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caroleallen
18-11-2009, 05:37 PM
I know we all love lampies but does the general public see the difference between beautiful handmade beads and mass-produced ones?

I have a friend who makes them but finds they don't sell that well compared to her silver stuff. I also had an interesting chat with a stallholder at the NEC who said sales were disappoining. I often find that the more cutting edge stuff doesn't sell as well as the run of the silver stuff. Other artists and crafts people appreciate them but generally people go for the safe option.

I'd be happy to be contradicted if I'm wrong.

Di Sandland
18-11-2009, 05:41 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, Carole, because on my to do list is to learn lampworking. Not to sell the beads but to use for myself.

I strongly suspect that the appeal of lampies is greatest in communities 'in the know,' if that makes sense?

caroleallen
18-11-2009, 07:05 PM
It appears we may be right Di.

kymbi
18-11-2009, 07:28 PM
I use handmade lampwork beads quite a lot in my jewellery, mixing it with sterling silver and gemstone beads. As part of the selling process I have small signs to indicate the jewellery is made with handmade beads and I explain to the customers that the designs are either one-off pieces or limited editions and where I have the details, attribute the maker on the info card that comes with the piece.

I've found mixed responses to the lampwork - some people really appreciate the work that goes into the beads, others appreciate that they are getting unique jewellery and then there are those that think it could be cheaper like the stall along the way that is flogging snide-pandora-alikes from China that will smash at the first impact. I've learnt to turn a blind eye to the latter category of passer-by - they wouldn't be customers of mine and would not buy any of my designs as they look for cheap and cheerful jewellery, not made with sterling silver.

The mix of my stock for sale is about 20% with lampies, about 20% with silver pendants/earrings and the remainder are semi-precious stones mixed with sterling silver. The pieces with semi-precious beads sell the best but on an average weekend I will usually sell a few pieces made with lampwork - I find that bracelets and earrings sell better than necklaces but I think this is down to price.

Sorry to waffle ... I'll go and put the soap box away now :">

caroleallen
18-11-2009, 07:51 PM
That's interesting Kym. Is the return on what you pay for them good?

mizgeorge
18-11-2009, 07:59 PM
I find my more 'upmarket' customers are very keen on artisan lampwork, but even they particularly like it mixed with gemstones (which I do a lot anyway). Simple pendants also seem to sell pretty well too - often to be used as gifts.

I make a lot of my own smaller lampwork beads, especially in single colours for earrings and spacers, but still buy far too many for my own good. Most of them are simply for my own collection though!

kymbi
18-11-2009, 08:16 PM
That's interesting Kym. Is the return on what you pay for them good?

Sometimes....it depends on what the beads are and how they are used. If I have spent £25-£30 on a few beads, then I will just use one of them as a focal in a bracelet or as a pendant as I've found I could not get the return back on a pair of earrings or a necklace. I now lean towards buying cheaper sets so I can get the returns - and save the nicer beads and focals for me...perks n'all that :)

Solunar Silver Studio
18-11-2009, 08:18 PM
I don't think many people give lampwork beads a second glance unless they have personally tried to keep a gob of molten glass on a mandrel - let alone tried to decorate it! I did have a go at college - the knobbly and wobbly evidence of this is in my profile album! - but decided it wasn't really for me. The bloke I went to college with was really smitten though and has been buying all the gear in the last 2 years. Since he got his oxycon he's been flying! Unfortunately, he has been really ill for the past 6 months - but I go to see him each week and we discuss all things beady and he shows me what he has made and sometimes how he has made them. Watching him add 50 or more dots of glass one on top of another, over and over, all round the bead, creating amazing concentric ring patterns and taking ages just for one bead makes you very respectful of what lampworkers create.

I am lucky enough to be able to pick up his waifs and strays...and his 'sh*t beads' as he calls them for peanuts! He might not be happy with them but I can see posibilities!!

