A soldering question

[Filament]

I need to solder 8 silver tubes cut and shaped to fit, to the outside of a silver band. I had problems last night holding them in place. I tried to use wire, but it proved to difficult to align them all up and then tighten the wire. They were moving all over the place and I need to be really accurate.

I wonder if I loctite glue them in place and then wire them, would the glue prove a problem when I come to solder? Or would it burn off? Would it cause a problem of the solder running?

I could sand around the areas to be soldered to remove as much of the excess glue as possible and then borax the areas to be soldered.

Just an idea. I thought I would put the question you all you experts before I try it on Saturday.

Thanks in advance

[Solunar Silver Studio]

I don't know much about soldering but I can't see the super glue working.... Doesn't everything have to be super clean to help the solder to flow? I am not a great fan of chemicals and I can't imagine loctite fumes at soldering temperature being very good for you either!!

I have always found that borax flux tends to glue things down pretty well anyway - if you hold things in place with tweezers while playing the flame on it to drive off the water - and that, of course, actually helps the solder to flow! I've no idea if there are any real techniques for this so I shall watch and learn along with you!!:)

I'm sure you will get loads of answers from people who actually could solder in their sleep...so hang on a while!!:Y:

[Petal]

I think George mentioned using charcoal for soldering difficult pieces, by way of cutting a channel into the charcoal and placing the item to be soldered on it... I'm sure George will be along later to tell you how.

xxx

[mizgeorge]

I think if you're trying to solder that much in one go, you might need to consider investment. I've only done it a couple of times, so I'm no expert, but the results were pretty good.

Otherwise, could you see if you can break it down into stages?

[Filament]

Otherwise, could you see if you can break it down into stages?

I could do it in stages, but I was worried that if I do one stage at a time, the solder would flow away from the previous pieces I soldered. I do have some solder protection gel I could use. Is the solder protection gel effective?

[Filament]

I think George mentioned using charcoal for soldering difficult pieces, by way of cutting a channel into the charcoal and placing the item to be soldered on it... I'm sure George will be along later to tell you how.

xxx

That's an idea. Thanks.

Or is there some kind of heat resistant clay I could use to lay it onto to hold it in place?

[Emerald]

Hi, i would melt solder onto your tubes first perhaps do some medium and some easy and then go from there adding one by one or if you feel confident enough glue them in place with borax as Bee said and then blast the whole thing, how big is the whole piece, perhaps a photo might help us

[Filament]

I think if you're trying to solder that much in one go, you might need to consider investment.

Just googled investment. Thats just the stuff I need. Thanks for that. I'll buy some today.

[Filament]

Hi, i would melt solder onto your tubes first perhaps do some medium and some easy and then go from there adding one by one or if you feel confident enough glue them in place with borax as Bee said and then blast the whole thing, how big is the whole piece, perhaps a photo might help us

Gluing with borax is an idea too. Thanks, I might try that first.

Here is an image to give an idea of the size:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/4119593056_29bd5e5505_m.jpg

[Emerald]

ah i thought they where standing up, i would melt solder on the each tube and then put them in place with small heat and tweezers and then heat all over, well thats the way i would do it anyway xx

[Filament]

I think if you're trying to solder that much in one go, you might need to consider investment.

I wonder if delft clay would work. If I made a bed of clay. press my pieces into the clay to make them steady, flux the pieces, lay my solder and heat.

[minnie]

You can use steel dressmaking pins pushed into the soldering block to hold things in place (not glass headed ones). I have successfully done this before.

[Filament]

You can use steel dressmaking pins pushed into the soldering block to hold things in place (not glass headed ones). I have successfully done this before.

Another good idea. Thanks. This is a cheap way of doing it.

[Jayne]

I have no experience with this technique, but I looked in the 'Madeleine Coles 2 in 1 jewellery manual' and she uses plaster of paris in the same way as investment.
Just a thought (?)
J x

[Filament]

I have no experience with this technique, but I looked in the 'Madeleine Coles 2 in 1 jewellery manual' and she uses plaster of paris in the same way as investment.
Just a thought (?)
J x

Does plaster of paris withstand high temperatures then? That could be an option if it does.

[Filament]

I have no experience with this technique, but I looked in the 'Madeleine Coles 2 in 1 jewellery manual' and she uses plaster of paris in the same way as investment.
Just a thought (?)
J x

I have that book at home. I'll have a read when I get back from work this evening. Thanks.

[Jayne]

I have that book at home. I'll have a read when I get back from work this evening. Thanks.

project 19 - filigree brooch - page 91
good luck :Y:
J x

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Does plaster of paris withstand high temperatures then? That could be an option if it does.

I used it to make moulds to slump glass into when I was at college. You do have to make sure it is TOTALLY dry though (or it tends to explode - although I would have thought that would be the same with investment powder) - which does take ages! We used to leave them on top of the massive kilns for a week!! It does tend to crumble a bit after going through the slumping process in the kiln but I'm sure it would take the heat of soldering OK. I'd wear safety specs though just in case bits fly off! :Y:

[Filament]

You can use steel dressmaking pins pushed into the soldering block to hold things in place (not glass headed ones). I have successfully done this before.

I tried it with the steel pins in the soldering block with great success. Thanks for the idea.

[ben b]

With that many tubes, you wont have enogh grades of silver solder to play with, plus silver gets hot overall anyway to take a solder properly, so the lines between using a hard med and soft solder become a bit blurry with silver, unlike gold.
Glue is a big no no, your only real option is to measure the O/D of the tubes, and get a drill that size, or just under (and a round file) and drill right through the ring, and use tight fitting holes and push the tubes right throug, slightly protruding inside, and then solder all at once as they will stay in place. Then use saw to sut off protrusions inside, and file flush.
with a hard solder, yo'ull never see the join, plus, with solder over run this is a better way to do this task, even with one tube than flush mounting on surface.
:hohoho:

[Carl Martin]

With that many tubes, you wont have enogh grades of silver solder to play with, plus silver gets hot overall anyway to take a solder properly, so the lines between using a hard med and soft solder become a bit blurry with silver, unlike gold.
Glue is a big no no, your only real option is to measure the O/D of the tubes, and get a drill that size, or just under (and a round file) and drill right through the ring, and use tight fitting holes and push the tubes right throug, slightly protruding inside, and then solder all at once as they will stay in place. Then use saw to sut off protrusions inside, and file flush.
with a hard solder, yo'ull never see the join, plus, with solder over run this is a better way to do this task, even with one tube than flush mounting on surface.
:hohoho:

Thats assuming of course she wants 8 visible holes on the inside.

[minnie]

Really glad you succeeded with the pins. If you have work that is difficult to secure with binding wire they are a good option.

Just to reiterate for others.To hold tricky work in place support it by pushing dressmaking pins into a soldering block to support the work.

Quicker and a lot safer than plaster etc as stated before it must be completely dry and can be dangerous.

[Filament]

With that many tubes, you wont have enogh grades of silver solder to play with, plus silver gets hot overall anyway to take a solder properly, so the lines between using a hard med and soft solder become a bit blurry with silver, unlike gold.
Glue is a big no no, your only real option is to measure the O/D of the tubes, and get a drill that size, or just under (and a round file) and drill right through the ring, and use tight fitting holes and push the tubes right throug, slightly protruding inside, and then solder all at once as they will stay in place. Then use saw to sut off protrusions inside, and file flush.
with a hard solder, yo'ull never see the join, plus, with solder over run this is a better way to do this task, even with one tube than flush mounting on surface.
:hohoho:

I held it all in place with steel pins and soldered it all in one go. It worked with great success.

Here is a photo of where I am with it so far:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2584/4121843083_4f71101272_m.jpg

[minnie]

Hi
I am so glad you took my tip of using pins.

The piece looks fabulous.

I think there are a lot of myths about soldering using the grades of solder etc. I only ever use hard solder in all my work.

The trick is in the preperation and how you protect pieces that don't need heating etc.

1st myth all the work needs heating, NO.

[Carl Martin]

Hi
I am so glad you took my tip of using pins.

The piece looks fabulous.

I think there are a lot of myths about soldering using the grades of solder etc. I only ever use hard solder in all my work.

The trick is in the preperation and how you protect pieces that don't need heating etc.

1st myth all the work needs heating, NO.


Absolutely spot on Christine.
:Y:

[minnie]

Thanks Carl

Soldering is about control not flooding everything with heat etc. As I mentioned I only use hard solder,it is not through any lazy practice etc but there is no need to grade down if you cut the pallions correctly and use the heat and flux to each join and consider the previous solder join and work around it.

I have made .6mm tiny rings and joined them with hard solder.

The construction of a large piece as in the discussion should present no problem in soldering.

[swageblock]

Probably too late.
I would drill/burr a recess [about 0.5 mm diameter larger than the tube] on the ring to mark each position.The one at a time melt solder into each recess and place the tube as the solder melts.If you quench between each soldering and smear the completed ones with grease/tripoli/tippex the solder wont melt and the recess will kee all in position.
Tony

[Emerald]

Thanks Carl

Soldering is about control not flooding everything with heat etc. As I mentioned I only use hard solder,it is not through any lazy practice etc but there is no need to grade down if you cut the pallions correctly and use the heat and flux to each join and consider the previous solder join and work around it.

I have made .6mm tiny rings and joined them with hard solder.

The construction of a large piece as in the discussion should present no problem in soldering.

umm sorry but i dont think i agree !