Archimedes drill

[Coco]

'kay so I have one of those hand drill thingies that you bounce the top up of and down, I made a little dent with a centre punch so the drill bit wouldn't go sliding around. It made a slightly bigger dent in the metal but no hole so I changed the drill bit. It's taking ages and there's still no hole! What am I doing wrong??? !? :'(

[bustagasket]

i have only used the little archemedes drill on pmc at nics, if i am drilling silver i use the old fashioned hand drill, so sorry huni, i cant actually offer any advice on theis one :( (not that i am ever actually any good at advice)

[Coco]

But we appreciate the effort []

[AlexandraBuckle]

i've used a bow drill - is that the same thing...?

[Boo]

I have two little Archimedes drills, one for sub 1mm sizes and a slightly larger one and find them superb for pilot holes and general use (for example, I wanted a tiny pilot hole in a timber mirror frame yesterday) where you need something slow and delicate and what I bought them for was drilling holes in polymer clay - for which they're absolutely ideal.

But I suspect that you don't get enough pressure for metal drilling to progress through the hole. I've done holes in copper with them, but find a small powered rotary tool better for silver. Drilling is a complex combination of drill shape (to remove swarf etc.), sharpness, pressure, speed and torque and I don't understand it anything like as well as I'd like to.

I bookmarked this site and it was the one where the penny dropped with some things for me: UK DIY FAQ (http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/drillfaq.htm)

[Petal]

I have two little Archimedes drills, one for sub 1mm sizes and a slightly larger one and find them superb for pilot holes and general use (for example, I wanted a tiny pilot hole in a timber mirror frame yesterday) where you need something slow and delicate and what I bought them for was drilling holes in polymer clay - for which they're absolutely ideal.

But I suspect that you don't get enough pressure for metal drilling to progress through the hole. I've done holes in copper with them, but find a small powered rotary tool better for silver. Drilling is a complex combination of drill shape (to remove swarf etc.), sharpness, pressure, speed and torque and I don't understand it anything like as well as I'd like to.

I bookmarked this site and it was the one where the penny dropped with some things for me: UK DIY FAQ (http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/powertools/drillfaq.htm)

Excellent link Boo - thanks for that :Y:

xx

[Di Sandland]

Brilliant link, Boo, which I've duly bookmarked :Y:

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Hi Coco, Have you used the bit in your drill for anything else before this? I was just wondering if it is possible that the bit could have become blunt. I have had the situation before where my bits seem to just polish the inside of the dent rather than actually bite into the surface of the metal...particularly if I have already centre punched it. A new bit has sorted it!

I also have 2 Archimedes drills 1 with a 1mm bit and the other with a 2mm. I use them mainly on dry pmc without problems but occasionally I have to use them on metal too, which tends to be a bit harder on them!!

[EmmaRose]

I only use hand drills for fragile or very thin things (ie when no other recourse). Bow drills are a pain unless you have the knack (needless to say I don't). Ergo I bought a pillar drill from B&Q, about £30 their own brand. Not as many speed settings or control as a jewellers one but fraction of the price. It is still my only pillar drill. You can also drill with a pendant drill or rotary tool, but as I am useless at straight lines under the best of circumstances I prefer the pillar drill) If you do get one get a flat clamp vice thing to hold pieces like rings....
Em

[Boo]

I'm curious - is a pendant drill basically the same thing as a 'flex shaft'? Is it just largely terminology - as I see 'pendant drill' used a lot here, but I've always called mine a flex shaft.

I suspect a pendant drill is the sort with a large square motor that hangs with the flexible drill bit beneath, where my 'flex shaft' is basically a rotary tool, hanging from a hook, with a flexible extension.

[EmmaRose]

Should be the same thing. Just means hanging with a foot pedal....
E

[Di Sandland]

Boo a pillar drill is a free-standing machine with an integral baseplate. A picture is probably best: this is the one I used to use for drilling wood blanks.

509

[Boo]

Thanks Di - it was a 'pendant' drill I was confused over, not the 'pillar' drill - that's fairly self-explanatory. I just asked here as EmmaRose had mentioned one and I see that term used here more than flex shaft - I suspect it's a US/UK variant in terms.


Should be the same thing. Just means hanging with a foot pedal....
Good. Just wanted to ensure I didn't make too much of a fool of myself in future by using the wrong terminology. :dance:

Mine didn't come with a foot pedal, but my father made me a foot operated switch which I can use with anything powered and I'd be totally lost without it. I do largely use it with my flex shaft and hand rotary tool.

[Sheltie]

Have to admit to being a luddite. I only use a bow drill, I love the rhythm you get with them. I taught my 9yr old to use one and now he does the less tricky drilling for me. He will even attend shows with me and demonstrates the use of the bow drill. He will then give it to an unsuspecting member of the public, who then struggles with it.


Mind I also use a replica bow drill (Circa about 1-1500 AD) for drilling stone.

Once you get the hang of these drills then they are great. But as said it is all in the rhythm

[Coco]

Oh! Oh! Oh! I can do it! I just drilled two holes :dancing:


Took a long time though, I'm really quite tired :D

[ben b]

the archemedes drills were invented a long long time ago, and there's still people using them, many still drilling the same hole...

they are very good for doing accurately placed centre 'bore' holes, to guide a bigger powered drill after.