Amazing as they are - I wouldn't be able to afford to buy sets - and I can understand how people who don't know the process behind making them just view them as bits of glass - with no real intrinsic value! But isn't that the same with all crafts? You hear people say - "You don't have to pay that for it - I could make you one!" - when looking at a piece you know has taken hours and hours to make using skills honed over a period of many years! People think all this stuff is easy - until they have a go.....!!

Lindyloo
18-11-2009, 08:29 PM
I know a lot of people on this forum don't buy jewellery, they just wear their own. So as a buyer of jewellery, I thought I might add my two cents worth (that's perhaps all it is worth, and I don't know if it will help or not).

I just wanted to point out that I didn't really know about lampworking until I joined this forum. Most of my own jewellery that I have made has been with gemstones.

I did know about pandora beads, which I have never liked because they don't do anything for me. But when I first heard about the lampwork beads, I was hooked. Do you think that there might just be that element of the public who just don't know about them, and so don't appreciate the skill involved in making them? You don't see them on the high street afterall. So perhaps the public need a little more time and education to appreciate them.

Personally, I always buy jewellery for how it looks. It's not about the cost, or necessarily the maker. So if a gemstone, or a bead takes my fancy, then that's why I buy it.

caroleallen
18-11-2009, 08:32 PM
I don't think many people give lampwork beads a second glance unless they have personally tried to keep a gob of molten glass on a mandrel - let alone tried to decorate it! I did have a go at college - the knobbly and wobbly evidence of this is in my profile album! - but decided it wasn't really for me. The bloke I went to college with was really smitten though and has been buying all the gear in the last 2 years. Since he got his oxycon he's been flying! Unfortunately, he has been really ill for the past 6 months - but I go to see him each week and we discuss all things beady and he shows me what he has made and sometimes how he has made them. Watching him add 50 or more dots of glass one on top of another, over and over, all round the bead, creating amazing concentric ring patterns and taking ages just for one bead makes you very respectful of what lampworkers create.

I am lucky enough to be able to pick up his waifs and strays...and his 'sh*t beads' as he calls them for peanuts! He might not be happy with them but I can see posibilities!!

Amazing as they are - I wouldn't be able to afford to buy sets - and I can understand how people who don't know the process behind making them just view them as bits of glass - with no real intrinsic value! But isn't that the same with all crafts? You hear people say - "You don't have to pay that for it - I could make you one!" - when looking at a piece you know has taken hours and hours to make using skills honed over a period of many years! People think all this stuff is easy - until they have a go.....!!

That's very true. People just don't appreciate art by and large. I couldn't believe the cr*p that people were actually buying at NEC. One stallholder said "I wouldn't have this stuff in my house but the public love it" That's why I'm going to try to do mainly shows where everything is handmade from now on.

caroleallen
18-11-2009, 08:39 PM
I know a lot of people on this forum don't buy jewellery, they just wear their own. So as a buyer of jewellery, I thought I might add my two cents worth (that's perhaps all it is worth, and I don't know if it will help or not).

I just wanted to point out that I didn't really know about lampworking until I joined this forum. Most of my own jewellery that I have made has been with gemstones.

I did know about pandora beads, which I have never liked because they don't do anything for me. But when I first heard about the lampwork beads, I was hooked. Do you think that there might just be that element of the public who just don't know about them, and so don't appreciate the skill involved in making them? You don't see them on the high street afterall. So perhaps the public need a little more time and education to appreciate them.

Personally, I always buy jewellery for how it looks. It's not about the cost, or necessarily the maker. So if a gemstone, or a bead takes my fancy, then that's why I buy it.

Maybe that's it Linda. The public need educating. They've seen far too many Pandora type beads to appreciate handmade ones.

minnie
18-11-2009, 08:42 PM
Hi

I absolutely love the lampwork. BUT galleries are aware of imported rubbish etc and see the customer looking for silver or silver with gemstone combination.
As with making an awareness between imported manufacured silver jewellery etc the profile of home artisan glass work needs to be appreciated.

