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ben b
25-10-2009, 10:32 PM
ive just re done my website.
Now its not great, as I dont have a lot of pictorial content yet, and, the market stall looks rubbish at the mo, BUT as a site, what do you think about useability, logic of links, page loading time etc......

any comments greatly appreciated

its at : ben buxton .com but i havent put a direct link cause of seo etc..:)

Mystic
25-10-2009, 11:26 PM
Hi Ben, checked out your website and it looks good, I like the little video at the begining.:Y:

geti-titanium
26-10-2009, 07:32 AM
ben buxton .com but i havent put a direct link cause of seo etc..

Whadya mean Ben? Your going to need as many links as you can get with this site using frames.

Frame websites are way out of date and totally search engine unfriendly, which means that you are highly unlikely to be found for any search term.

A navigation bar along the top would be good to give guidance to the user as to where they should be going.

Also, I wouldn't use a splash page either. people want to go straight into a site thesedays without landing on a homepage and then having to click again to get into the main site - you'll probably find that they won't bother.

Apart from that though for a start, videos are good, but you also need loads of text with your keywords built into it and to get rid of the frames.

MuranoSilver
26-10-2009, 08:04 AM
Sorry Ben
I'm with Geti on this one, the links aren't easy enough and "click on the pictures" navigation (like the market stall), where you don't know where you're navigating makes me close a site.
If you want to keep the clicky pic then some floating info when you hover over the picture would help e.g. "Earrings Close Up"
The link going to the market stall wasn't imediately obvious as it could've been just Bold and Underlined text.

Your work is high quality and your website needs some more work to reflect how good you are :Y:
Nic x

amazingbabe
26-10-2009, 09:53 AM
Oh sorry but me too, I just wanted to see the jewellery there, just straight in find what i'm looking for oopppsss#-o

Kalorlo
26-10-2009, 10:32 AM
First thing: your front page is loading rather slowly for me. It took ages for the YouTube video to be visible, so I was sitting there wondering why on earth you had an image of a tv on your page. You need more content (words!) on that page.

'Enter site' buttons irritate me. I'm already on the site! You should be giving me the information I want to see immediately before I go elsewhere.

Clicked on the button - a big scrolling marquee and yet another video to wait for. A little bit of about text. Still no jewellery photos! And it's not obvious where to go to see them. No navigation links.

Eventually I click on the market stall link - normally I wouldn't, because I'm not in the area so not interested. It's also not immediately obvious that it's a link.

Market stall - down the side you have listed Sterling Silver, Gents Steel Range etc, but these aren't live links so I can't go straight to those sections. There isn't anything saying to click on sections of the image. There's only a link to your fashion jewellery at the top.

So I click on that and just get a page full of images. None of them have names or descriptions and I can't click on them for more details. It's really not ideal.

On a design side, the big brushed metal gradients at the top and bottom of the page look rather clumsy, and the brushed metal as a whole doesn't really go with the blue wallpaper background. I'm on a widescreen monitor, so I see an awful lot of that wallpaper around the sides and bottom of the page - I want more content and I want it to resize itself to my monitor.

(And like Geti said, you *want* direct links going to your site! Having a link to your website in your signature here is a good thing - and you might have got more clickthroughs even from people reading this if you'd put in a live link and not made people copy and remove spaces).

Um, I hope this is helpful instead of disheartening? Keep the design simple, with easy navigation and plenty of links and enough text so that people can see who you are, what you do, and what your products are. Videos are nice extras, but don't put them in pride of place - they slow everything down, and YouTube can have problem times. An empty gap where a video should go doesn't look good.

Jayne
26-10-2009, 12:03 PM
Hi Ben!
So, you're online & you're live! That's quite an achievement & I know that if I ever get to that stage I'll be v pleased indeed :Y:
I guess that now it's up there you can twiddle & perfect....
I did visit your site 3 times before I found all the links (only found them after hints from forum members) so I guess they're not that obvious. The whole look of the site is pretty retro - not my thing - but if that's what you're after, then all well & good. I thought the actual photos of the jewellery looked good - nice quality & lighting, although I had to travel quite far into the site in order to see them - be good to see at least one example of your work on the first page.
I'm guessing it's a WIP, so looking forward to see what comes next! :)
J x

glen
26-10-2009, 07:56 PM
I am busy building a website, and have been for what seems like ages already, and every time I get close to thinking I am almost finished I realise I am quite far from it actually.