They work best with top quality, sharp drill bits, under 1mm diamiter.

You need to use two hands, one to push down, the other to work it, which aint always possible, so you may need to practice using forfinger on top to push, and fingure and thunb of same hand to work it.
quite an aquired technique.

With a sharp (expensive) small drill, they are amazingly accurate for hole placement, but need patience.
They stem from a time when days were longer...oh so so much longer lol!

[Coco]

I like my drill it's so little and cute, but if I were to go for one that gets the job done quicker, which one should I go for? Bearing in mind I is poor! :'(

[Emerald]

cooc is the bit - chuck, tight enough around the drill sometimes it can work itself loose x

[ben b]

Have you tried working up in drill bits?

I mean, dont start with one thats the right size you need for the finnished hole, as it may be too big initially?

use a really tiny one to get a hole, then a bit bigger one, and so on

once the initial hole is cut, slightly bigger drills bore it out really quickly

[geti-titanium]

the archemedes drills were invented a long long time ago, and there's still people using them, many still drilling the same hole...

Come on everybody - that was funny :)

Incidentally as well, pillar drills are generally more meatier floor standing models and although they are still technically pillar drills (if they have a central pillar of course) the smaller table top drills are known as bench drills. Not all bench drills have a central pillar however.

[AlexandraBuckle]

i just googled bow drills and they aren't what i thought they were.
what i have is actually called a pump drill apparently...

Back and forth on Reciprocating Bits « Full Chisel Blog (http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=111)

just thought i would share! was told by my tutors that mine was a bow drill...
maybe this is a common error, or maybe it was just me that had it wrong!

[Coco]

I've done holes in copper with them,


How long did it take you?

[caroleallen]

This is just bore-ing! :)

[bustagasket]

This is just bore-ing! :)

LMAO carole:Y:

[Boo]

How long did it take you?
Well, that would really depend on how thick it was I suppose. I think it was probably about 0.6/0.7mm thick and took a few seconds longer than a power drill would have. It's slower, so you have more control.

[Coco]

Did you push really fast?


Why does that look so wrong? :rolleyes:

[Di Sandland]

bloody hell, you guys make me laugh

[AlexandraBuckle]

Did you push really fast?


Why does that look so wrong? :rolleyes:

oh dear, wait till Geti sees that one....

[Boo]

You have to put a bit of pressure behind it and of course, need a sharp bit - a blunt bit won't give good results in anything. I clamp to a bit of scrap timber and use both hands.

[Sheltie]

You have to put a bit of pressure behind it and of course, need a sharp bit - a blunt bit won't give good results in anything. I clamp to a bit of scrap timber and use both hands.

I just use one hand and have a drink with the other......see men can multitask:X

[bustagasket]

omg this site deteriorates so much!

[Coco]

I found an old mini rotary tool in our garage and that takes ages to drill through copper too. I've tried it with various drill bits and they all take ages. Do you think one that does more rpm would cut quicker or do I just need better quality/sharper drill bits?

[Boo]

I saw this earlier and wanted to reply, but dinner was ready and I also wanted to actually try drilling a hole before commenting.

It really depends on how thick your copper is, you haven't said what you're drilling and what you hope to achieve, so it makes it hard sometimes to give a precise answer - the answer ends up in general terms.

When I'm drilling holes in hammered bits that are something like 0.5 - 0.7mm thick, a rotary tool goes through in a couple of seconds. I tend to clamp the metal against some scrap mdf and drill into it - for safety and a better quality hole. I stop when I see sawdust.

You need to punch a mark with a centre punch first so that your drill doesn't scoot over the surface and it gets a good start and drill perpendicular to the surface, not at an angle.

Your drill bit needs to be sharp (and the right sort/shape) and as already mentioned, a hole started smaller and working with a progressively larger bit is better than trying to make one large hole with one single bit the right size. Metal drilling needs lubrication ideally, but for the modest holes I've done in thin metal it just hasn't been necessary - I'm through before the bit gets too warm.

I have several rotary tools and the one I prefer for drilling, because I prefer the shape of it in my hand, is the slowest, I actually prefer it not to go too fast. But I suspect if I want to go through thicker metal I'll need to use something with more muscle - or work in short bursts with lubricant. Steady on Geti.

I just tried a couple of 1.5mm holes (the size I'd do to thread earwires etc.) in some 0.5mm thick copper and used my favourite little rotary tool with a 1.5mm high speed bit. I did 2 holes, one at the slowest speed of the tool and another at the fastest. The slow one was through in about 3 seconds (by which time, I'd gone 3mm into the timber too) and the fast one in half that. You're through the hole and realise that you are and stop the drill in a flash. I don't think I could actually start and stop it again any faster than that.

So if you're only drilling thin sheet and not getting through straight away, maybe your drill is either wrong on blunt. This same rotary tool has a habit of the drill not always running true - it spins with an elliptical axis - so I always look at it spinning against the light to check it's straight - tonight it was spot on first tightening - other times I might need to undo and re-fasten the chuck several times to get it truly running straight. If it isn't straight, it won't make a good hole at all.

I've only done a modest amount of drilling in metal - so not terribly experienced, so others may be able to offer more help. I've just stuck with what has worked for me.