Those of us that go to the gem/bead shows see lots of bad glass.

There needs to be a campaign of raising awareness of this skill!

Carl Martin
18-11-2009, 08:43 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, Carole, because on my to do list is to learn lampworking. Not to sell the beads but to use for myself.

I strongly suspect that the appeal of lampies is greatest in communities 'in the know,' if that makes sense?

I think you are right on what you have said. I did not appreciate the amount of work that goes into lampworking or the skills involved. My interest came about because of the silver cored beads, infact the one that really started it off was a platinum and 18ct core on a bead. Anyhow since then I have to say I have become well and truly hooked. I had a go at making them for the first time last weekend, (I organised a lampworking day and 16 turned up) . How skilled are some of those lampworkers I was truly amazed, but I think you are right in as much "appeal of lampies is greatest in communities 'in the know,' if that makes sense?" Bog standard Joe Public has no much idea how any of it is made or just how much skill , time and effort it takes to produce any handmade item.

Anyway I'm going back to my lampworking torch for another play .. :):)

geti-titanium
18-11-2009, 08:46 PM
Now that jewellery manufacture on any great scale is virtually extinct in the UK with vast amounts of tat coming in from the Far East, the public is slowly beginning to appreciate the quality and different choices available with handcrafted or bespoke items of jewellery and are prepared to pay for items that are well made and not being worn by every Tom, Dick and Harriet.

I'd never heard of lampwork before joining this forum either, but like Titaniums increase in popularity when it became more noticable in the high street shops, so will hand crafted beads become more the 'in thing' with the popularity of 'Pandora' style bracelets.

GETi has spoken! :)

Carl Martin
18-11-2009, 08:51 PM
Now that jewellery manufacture on any great scale is virtually extinct in the UK with vast amounts of tat coming in from the Far East, the public is slowly beginning to appreciate the quality and different choices available with handcrafted or bespoke items of jewellery and are prepared to pay for items that are well made and not being worn by every Tom, Dick and Harriet.

I'd never heard of lampwork before joining this forum either, but like Titaniums increase in popularity when it became more noticable in the high street shops, so will hand crafted beads become more the 'in thing' with the popularity of 'Pandora' style bracelets.

GETi has spoken! :)

Totally agrees with Geti.

caroleallen
18-11-2009, 08:59 PM
But will people be prepared to pay more for something that doesn't look very much different and how can they tell that it's hand made?

geti-titanium
18-11-2009, 09:07 PM
But will people be prepared to pay more for something that doesn't look very much different and how can they tell that it's hand made?

Yes and because you will tell them and sell the fact. You will always have the majority buying the Pandora style bracelets but then at the other end of the scale are the buyers who wouldn't touch it with a bargepole so what do they buy? Handcrafted quality one offs - that is the market you should aim for.

minnie
18-11-2009, 09:08 PM
But will people be prepared to pay more for something that doesn't look very much different and how can they tell that it's hand made?

I am afraid unless it is different then no they won't especially in this want something for nothing attitude time.

As I have mentioned before the only way is to raise the profile of the work or be different.

geti-titanium
18-11-2009, 09:09 PM
The internet has spawned the explosion of niche markets and there is a lot of money to be made from these.

geti-titanium
18-11-2009, 09:15 PM
As I have mentioned before the only way is to raise the profile of the work or be different.

definitely

minnie
18-11-2009, 09:17 PM
The internet has spawned the explosion of niche markets and there is a lot of money to be made from these.

As a newbie to site I still dare to disagree with this!! The real world exists before the internet.It is still an add to reality unless you have a system to breed money from eggshells or suchlike!!!!!!!!!!!!

Niche markets can only be made from an awareness of a product of quality, it is not a magic euphoria machine!!!