I have had alot of experience in forums and I know how it feels to show something you have worked hard on and then get alot of feedback that at first seems a bit lesser than you hoped. The thing is that feedback is a brilliant thing so often under-rated. Use it as anything else and to it's fullest potential.

Putting that website together without much web-design knowledge is quite alot of work, I was wondering if you had paid somebody to design the website for you?

ben b
26-10-2009, 09:57 PM
(alan) I think the frames MAY be because its domain forwarding?
I dont actually have it on a domain of its own, it uses masked forwarding.

The reason i didnt put the address, is cause when i was doing a site for a friend, i mentioned it on a forum, and forums are quite well indexed (try googling your own username, and cooksons) and it appeared places above the site did!!! NOT what i wanted!!

The site was made using easy webpage maker, a wisiwig tool, and all self taught....i had done the homepage before, but the rest took a day.

Apart from the costume jewellery photos, from the wholesaler! i am picture short (no lighting) so the content is stretched out!

really, it was a question of putting what little content i had up, and trying to make it look interesting! More of me working, and my own stuff would be good..and is comming...but thanks u guys as youve answered most of my main queries, such as loading times, link readability, user friendliness etc.
This is particularly true of the video and images, as i have quite a quick connection, so i get mislead, and am still learning about image and flash/vido optimisation.
I loved my little telly showing the utube...i maually edited the utube link html to fit, and colorised it, and photshopped the telly image found on the net. it was just indulgent to include it as an intro page!

Ive learned quite a bit, and still am, so if anyone has hosting or web questions, im happy to help...maybee we could make this a feature, as you feedback is great!

bustagasket
26-10-2009, 10:14 PM
lol yes much better than my feedback, i lose connection as soon as you ask me to look lol

Jayne
27-10-2009, 08:27 AM
(try googling your own username, and cooksons) and it appeared places above the site did!!!



Okay, I tried this and found loads of people called 'Jayne Cookson'!
(btw, my surname isn't Cookson, incase you're wondering)
J x

ben b
27-10-2009, 11:45 AM
i guess it depends on popularity of the word too, jayne is quite common, especially jayne cookson. But you can see how much is indexed if you try:
'geti cookson forum' and on google the 3rd entry down gets this: geti cookson forum - Google Search (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=geti+cookson++forum&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq)=
but if instead of clicking the entry, you click 'more results from cookson gold' you get this: site:cooksongold.com geti cookson forum - Google Search (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=+site:cooksongold.com+geti+cookson++forum&ei=UermSr66EpmZjAeWja25CA&sa=X&oi=forum_cluster&resnum=3&ct=more-results&ved=0CBQQrQIwAg) which lists most of his posts.
so you can see how well indexed it is.:~:

Jayne
27-10-2009, 12:25 PM
Okay, that's interesting.
What I still don't get (sorry about this - you may have to speak slowly and use words of only one syllable) is why you were reluctant to post the link. Do you want to wait until the site is completely as you want it?
J x

amazingbabe
27-10-2009, 06:06 PM
Jayne you are so common ha ha ha..........:X I detest sites that have the Enter Site button,, but who am i to say with my mrsite ensemble !!!!!!!

ben b
27-10-2009, 07:09 PM
going a bit off thread here!...but to answer Jayne, more fully:
I once did a site for a mate, called (this is only an example) fredblogs.com. It was a takeaway, and its only purpose was for people in our town to type into google 'fredblogs.com' or 'fredblogs takaway' and his details appear.
Because it wasnt a world wide web thing, with lots of links going in and out, like a link site getting money from refferals, we didnt want it to appear all over the place, on this and that post, out of context, just because we wanted someone to click on it to get paid a refferal.
I manualy submited it to google, and in the meantime, asked for critique on a forum. Less than a day later, it appeared, top of google for that domain name search, but titled 'what do you think to my website'....and a link to some forum of me discussing if it was crap or not....NOT very proffessional?
It took weeks for the domain to appear on google, and in the meantime I emailed google to have the cached entry deleted, so it didnt conflict with the site.
This will vary, depending on how common the domain name is, of course. The more un common, the more likely ANY reference will get listed prominently, and from the best linked, or highest rated sources over the actual domain name.

