PDA

View Full Version : GETI's balls on a chain!



snow_imp
11-11-2009, 08:55 AM
And now that I've got your attention :dance:

I would like to present that collaboration that Alan and I have been working on for the last few weeks.

The beads are titanium with silver inserts produced (of course) by Geti and I've put together the silver chain maille aspects.

What do you all think??

The first is similar to the carnelian one I did before (that's what got Geti's attention).

589 590

This second is just spacing the beads.

Larger pictures will be on my profile shortly.

591 592

Sorry that a couple of the photos have the beads out of focus - still learning on the photography aspect.

Mila Jewellery
11-11-2009, 09:01 AM
Oh they are really lovely :Y:

Jayne
11-11-2009, 09:02 AM
oh woooo!! =D>=D>=D>
Nice one guys!
J x

Gemma
11-11-2009, 09:06 AM
Divine! <3<3

Emerald
11-11-2009, 09:14 AM
They look really good Ann :Y: i like the second one best where the beads are split but it would be nice to see a handmade catch on there instead of a bolt ring i think even a trigger clasp would look better:)

HannahJewelleryDesigns
11-11-2009, 09:19 AM
Thats fab! I love the combination of silver and titanium- great pieces :Y:

snow_imp
11-11-2009, 09:21 AM
They look really good Ann :Y: i like the second one best where the beads are split but it would be nice to see a handmade catch on there instead of a bolt ring i think even a trigger clasp would look better:)

I'm working up to that, haven't quite mastered the knack of not destroying the clasp, but I'm working on it. I think I need to polish my hammer too as I notice it has a few knicks in it and as other threads have said - smooth hammers are needed.

Mind you, not sure what a 'trigger' claps looks like.

luckyelephant
11-11-2009, 09:25 AM
they look lovely!

bustagasket
11-11-2009, 10:38 AM
looking very good!! Well done you guys nice to see two artists working together

geti-titanium
11-11-2009, 11:03 AM
Looking good Anne and I never thought I would see my balls on a chain for the whole world to see =D>

mizgeorge
11-11-2009, 11:05 AM
Nice balls ;). I prefer the second version - I suspect the first one would end up with its balls on the wrong side of the wrist.

Agree about the clasp - either a nice handmade one, or something that looks a bit more 'expensive' than a bolt ring.

Just as an idea, have you tried wiring your beads with a full double wrap in the same AR so they integrate into the weave a bit more seamlessly?

snow_imp
11-11-2009, 12:49 PM
Agree about the clasp - either a nice handmade one, or something that looks a bit more 'expensive' than a bolt ring.

Just as an idea, have you tried wiring your beads with a full double wrap in the same AR so they integrate into the weave a bit more seamlessly?

I'm going to work on clasps (when I have time - never seem to have time) soon and usually go for an S-clasp as I can just about manage them from wire.

At the moment I do the wiring of the beads that way 'cos it's the way the book I learnt from did it - although I don't have a mandrel/pliers of the right size for the loops right now. Um, can't remember what "AR" means I must admit.

Di Sandland
11-11-2009, 12:53 PM
AR means aspect ratio - its the all important ratio between the diameter of your wire and the inner diameter of your ring. By keeping it the same for the bead links as you have for the rest of your chain, and by using a double loop, the balls will fit seamlessly into the maille looking like they are part of it rather than add-ons.

shelliem
11-11-2009, 04:05 PM
Nice balls ;). I have you tried wiring your beads with a full double wrap in the same AR so they integrate into the weave a bit more seamlessly?

At the risk of sounding stupid again! What is this?, how do you do it ? and do you have any pics of what you mean?

P.s I really like the balls and bracelets, especially the one with the three balls seperate.

mizgeorge
11-11-2009, 04:55 PM
Like this Michelle (sorry for the old picture, but it was the first one I found)

Slip one of the jump rings you're using onto round nosed pliers and mark the top and bottom of the ring onto the pliers with a sharpie. Use these marks to wrap the loops behind the beads and you effectively have the first two rings of a unit. You can do the same thing and spread the rings for weaves like persian.

Don't want to hijack the thread though (sorry Anne).

shelliem
11-11-2009, 05:00 PM
Oops sorry didn't realise I was potentially hijacking the thread.

I will take notes and maybe when and if I ever get that far ask again on a new thread.#-o

Thanks for the picture though it does look lovely.

snow_imp
11-11-2009, 09:10 PM
No problems on the questions/answers in the thread - all helpful to me.

Actually I was using the marked round nose pliers way of working, the pliers that I marked on the last item I made with rings sourced from the same place as the rings I used on this - so I expected it to come out the same size like last time. But I guess I didn't get it quite right.