Di Sandland
18-11-2009, 09:21 PM
so, the crux of the matter is to raise awareness - how does one go about doing that. Is it a matter of advertorials in mags and newspapers, really good site optimisation - what?

caroleallen
18-11-2009, 09:25 PM
Wish I knew Di. I don't think advertorials work that well. Certainly the ones I've had didn't generate much business. Sadly, most people seem to be taken in by designer names. They'll buy a Pandora bracelet for twice the cost of a handmade one.

Di Sandland
18-11-2009, 09:28 PM
Wish I knew Di. I don't think advertorials work that well. Certainly the ones I've had didn't generate much business. Sadly, most people seem to be taken in by designer names. They'll buy a Pandora bracelet for twice the cost of a handmade one.

Same with most markets I'm afraid - in my 'real' work all publishers want to buy is 'celebrity' biographies! I hesitate to call them autobiographies cos most of them are ghost written.

Seems if you don't have a 'name' you're stuffed :(

minnie
18-11-2009, 09:29 PM
so, the crux of the matter is to raise awareness - how does one go about doing that. Is it a matter of advertorials in mags and newspapers, really good site optimisation - what?
Hello
I feel it is up to the makers to put the effort in to make people aware of this as a special art form. Raise the profile. On their websites etc.

For it to succeed imports etc their needs to be differenciation.

How about the lampwork people getting together to create an association even if all their work is different? Could really give the work credibility!!! I am a member of the ........

caroleallen
18-11-2009, 09:32 PM
I suppose we just have to keep doing more prestigious shows in order to raise our profile. I was amazed at how many people knew my name at Country Living and some people even came with a shopping list having seen my work before. Trouble is, those shows cost mega money and the profits are, therefore, less than lower priced local shows. You can't win really.

geti-titanium
18-11-2009, 09:33 PM
As a newbie to site I still dare to disagree with this!!

Oooh we like a challenge :)

I didn't make myself clear on that remark, yes there has always been niche markets but, before the internet, promoting them was very difficult. Now with the internet it is possible to 'make money from eggshells' (56,000 search results on google - somebody somewhere is making money from this niche market. When I was a kid I used to buy crushed eggshells to mix with groundbait for fishing.)

Competing with other websites for high ranking search terms on a particular market is difficult for most, but target the lesser known markets and search terms and so find your niche, can bring in big rewards.


Niche markets can only be made from an awareness of a product of quality

Niche markets exist whether the product is high or low quality

Di Sandland
18-11-2009, 09:35 PM
afaik, Christine, they already do. GBUK (http://www.gbuk.org/pages/) - although whether or not that is sufficiently directed towards the public or not I don't know as I'm only on hte very periphery (for that read building up the courage to buy the stuff and give it a go ;))

mizgeorge
18-11-2009, 09:36 PM
Hello

How about the lampwork people getting together to create an association even if all their work is different? Could really give the work credibility!!! I am a member of the ........


erm... How about

"I'm a member of GBUK" Glass Beadmakers UK (http://www.gbuk.org/pages/) (UK)

"I'm an SRA" Self Representing Artists: Specializing in Glass (http://www.self-representing-artist.com/) (international)

Both are trying hard to raise awareness, but it's like pushing water uphill with a rake most of the time.

Di Sandland
18-11-2009, 09:37 PM
PMSL - posted at same time George ;)

geti-titanium
18-11-2009, 09:52 PM
I truly don't believe that there is a huge amount of money to made from niche markets,

If you believe in what you are doing you'll find a way. 10 years ago hardly anybody had heard of Titanium and Black Zirconium rings. 10 years ago charm bracelets were a niche market. 10 years ago the internet itself could be classed as a niche market.

geti-titanium
18-11-2009, 09:57 PM
Mobile phones - they'll never catch on! :)

geti-titanium
18-11-2009, 09:58 PM
I hadn't even heard of Back Zirconium until recently Alan. LOL

