought.

caroleallen
27-08-2009, 07:15 PM
Occasionally when I forget to remove binding wire from a piece I've had the silver turn pink in the pickle. It's very easy to remove it with a radial brush on a pendant drill or a Dremel.

Emerald
27-08-2009, 10:13 PM
i to use a small pyrex dish sat on a tripod and warm it up with a meths burner but cold can work just as well especly if the pickle is new.

Emeral;)d

Lindyloo
28-08-2009, 09:53 PM
In response to your comment about pickling copper, Boo, I wondered if you have some way of keeping copper shiny, as it tends to tarnish so quickly.

mizgeorge
29-08-2009, 08:30 AM
copper is easily brightened back up with lemon juice and salt - but be careful not to leave it too long or it will go too 'pink'. I also discovered recently (and by accident) that popping it in an ultrasonic cleaner, even a cheap little one, brings up the original new penny shine perfectly!

I actually prefer my copper to have darkened down a bit, but you can help slow it down with a coat of microcrystalline wax, such as Renaissance.

Di Sandland
29-08-2009, 10:43 AM
George, would a coating of Renaissance stop the dreaded green neck/bracelet/adorned body part?

mizgeorge
29-08-2009, 11:07 AM
It's funny Di, not everyone gets it. It only seems to happen if the piece doesn't move enough and stays in contact with the same place for too long at a time.

I think the wax does help a bit - I experimented on DH (as you do), who wears a copper bracelet, and it certainly made a difference, but then he doesn't mark badly to start with. If you want to try some, I've got a huge pot I could decant a bit from for you!

Di Sandland
29-08-2009, 12:01 PM
Thanks George that's really kind but I've got loads of Renaissance too from the wood days (a little goes a very long way, eh?).

I'll give it a go (and let you know)

Lindyloo
29-08-2009, 08:54 PM
Thanks for that George. It takes me a while to reply these days, as I actually forget where I have posted my questions. So much so, that I have started a word file to collect all the snippets of useful info, as finding them again in the future is going to be impossible, as the threads are growing too fast for me to keep up. #-o

Bigwol
04-09-2009, 01:35 AM
Put a pyrex jug inside the slow cooker - then put your pickle in that

Fill the slow cooker's crockery pot with water until the pyrex jug just floats in it- like a bain-marie.

Set the Slow Cooker to Low.

Because the Pyrex jug is now in a water bath, it can't get above 100 deg C, and being Glass there won't be any nasty interactions with the metal you are trying to pickle

Cheers

Dave

MuranoSilver
04-09-2009, 09:08 AM
Great tip :Y: