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abyjem
26-11-2009, 03:58 PM
Hi all,
I have trawled through all the posts relating to soldering and in theory, I should be able to do it.

In fact, I have managed a few joins with great success, using both the paste and the strip solder. But, my problem is, I cant do it now and I'm tearing my hair out because I thought I'd got it sussed

My torch is fully gassed so no loss of pressure

I've just tried about 9 or 10 different trial go's - I am getting the following happening:

the flux bubbles up, the sterling piece goes black but the solder strip is still solid.

the sterling piece glows red, the flux bubbles and the solder strip goes black, but not stuck.

or, the solder strip balls up into a blob and sits on top of the work,

I've tried getting closer, further away and all variations in between with the flame but still no luck.

With the paste, I am getting it form into a solid dark crumbly lump or bubble and then disappear!

My only thought is maybe my work isnt clean enough ?? if this is the case, how is the best way to clean it ready for soldering please??

Please can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong - I am just about to throw the whole lot through the window:(|:(|:'(

Emerald
26-11-2009, 04:59 PM
lol dont throw just yet Faith, what are you tring to solder and which solder are you using?

mizgeorge
26-11-2009, 05:06 PM
Only just seen this Faith - I've answered in the other place - but you'll get good advice here!

abyjem
26-11-2009, 05:21 PM
Thanks George - :X

Emerald, I'm using easy both solder strip and syringe paste

I'm eventually needing to solder an artclay silver top onto a sterling silver ring band. But I dare not attempt that until I know I've got the soldering right

From what I can gather, it seems I'm getting the actual joint hot too quickly and the bottom piece of work needs to be hot first.

Chatters
26-11-2009, 05:29 PM
Hi Faith!

Many thanks for the positive comments on my recent work, everyone is so encouraging!

I had the same problem and I find that the more you solder it the worse the problem gets. I am a newby at this but this is what I have found works. With the paste you dont need to flux as it already contains it (so they say). Clean both peices with a fine grade paper all over where it is to be soldered, if using the solder strip sand that as well both sides, make sure that both pieces fit flush and dont touch it with your fingers - use tweezers, heat the surrounding areas circling the flame then focus in on the paste but keep circling until it flows. With the strip, I heat up the wire first once the flux blubbles, glows slightly red then I add the solder strip with tweezers and keep circling the flame. Not sure if this is the correct way of doing it but it works for me.

If the strip stays red and does not move I get the pick and move it over the area. I tend to find that this happens if I am in a hurry and have not cleaned it properly. I use the easy solder though.

Hope it helps
Angie

abyjem
26-11-2009, 06:13 PM
Hi Angie

Thanks for your help and tips - I am starting to think that my problems have been mainly to do with cleaning the pieces. I guess throwing them on the floor and stamping on them doesnt exactly help! lol

I've justbeen watching some Andrew Berry vids on Youtube - now if he just lived near me....

I feel a bit more relaxed now and hopefulkly will be able to give it another go in a while.

I'll let you kinow how it goes.

Thanks again

Faith

PS - your work is totally fab!!

Chatters
26-11-2009, 06:33 PM
Hi Faith

Have just read that you trying to solder Art Clay to silver ring, from what my silver clay book said you should use the oil paste. Nics may be the best person to clarify this, I have used it and it stinks but amazing stuff. The only draw back with that is that you have to wait until it is bone dry before firing it.

Zamauk.com says - Oil Paste type: Art Clay Oil Paste is an oil-based paste and it is formulated to act as a bond between pure silver findings, or between two fired pieces. It comes in two separately sealed jars. One has 10gm of the very thick paste, the other contains a thinner that is used to keep the paste at working consistency. Both jars must be kept tightly capped. Silver findings also can be attached to the piece by Oil Paste, and then re fired for adhesion. Fires at 800°C/1472°F for 30 minutes, or 850°C/1562°F for 10 minutes.

I have just amazed myself that I could help others from what I have learnt, never cease to amaze myself!:D

Take care
Angie

abyjem
26-11-2009, 06:40 PM
Hi Angie,

I think this may be the answer - problem is that I dont have a kiln and I believe the oil paste has to be kiln fired.

I may just have to start again and do both parts with PMC and stick them together pre-firing - that way I can torch the whole thing in one go,

why did I say I'd make this damn ring???

Chatters
26-11-2009, 07:08 PM
Oh Faith my heart goes out to you!

I dont have a kiln, I torch fired mine! There is hope yet!

Angie

abyjem
26-11-2009, 07:16 PM
bless you Angie, these things are all part of the learning curve I guess lol
I am going to have another bash tomorrow - with a fresh mind. If it all goes pear-shaped I'll just start from scratch and hopefully still be able to deliver the ring on Sunday, as promised!

Just been having another look at your lovely pieces - given me a few ideas - not copy of course, but new things for me to try with the PMC.

Chatters
26-11-2009, 07:25 PM
I have gone slightly away from PMC, but still have some for 'just in case'. Faith, I dont mind you using them to give you ideas, have you got any photos to share so maybe I can inspire myself with some of your ideas? If I can help in anyway with any other ideas please just shout. Send me a PM anytime.