I bet you know now though don'tcha? :)

minnie
18-11-2009, 10:11 PM
erm... How about

"I'm a member of GBUK" Glass Beadmakers UK (http://www.gbuk.org/pages/) (UK)

"I'm an SRA" Self Representing Artists: Specializing in Glass (http://www.self-representing-artist.com/) (international)

Both are trying hard to raise awareness, but it's like pushing water uphill with a rake most of the time.
Really sorry if I have upset you but only meant to help!! Raising awareness is the only way.

caroleallen
18-11-2009, 10:14 PM
I don't think anyone's upset. It's good to be able to say what we think. :X

mizgeorge
18-11-2009, 10:19 PM
I'm not upset in the slightest Christine. I'm more worried at how little we're achieving if people even within our own industry don't know we're there!

geti-titanium
18-11-2009, 10:30 PM
I'm upset! oooh! 'ang on - no I'm not - it's passed - carry on :merryxmas:

Lindyloo
18-11-2009, 10:32 PM
Shows like Country Living must help. It's a big name show, so perhaps the lampworkers should come up with a promotion they can all use in common.

Carl Martin
18-11-2009, 11:36 PM
There is the problem of awareness for any handcrafted item in this country. Unfortunately there is no easy solution and you cannot rely on large events or magazines as quoted as an advertising medium previously. You have to change people perception by actively getting out there and targeting it.
IF we look at the craft situation in the UK, the crafters happen to be their own worst enemy by driving their own prices down,and thus their own reputations and credibility ,many don't know their a*** from their elbow in relation to selling,marketing etc. In relation to Lampworkers I was looking at an ETSY shop the other night where some bright spark and there seems to be a fair few of them was selling four to six handmade lampwork beads for 12 bucks...Thats the darn problem, I have had recent meetings with a colleague who regularly sells sets of lampwork beads for in excess of £250 ... why because she has targeted her market and her work is incredibly good.
In response to life being a struggle for full time people - not quite so - I wouldn't swap my lifestyle for anyones who are employed with a gauranteed income.

Get out there speak to people and explain what you do at every possible opportunity raise the awareness of your own craft or trade - trouble is the value of hand made articles have taken a big nosedive in recent years because too many think it's easy to earn a few quid at a jumble sale on a saturday morning and call em selves jewellers....

Think I'll get off my soapbox now.

No offence to anyone meant or intended but I'm very passionate about what I do.
:snow:

Carl Martin
19-11-2009, 01:12 AM
Jason .. it is exactly what I have done. I could not make a decent living from one aspect alone. I work alone so I have to do 6 different jobs at once most of the time. The teaching is great fun and probably now has taken over from just making in general. I still get a fair bit of commission work and to be honest thats nothing to be sneezed at.

I can see you have learnt an awful lot in the short time you have been designing and making...keep it up mate you've learnt alot very quickly and to a high standard as far I can see.

Petal
19-11-2009, 07:05 AM
Reads with interest!

xx

Solunar Silver Studio
19-11-2009, 08:06 AM
Having recently watched Geti's video of a ring being machined with rapped attention - I think you beadmakers need to make some stunning professional videos of lampworkers making some glorious beads!

I should imagine it would be a logistical and insurance nightmare taking a full lampworking set up round shows - but you know how crowds gather when demonstrations are being given! So - go for the next best thing! Imagine having a sumptuous video showing complex lampwork beads being made...wouldn't that be a crowd puller!! You'd have a constant crowd gathered around your stall!!

Well, Geti?? What do you think? Make a video/videos....and sell copies to lampworkers to help them spread the word about the skill involved in making lampwork beads! (I want my cut, please!!):) And you can use it/them on your new site too!!

caroleallen
19-11-2009, 08:13 AM
That's a good idea. I've often thought about a video of me working but I don't have the right equipment and would imagine it would be very expensive.

Solunar Silver Studio
19-11-2009, 08:49 AM
That's a good idea. I've often thought about a video of me working but I don't have the right equipment and would imagine it would be very expensive.