I'm finding that using the round nose pliers it's difficult to get consistent sizes 'cos of the fact that the round nose pliers are not consistent in size from tip to handle - either the loops come out bigger or smaller than the AR of the rings and I'm not sure what to do about that. I wrapped the loops on this piece in the same marked place and in the same direction as last time but it just doesn't seem to have worked. Any advice would be appreciated George :)

mizgeorge
11-11-2009, 09:59 PM
I actually have a series of notches filed into various old pairs of round nosed pliers (use a triangular file and just file one side, which will NOT be the side you wrap onto). The two I use most, without a doubt, are one set at 2mm (for charm wraps) and the one set at 3.5mm (the standard 1.0mm byzantine ID, amongst other things!). Always wrap so that the new bit of wire winds onto the right spot, pushing any previously created loops down towards the tip of the pliers, rather than forcing them up, which will enlarge them. I wonder if that's what happened this time? I also tend to break the necks of any wrapped units so the bead holes are in line with the weave rather than diagonal - simply because many beads are patterned, or designed to lie straight - or are not perfectly round (I don't use a lot of absolutely round beads!).

Alternatively, wrap the loops on either a set of stepped pliers or straight onto a mandrel and then shape them perfectly into place on your round-nosed. I believe David Scott Plumlee has recently launched some mandrel tipped pliers designed specifically to work with his byzantine and box chain designs.

bustagasket
11-11-2009, 10:05 PM
I actually have a series of notches filed into various old pairs of round nosed pliers (use a triangular file and just file one side, which will NOT be the side you wrap onto). The two I use most, without a doubt, are one set at 2mm (for charm wraps) and the one set at 3.5mm (the standard 1.0mm byzantine ID, amongst other things!). Always wrap so that the new bit of wire winds onto the right spot, pushing any previously created loops down towards the tip of the pliers, rather than forcing them up, which will enlarge them. I wonder if that's what happened this time? I also tend to break the necks of any wrapped units so the bead holes are in line with the weave rather than diagonal - simply because many beads are patterned, or designed to lie straight - or are not perfectly round (I don't use a lot of absolutely round beads!).

Alternatively, wrap the loops on either a set of stepped pliers or straight onto a mandrel and then shape them perfectly into place on your round-nosed. I believe David Scott Plumlee has recently launched some mandrel tipped pliers designed specifically to work with his byzantine and box chain designs.

Its either getting late or i am getting thicker but thats gone straight over my head so i will have to re-read it in the morning lol.:(|:'(

snow_imp
11-11-2009, 10:20 PM
Thanks George, that helps a lot. I've been wrapping up the pliers, but I suspect I've moved above the line that I'd filed into the pliers - that would definitely make a larger loop. :)

The ID I've been using is 3.25 - which is why my stepped pliers don't fit the ID needed.

I'll try using a 3.5 ID, it'll give me a slightly looser weave which might not be a bad thing as it'll give me more room to work with. I'm sure I'll find something to do with the rest of my last order of rings with with 3.25 ID.

I did try to tilt the loop so they sat in the middle of the beads but I was afraid to scratch the beads. More practice on that needed.

P.S. I did try sawing my own rings tonight in silver plated wire for practice - definitely need more practice on that too. And I'm sure my fingers will forgive me when they stop bleeding. :)

mizgeorge
11-11-2009, 10:33 PM
What gauge wire are you using Anne? If it's 0.9mm then 3.25mm id is fine, but if it's 1.0mm, then it's too small. Byzantine is pretty AR sensitive, and really needs 3.5 give or take really not very much at all!

An AR of 3.25 will make a nice pheasible btw!

Practise your sawing on copper - if your plated wire is ferrous rather than copper cored, it will knacker your blades and be seriously hard work to cut!

snow_imp
12-11-2009, 07:15 AM
I ordered my rings from the maille queen and they are listed as being 18 gauge - I used that 'cos the Plumlee book (being an american) is all done in gauges.

If I move to making my own rings they are more likely to be 1mm wire 'cos its easier to source.

Probably why my loops don't quite match my rings as the wire is 1mm and the rings are 18 gauge #-o

The only copper wire I have right now was pulled out of the middle of some electrical wire that was going spare so it's thicker than any of the silver I use so I didn't want to practice on that right now - I thought the thickness would be a problem.

Stupid question now about the sawing of jump rings - I was just holding the coil of wire in one hand while using the saw in the other - hence the small nicks on the fingers - but also the blade kept slipping across the ring - is this really the best way to work when cutting rings?


And I'm using this smiley just 'cos I wanna see it in a message - :jedi:

where do these things come from!!

mizgeorge
12-11-2009, 07:43 AM
Anne, 18ga is 1mm (or 1.02 to be precise). Unfortunately, DSP's recommendation for 3.25 isn't ideal - in his latest book, he changes to 3.5 - which is the accepted AR for byzantine.

The thickness of your wire shouldn't make a difference to sawing - as long as you use the right size blade for the wire.

As for how to cut, most people find it easier to saw on a bench pin, with the coil held down firmly with your fingers. I do this sometimes, but also happily cut with the coil held in my hand. It's easiest to make one backwards stroke of the saw to get started, and once you've got a groove there, the saw should stay in the same place. You do need to make sure the blade is really tight (listen for a high 'ping' rather than a 'twang' when you check it, lubricate the blade occasionally, and keep a nice steady movement going. Try to keep the blade at enough of an angle to the coil that not too many of the teeth are in contact with the coil at a time - this helps stop the blade skittering across the coil. There are coil holding pliers available (I haven't tried them, but some people seem to like them) or you can make a little jig to hold the coil in a vice if it's easier.