Jayne
27-10-2009, 07:19 PM
Jayne you are so common ha ha ha..........:X

:D I only just noticed tee hee :D
(probably 'cos I hear it so much, outside the back of the boozer, feelin around in the dark for me gold hoopy earring that fell out when I woz pullin down me lycra skirt wiv one 'and, fag in the ovver, wonderin' whether Wayne'll bring 'is girlfriend in tonight or if I can get off wiv 'im later.......yeah, that's mostly when I hear it.....)
J x

Jayne
27-10-2009, 07:26 PM
Ahh....Ben, thanks for explaining that to me (bit slow nowadays......I'm over 40 you know?). That's really useful :)
J x

Di Sandland
27-10-2009, 07:27 PM
Ben, that's a good point - it had never crossed my mind (perhaps it should have done ;))

ben b
27-10-2009, 07:42 PM
I found out myself, the hard way....when I first made my site, i entered details with every free listing site, thinking it would get better 'propergated'...more links the better. These were sites like 'best of' this and that...or 'local' this and that..all sites who list you free and later try to sell you advanced listings. All of these know 'seo' and index well, so i found i shot myself in the foot...they all appearead above my own domains listing!
Rather than help it, they pushed it further down the google page!!!
If you want controll over your site's google position, and you dont need it to appear anywhere at any cost to integrity, keep it on the 'qt' and just submit it to google maually, with well chosen keywords and title.

Just a note, also though (in my so far gained web experience) anyone who's got a site, which is already top of google for a search on that exact company, or domain, will already be 'propergated' well and so listing it on this forum will not interrupt that, as the entry (and it will be there) will be several google pages deep, depending on popularity of the name. Im just over careful now!

Emerald
27-10-2009, 07:45 PM
:D I only just noticed tee hee :D
(probably 'cos I hear it so much, outside the back of the boozer, feelin around in the dark for me gold hoopy earring that fell out when I woz pullin down me lycra skirt wiv one 'and, fag in the ovver, wonderin' whether Wayne'll bring 'is girlfriend in tonight or if I can get off wiv 'im later.......yeah, that's mostly when I hear it.....)
J x

have we met?

Jayne
27-10-2009, 07:47 PM
have we met?

do you ever go by the name of 'Wayne'? ;)
('ello gorgeous)

Emerald
27-10-2009, 08:55 PM
do you ever go by the name of 'Wayne'? ;)
('ello gorgeous)

now if you had said waynetta?

look what you made me go and do :threadjacked: poor Bens post x

Milomade
27-10-2009, 09:15 PM
My two peneth worth from a web designer point of view [as that's waht I do for a living]:

Frames a huge no-no - no good for seao and no good for people trying to bookmark your content either. For good SEO you need clear well structured pages written in valid semantic code and styled using CSS so that your layout and content are totally separate. You also need lots of well written content full of key words and phrases that relate to your page titles, your image alt tags, you links title tags and the content within your meta keywords and description. You should structire your page content correctly using H1, H2, H3 etc tags for headings.

You also need well structured navigation that is consistent from page to page so that search engines as well as humna users can navigate your site easily.

You are lacking in so many of the above.

But as you're not a web designer, I'm not criticising you as I'm always pretty impressed with folk who give the whole web thing a go, when they have little or no experience of building websites, I'm just advising you of good practice when it comes to getting noticed online. If you google my name 'Evie Milo' you'll see that I dominate the first 10 pages of the search results...

Milomade
27-10-2009, 09:18 PM
I meant to add that I didn't even notice that the website was more than one page until I read other people's comments on this thread. It was only then that I went back and rolled my mouse over all the text until it showed that a link was present - the fact that I had to hunt links down means that they're not very obvious as links or navigation.

ben b
28-10-2009, 02:43 PM
My two peneth worth from a web designer point of view [as that's waht I do for a living]:

"You also need lots of well written content full of key words and phrases that relate to your page titles...."
"you'll see that I dominate the first 10 pages of the search results... "


I'd have to disagree here. Dont forget, many people just want what i want with this site. That is, for you to say to a customer, 'you can view the rest of my stuff on my website' and then it appear if you 'search' for the domain name, as many people dont know how to enter in the address bar, they just use google..
My site shows up once, top of google, for the actual domain...job done, and thats with 'frames' too, so no prob there....because Im not trying to sell to the world, or, 'catch' people searching for certain words...I dont want to sacrifice content, by making it inhuman in its wording like "welcome to my jewellery website where i sell jewellery to jewellery buyers in my town"...its too pushy. a few web types seem to struggle with this concept!
I want the pages to be interesting, not 'enginneered' to hook people in.

