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shelliem
12-11-2009, 10:45 AM
I was recently reading another thread when the discussed the AF and I think Di from Moon cottage helpfully made the following explanation of what it was which is as follows:

'AR means aspect ratio - its the all important ratio between the diameter of your wire and the inner diameter of your ring. By keeping it the same for the bead links as you have for the rest of your chain, and by using a double loop, the balls will fit seamlessly into the maille looking like they are part of it rather than add-ons.
have you tried wiring your beads with a full double wrap in the same AR so they integrate into the weave a bit more seamlessly?'

I kind of understand the description but I dont either :confused: and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to explain my question very well so please bear with me ...


If I had a 1.00mm wire do I need to have a 1.00mm diameter of my rings or does this mean that for every bead link you need to keep the same size wire/rings?

Also what is a double loop?

I probably have more questions but I dont know what I need to know to ask the questions at the mo.

I have started a new thread because I was conscious of not hijacking the other thread that briefly discussed this and I hope it makes sense!

Solunar Silver Studio
12-11-2009, 10:57 AM
Keep an eye on that other thread as there is still discussion about chain maille and ARs going on. George has posted a description of how to do double loops/wraps too. http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/22264-post15.html
Don't ask me though...I've not done maille....yet!

shelliem
12-11-2009, 11:03 AM
Thanks for your response

I don't know whether maybe I'm not quite ready to learn it yet but I still dont get it!!

I might go lie down and come back without brain fog and see if I can understand it later!!

People keep quoting AF and I dont really understand the relevance of it or how to apply it - I think I am missing a piece of the jigsaw somewhere :(|

mizgeorge
12-11-2009, 11:16 AM
I'll try to answer this one from a maillers point of view.

Every maille weave needs rings of a particular size. Rather than quoting hundreds of wire and size combinations, we think in terms of Aspect Ratio. This is the relationship between the gauge of the wire, and the inner diameter of a jump ring. It's easiest by far to think in mm for both measurements when making calculations.

For example, making a byzantine weave requires an AR (sometimes referred to as a magic number) of 3.5

So in 1mm wire, you need 3.5mm ID jump rings
in 1.3mm wire, you need 4.5mm ID jump rings (actual size would be 4.55, but it's fine to round up or down a little as needed to get an easy mandrel size)
in 1.6mm wire, you need 5.5mm ID jump rings.
etc

When adding beads to a maille weave, they integrate best if their loops are either completely different (either very tiny to fit inside the weave, or very big to make a statement) or if they become part of the chain itself. So integrating into a byzantine chain, which starts with a pair of closed rings, is just a matter of doubling the loop above the bead, which then becomes that first pair of rings.

The same rule can be applied to many types of chain - from the simplest 1 in 1 or 2 in 2, to things like a full persian, where the rings simply need to be spread open to make the first pair of links.

Hope that makes some sense!

Kalorlo
12-11-2009, 11:25 AM
Have you had a look at Aspect Ratio Demystified (http://www.cgmaille.com/articles/aspectratio.shtml)? It's important because you can make the same weave in different-sized rings, so if you want a smaller chain that has the same tightness as a chain made with bigger rings, you want your small rings to have the same aspect ratio (AR) as the big ones.

Think about it: if you have 1mm wire thickness rings that have a 10mm internal diameter, these will have different characteristics to 1mm wire thickness rings that have a 20mm internal diameter. The aspect ratio is how you group rings with the same characteristics (0.5mm wire rings that are 5mm across will weave in the same way as the 1mm/10mm ones: the AR in both cases is 10, and these rings are very skinny compared to their size). There are handy pictures on the link above.

shelliem
12-11-2009, 11:27 AM
Thanks George

I think I am getting there

So you multiply the size of the wire by 3.5 to get your figures.

I assume that when people are discussing aspect ratio this is what they are always referring to? (as in the difference between the wire and the ring sizes?

Its so good when the penny starts to drop!

shelliem
12-11-2009, 11:29 AM
Sorry Heather - thank you too, I got so excited that the penny started to drop that I didn't notice your post.

I'm going to make a point of really looking properly through that website you have quoted as George has mentioned it before too.

I just find it difficult to learn from a pc screen but I think it will be worth the effort.

bustagasket
12-11-2009, 11:40 AM
Thanks for your response

I don't know whether maybe I'm not quite ready to learn it yet but I still dont get it!!

I might go lie down and come back without brain fog and see if I can understand it later!!

People keep quoting AF and I dont really understand the relevance of it or how to apply it - I think I am missing a piece of the jigsaw somewhere :(|

I'm with you hun:'(

mizgeorge
12-11-2009, 12:04 PM
I'll be honest, CGmaille is a great site, but I'd avoid their ring size stuff as it's all in imperial measurements and VERY hard to understand!

And I think you've got the principle of AR now!

In simple terms, wire gauge x inner diameter = AR
or AR wire gauge = inner diameter.

Which is why mm is so much easier! Most of the american sites are now moving towards metric measurements for just this reason.

Di Sandland
12-11-2009, 12:09 PM
Michelle - I'm sorry if I was responsible for confusing you :( The thing about AR/aspect ratio is that its like many things and, once the penny drops, you feel so silly for not having understood it before.

If you think about it in very simple terms, it might help it fall into place.

Chain maille requires that you hang rings on rings, yes?

If you have to hang, say, two rings onto one ring, there's lots of room to spare.

If you have to hang, say, five rings onto one ring, the hole will need to be much larger to be able to fit the rings in. Does that make sense?
You will find the optimum AR given for any chain maille weave - this is the size of the hole in the middle of the jump ring that will not only hold the requisite number of other rings but will also make the chain lie properly.

Di Sandland
12-11-2009, 12:11 PM
sorry, was obviously writing at the same time as George ;)

shelliem
12-11-2009, 01:25 PM
Hi Di

You weren't responsible for confusing me at all so no need to apologise, you just made me aware of something that had crossed my mind but I wasnt aware of yet - if that makes sense.

I have been practising some basic chains with one size of ring and I had considered that there must be some thought that has to go into ring sizes for other types of weave.

So you taught me something - its so frustrating to want to know something but not know where to start in asking and you helped me with that.

So thank you.

And thanks to everybody else, the ring sizes quoted on that website are the same as the sizes quoted in my book and I have found it very confusing - it probably took me about a week to work it out and then I did because I noticed that I had a conversion chart on my steel ruler which I got in my beginners tool pack - thank you Cooksons!

I've got to stop for a few days anyway as work calls so hopefully I will have had the head space to process all this and carry on as I do find making chains quite satisfying - once I have gotten all the confusement out of the way :jedi:

MuranoSilver
12-11-2009, 05:44 PM
When I learnt chainmaille I just bought a kit from beadsisters and made it..
I didn't want to worry about ratios and all the technical stuff, I just wanted to
have a go and see if I liked it. ;)
Did all the research after so now I can (if I want to) make my own rings,
often just buy them though, more expensive but saves lots of time and lets
me get on withthe fun stuff...I even manage to be guilt free, lol
George is mistress of maille and makes her own =D>
Nic xx