Why do you think I aimed it at Geti!!:-D ;)

Nice little money spinner for him...(and I get my cut!!:Y::-D) And people get something to help them sell their stuff!!

mizgeorge
19-11-2009, 08:50 AM
Already happened Barbara ;) Sally Carver (red hot sal) has just produced her second beadmaking DVD.

There's also going to be a dvd available of the amazing demos done at the Flame Off every year.

There are also regular lampworking demos at bead fairs.

Solunar Silver Studio
19-11-2009, 08:52 AM
Damn!! :(| There goes my nice little earner!!:'(

bustagasket
19-11-2009, 09:29 AM
i still think its a good idea to have a videa on the stall, not only for the lampworkers themselves, but also for those of us that use lampwork beads, to help people have a better understanding of why the jewellery incorporating such items, can sometimes be the price they are.

Annelyse
19-11-2009, 11:06 AM
I usually stay away from this subject on lampworking forums as they can get very heated but I will try to be brave here and give you my opinion (in my awkward English).

The question was :"does the general public see the difference between beautiful handmade beads and mass-produced ones?"

All lampwork beads are handmade (whether it's in China, India or America) and I think that the keyword is mass-produced because even in the UK, some lampworkers tend to go in 'mass production'. They make a lot of simple little beads for volume and I think that the fact that their beads are simple and fast to make is usually reflected in the price. These beads are usually cleaned and annealed (which means that they should not crack) and often have a better finish.

There are other lampworkers who spend a lot of time and efforts on designing and experimenting with the glass and come up with some very artistic beads (one bead can take hours to complete as opposed to minutes for the beads mentioned above). These are usually the expensive beads.

Below is a picture of my collection of beads from various beadmakers:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2655/4117321182_48ae954884.jpg

I think that they look very different from mass-produced beads and I can also appreciate that they only present an interest to a certain type of jewellers.

Anyway, all that to say that it's probably important to let people know how we make our beads but that if they don't see a difference between cheap beads and more expensive beads then they won't spend their money and that is quite natural.

All beads have their place on the market, it is just not the same people that will buy them.

Sorry for the waffle and I hope you understand what I mean.

Di Sandland
19-11-2009, 11:10 AM
Wish my French was as good as your English, Annelyse. Well put :Y:

Emerald
19-11-2009, 11:19 AM
:": and what a lovely collection xx

Lindyloo
19-11-2009, 11:31 AM
Just further to that point of the video on the stall, I'm no computer expert, but surely you can digitally record some footage of yourselves making beads, then show that at your stall on a laptop?

Annelyse
19-11-2009, 12:23 PM
Linda,

Yes it's possible! I have done it ...(but never put it on my stall, I am far too vain and I don't like the way I look on it...although my husband assures me that it is actually the way I look):-O

Trudy
19-11-2009, 01:03 PM
The question was :"does the general public see the difference between beautiful handmade beads and mass-produced ones?"
.

On a recent trip home to see family I mentioned that I had just bought a bead that had cost me £20. I have to say that everyone at the table gasped and could not believe that one bead would be worth this much. I then took the box out of my bag and showed them Annelyses rockpool focal and they were completely amazed by it, took back everything that they had said and commented on how beautiful, intricate and detailed it is. They could see how much time and effort had been put in to it and they are now even looking to buy their own just as a mini piece of art to display. :)

caroleallen
19-11-2009, 01:13 PM
Well, I've just looked at your beads Annelyse and they are totally fabulous and well worth the money. I'd have thought that anyone could see that they are very special.

Trudy
19-11-2009, 01:21 PM
Well, I've just looked at your beads Annelyse and they are totally fabulous and well worth the money. I'd have thought that anyone could see that they are very special.

I agree, they are definitely worth every penny...and the new ones listed today are gorgeous!! :)

Annelyse
19-11-2009, 01:27 PM
oooh! Thank you Trudy and Carole:">:D!