It can take a while to perfect hand sawing, but really is worth it in the end!

Solunar Silver Studio
12-11-2009, 07:46 AM
I don't know if this AWG to metric conversion chart would be useful to you or anyone else...596 ...I can't imagine that you would see a difference between 18 gauge and 1mm with the naked eye unless you were really looking.

If it is any help to you - when I cut my jumprings I insert the saw blade through the 'tube' of the coil of wire I make and cut from the inside...then if you do slip a bit it doesn't show on the finished ring and it also means you are cutting from the inside of the curve so are less likely to slip in the first place! I also wrap a piece of low tack masking tape around the coil so that the rings all stay put in the tube shape while they are being cut and only start to bounce all over the floor when you are ready to open up the little masking tape cocoon!!:-D Of course - if you are not a butter fingers like me that won't be a problem for you!!

bustagasket
12-11-2009, 07:47 AM
Stupid question now about the sawing of jump rings - I was just holding the coil of wire in one hand while using the saw in the other - hence the small nicks on the fingers - but also the blade kept slipping across the ring - is this really the best way to work when cutting rings?




I am by no means an expert at cutting rings by hand, so feel free to correct me peoples :) but when i do mine i just hold them between my fingers too as i dont have a vice yet, but i certainly dont have a problem with cutting my fingers or slipping. I was just wondering if you were using the right size saw blade? The only sensation i get when i am sawing is heat from the rings, not hot hot just a warmth. I tend to have a finger across or at least against the blade as it goes back and forth, so perhaps thats why mine dont move and i dont cut my hand lol. I also make sure i use burr lube on the saw to help it glide.

Anyway as i say i am no expert but the blade size thing popped into my head so i thought i would mention it :)

bustagasket
12-11-2009, 07:48 AM
oopsie it seems we were all typing at the same time, sorry :-s

snow_imp
12-11-2009, 08:41 AM
Thanks Su, Barbara and George - I have no problem with you all providing the same/similar answers at the same time - hopefully some of the advice you've all given will make its way into the dim recesses of my mind.

George, I had noticed that Plumlee had changed the ID he used, as he appeared to also have changed to using 19 gauge wire and doing a lot of bead wrapping which I'm not interested in, so I haven't spent a lot of time with his second book. I'll check the tension I've got on the blade, I was wondering if it was loose while working.

Barbara - I like your idea with putting the saw blade inside the coil and using masking tape - I'll have to try those.

Su - I was using a 2/0 blade as suggested by George in an earlier thread, it seems to cut okay, I think I'm just all fingers and thumbs with it right now. i guess all new skills need practice :)

Thanks for all the help - I'll put as much as I can into practice and show the results some time.

[[]]

Solunar Silver Studio
12-11-2009, 10:27 AM
Just as a by the way, Anne, - if you do try cutting from the inside of the coil you do really need to do it with a bench peg (with a 'v' cut into it) or if you are really careful you can do it against the edge of a work surface (but I wouldn't advise it! ...bench peg is best!:Y:)

Just reading through the thread again I noticed you are having problems with winding jumprings. I use knitting needles as mandrels for all mine as they come in all sizes. I inherited loads from various family members but have picked them up from Charity Shops and Car Boot Sales at ridiculously low prices - as in 20p a pair...and I was even given one free because it didn't have a partner (the woman did give me a really odd look though!!). The newer metric ones are easy to size but the older ones need to be converted Yarn Forward - Needle Conversion Chart (http://www.yarnforward.com/needleconv.html) (You need to double check some of the UK sizes with calipers though as it isn't always a direct conversion). I now have a complete set from 2 - 8mm and they have been really useful!!

snow_imp
12-11-2009, 01:12 PM
Thanks Barbara

Hm, I don't have a bench peg right now, so maybe I won't play with cutting from the inside for now.

I've managed to source a load of knitting needles from my mum recently - including a 2 mm one, although I'm not quite sure what I'll use that size for!

Di Sandland
12-11-2009, 01:16 PM
Anne - Cookson's bench peg (http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Benchpeg--Anvil-NOW-ONLY-9.99-prcode-999-082) costs £9.99 and is the best £9.99 you'll ever spend. You won't believe how it widens the scope of what you are able to do - and it makes those tiresome jobs less so ;)

Emerald
12-11-2009, 01:18 PM
and no wonder you have cut you fingers trying to learn how to saw pierce get a bench peg as Di said and clamp it on your table now and things will seem a whole lot easier x

snow_imp
12-11-2009, 01:24 PM
Anne - Cookson's bench peg (http://www.cooksongold.com/Jewellery-Tools/Benchpeg--Anvil-NOW-ONLY-9.99-prcode-999-082) costs £9.99 and is the best £9.99 you'll ever spend. You won't believe how it widens the scope of what you are able to do - and it makes those tiresome jobs less so ;)

Thanks Di - I knew some one had mentioned something similar on a thread so was about to go searching for it. I've added it to my basket now.

Jo - I guess I'm too enthusiastic for common sense at times. :) Thankfully its only a couple of small knicks.