Angie

abyjem
26-11-2009, 07:32 PM
Thanks Angie, I'd be ashamed to post any pics of my stuff - its pants in comparison! but, I am slowly getting more adventurous

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/welliebird/pendant002.jpg

this was my first (and only) attempt at stone setting to date! I doubt it would inspire anyone!

Chatters
26-11-2009, 07:43 PM
That is lovely! You are like me, always think your work is not that good until someone else sees it. How long have you been making PMC jewellery? I have only been making stuff since early September, but I am lucky I have been making sugar paste flowers for about 20 years so have that on my side with finishes etc. I look at the stuff that I made in the beginning and what I made last week and I can see a difference. Experimenting can be costly but as the others say on the forum they can always be used as pressies. I get great joy out of making stuff and am glad that I am not the only one that has had troubles in doing things. Andrews videos on YouTube are amazing, have a look at his website as well. I have learnt so much just watching and reading stuff on the web.

Keep at it as I will be also!

Angie

abyjem
26-11-2009, 07:51 PM
Thanks Angie, I've got a long way to go - I think I started with PMC about 4 or 5 months ago but of course, due to the expense of it, have only made a few bits. Mistakes can be costly but I think that its mistakes which teach me most.

I really love working with silver and if I can master this soldering lark, I would like to be more creative. All I need is time, money, experience and, more money! lol

MuranoSilver
26-11-2009, 11:02 PM
If you haven't got a kiln, making the band in sterling and then soldering the fine silver as a topper is a great way to go.
Torch fired silver clay is easy to underfire and this results in a band that would break in normal wear and tear.
(For maximum strength I fire rings silver clay ring bands at about 900 for up to 2 hours ;))
Sterling band or fine silver as a ring liner solves this problem nicely :)

Here's some PMC ring making tips (http://pmctips.blogspot.com/2009/03/making-art-clay-silver-pmc-rings-i-make.html)
Here's some sterling to silver clay soldering tips (http://pmctips.blogspot.com/2009/08/soldering-pmc-or-art-clay-silver-cuff.html)(for cufflinks but info is transferrable).

How thick is the wire you're soldering for your ring band?
Is it flat wire, round or a d shape?
nic x

Emerald
26-11-2009, 11:25 PM
that is not pants at all well done, i have never fired a stone in PMC is the bail PMC aswell that looks really neat :Y:

abyjem
27-11-2009, 09:38 AM
Hi Nic,

Thanks for your interest. The idea of making the band from sterling was for strength - its for a customer so I dont want it to break on her! I am seriously thinking a kiln is the way to go but its a big expense and I need to be sure I'm going to a) stick at it and b) be any good at it - lol

The sterling band is D shape wire 3.20 x 1.60

I've looked into the fine silver ring liners but they dont seem to come in all sizes.

I've just looked at your soldering tips and saved it to my pc - I am sure to need to come back to it again! I am hoping that my problem has been one of sloppy cleaning - which is easily remediable. I'm going to give it another go this morning, now I am feeling a bit less stressed - I'll post on how I get on.

Emerald - you are very kind - no the bail is a st. bought one but I do like the pendant and I've kept it myself. Good piece for comparison for when (she says hopefully) I get really good ;)

Rocksforfrocks
27-11-2009, 10:00 AM
Hi Nic I wish id read your soldering tutorial before i tried soldering a pmc ring last night, one worked one didnt, but I'll go back and try again!

MuranoSilver
27-11-2009, 10:37 AM
I use D shape wire a lot - I find it easier to ignore getting it into a ring shape and concentrate on lining the edge up for a nice tight join.
(If needed you can saw through the join which makes it line up)

Once there are no gaps and I know it's tight I pop a good blob of paste solder on the inside of the ring and heat the whole thing to warm the metal before moving the heat to the front of the join.

The solder flows through to the heat and as soon as you see the silver solder on the front you take the heat away. Once it's pickled and cleaned I bash it to round on a ring mandrel.

Nic x

tjaysilver
03-02-2010, 06:45 PM
Hi Abyjem

Your piece does need to be really clean,pickling it and then cleaning it with pumice powder making sure not to touch the area you have cleaned with your fingers,use tweezers to hold it or pick it up with clean a clean rag/tissue. Apply flux, not too much and then place the solder onto the required area again you do not need alot of this it is surprising how a little bit works. Heat the required piece trying not to direct the torch onto the solder itself you need to get the metal around the solder hot this then causes the solder to melt, once it does remove the heat straight away.....you don't want it to melt!
Hope this helps.

tjaysilver
03-02-2010, 06:49 PM
Thanks Angie, I'd be ashamed to post any pics of my stuff - its pants in comparison! but, I am slowly getting more adventurous

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/welliebird/pendant002.jpg

this was my first (and only) attempt at stone setting to date! I doubt it would inspire anyone!

I think your piece is great don't what ever you do give up, you will always be criticalof your own work.