When you say you 'dominate' so many pages of google, is this fair? Because it is not if I am looking for a word similar to one you have deliberatly 'optimised' on your site... I'd have to troll through all the results pages your so proud of taking up, with one site, just to find what it is im looking for. :Y:

EmmaRose
28-10-2009, 02:52 PM
welcome back Ben!
I agree with most of the comments...I didn't even know there were links from the front/home page, or where to click on the market stall
Em
x

ben b
28-10-2009, 03:08 PM
Hi em....I gotta admit, the links are ermmmm 'discreet'....
but hey it was fun doing it, an experiment in image mapping i think its called, with the stall pic links.
i am studying css and hand coding, so i will work on a screen filling site, but just wanted to get something up quick. The feedback has been really useful

Im going to/and have already re done bits of it, and will change it all soon...so this thread wont make any sense soon lol....all the posts wont make sense as the pages will have changed.....

One of the main things i was after, though, was technical info, like how long the video took to load...as my connection is fast, which may make me over do pages, in terms of media...The video of the chain repair takes about 5 seconds to load for me, borderline on the waiting threshold? but if your reading the words, its easily loaded by then...so having a video on the home page doesnt seem odd to me, where it may to others....especially with slower connections

Milomade
28-10-2009, 03:19 PM
My site shows up once, top of google, for the actual domain...job done

What if people don't know your domain name?


and thats with 'frames' too, so no prob there.

Building a site with frames is the worst way of building websites. I won't lecture on about that as I could bore you to death with the technicalities.


because Im not trying to sell to the world, or, 'catch' people searching for certain words...I dont want to sacrifice content, by making it inhuman in its wording like "welcome to my jewellery website where i sell jewellery to jewellery buyers in my town"...its too pushy. a few web types seem to struggle with this concept!

If you read through my Milomade website do you think it's too pushy? I've just written about what I do in a casual manner - in no way I'm I deliberately repeating the word jewellery or other keywords etc - if you'd read what I'd written correctly you would understand that by 'well written content' I was talking about your content tying in with your page titles, your title tags, your alt tags and even your file names at that. Everything needs to tie together nicely for good search engine presence.


I want the pages to be interesting, not 'enginneered' to hook people in.

Same here - I'm after the same result and I think I do that quite well with the way that I build my websites. People pay thousands of pounds every month to appear at the top of google for certain keywords and phrases - that's what you're referring to - that's not what I do or what I was on about. I put in place the basics of good structure, good content, good code and that gets me the results I'm after.


When you say you 'dominate' so many pages of google, is this fair? Because it is not if I am looking for a word similar to one you have deliberatly 'optimised' on your site...

You guys were discussing your search results when searching for your name - I just used my name as an example here of what happens when you do the basic SEO stuff - that's all I've done and if someone searches for my name rather than my domain names [milomade.co.uk or my-igloo.net] as they might not know my company names - they are boumd to find me within the first 10 pages of google. I was just stating a point about good seo basics - not bragging.


I'd have to troll through all the results pages your so proud of taking up, with one site, just to find what it is im looking for. (troll being a good word here).:Y:

I am proud of those results - it shows that what I do for a living is successful.

I responded to your request for opinions about your websote with a few honest simple points on what is good practice with regards to SEO as I do know what I'm talking about - I do web design for a living. I wasn't expecting your negative barrage of responses - so above a list of mine - case shut - I won't bother to comment any more as I was just trying to help you, but instead of taking my constructive criticism and help on board you have chosen to throw it back in my face - not very nice!

Emerald
28-10-2009, 03:27 PM
[QUOTE=Milomade;



I responded to your request for opinions about your websote with a few honest simple points on what is good practice with regards to SEO as I do know what I'm talking about - I do web design for a living. I wasn't expecting your negative barrage of responses - so above a list of mine - case shut - I won't bother to comment any more as I was just trying to help you, but instead of taking my constructive criticism and help on board you have chosen to throw it back in my face - not very nice![/QUOTE]

mmm i agree with you there Milo why ask if you dont like the response. Milomade is a great site and it suits her work very much and to have someone on the forum that is happy to give a response for something they do for living is great especially when a lot of us havent got a clue with what we are doing with our sites really.

agent_44
28-10-2009, 03:36 PM
I have to say, Evie's advice was very good, and she know's what she is talking about. There're a difference between confidence in your abilities and bragging! If you follow what she's advised you will have a well optimised site that is far more usable and findable, with nothing that would give people irrelevant results!

ben b
28-10-2009, 03:39 PM
hey..sorry to have upset you:confused:
didnt mean to!:~:

Some of the very helpful replies ive had have gone on about seo, keywords...etc etc...
All im saying, is that that is not the basis of what im after, and it does annoy me, as an internet user, if someone has took a lot of space in search result returns to inform me of one simple web site, whos reason to be there is to make money. (and thats not saying its milo's !)
People who post very interesting articles, and essays, dont bother about seo...they merely want google to index it, and regurgitate it for those who would be interested in its genuine content? its the sellers who bang on about 'seo' and the 'tricks' of seo.
Apart from its iffy visuals, definate lack of content and guesswork links (lol) i was interested in how long the vid took to load, and pictures generally...but seo seemed to come up a lot, and yet...even with these 'no no' frames it does do, what the seo'ers are saying it wont...that is come up top of page, when searched for, by its name.
And, (politely, as im really not trying to upset you, honest!) when you said what if they dont know my domain name? i dont understand...obviously they wont find it! but then....people who know me (and it is a site for local reference) would type in my name, along with jeweller..(or even not!) and hey presto..hence, the domain name!!! if they know me...they know the domain name. thats my 'seo' lol!

bustagasket
28-10-2009, 03:42 PM
i dont have a clue about what any of you are saying. And i think perhaps at this moment in time i am grateful for that lol.

I sooooooooo need to get on with my website, gradually started to take the pics again, but i need to really get on with them and at least get a gallery open on there. !!

agent_44
28-10-2009, 03:46 PM
I see what your saying Ben, and the reason people keep mentioning SEO is the fact that it's such an important part of building a web site (for most people ;)) these days. After all, there isn't always much point in having a site that can't be found easily.

As food for thought, what if you have someone who wants to find your site that can't remember your name, all they can remember is that you are that jeweller chap with the stall in Brum! So they will use the words they can remember that describe you. Might not be your name necessarily, and there could be a whole host of other keywords people might use to find you that aren't necessary your name and the word jeweller. It's important to try and imagine how others might think, and all the possible ways they might try to find you!

glen
28-10-2009, 03:47 PM
I just looked at yr site milomade, love yr button charm and button bracelet:Y:

geti-titanium
28-10-2009, 04:03 PM
People who post very interesting articles, and essays, dont bother about seo

I wouldn't agree with that - the whole point of writing and submitting articles for the vast majority of writers is for backlink generation - so I would presume that the people who know how important their articles are, are also very clued up on seo.

ben b
28-10-2009, 04:09 PM
I see what your saying Ben, and the reason people keep mentioning SEO is the fact that it's such an important part of building a web site (for most people ;)) these days. After all, there isn't always much point in having a site that can't be found easily.

As food for thought, what if you have someone who wants to find your site that can't remember your name, all they can remember is that you are that jeweller chap with the stall in Brum! So they will use the words they can remember that describe you. Might not be your name necessarily, and there could be a whole host of other keywords people might use to find you that aren't necessary your name and the word jeweller. It's important to try and imagine how others might think, and all the possible ways they might try to find you!

Very true! my actual 'site' so to speak, had the intention of being indexed well for my name, or its domain name...and its done that great...top of google, couldnt ask for more. But just in case, i did a site for just what your saying....and it comes up top for all searches relating to jewellers in my town. The downside was it was all 'seo' and yes, im guilty, it is a 'troll' site but hopefully a very useful one, as it "independantly" lists all the towns jewellers, including me.
Thats what i mean in a way about being a bit anti this seo thing...this other site is graphically boring, but ticks all the searchability buttons for google.

ben b
28-10-2009, 04:13 PM
I wouldn't agree with that - the whole point of writing and submitting articles for the vast majority of writers is for backlink generation - so I would presume that the people who know how important their articles are, are also very clued up on seo.

here we go again! flippin seo!!!:(|

This pre occupation is just what i mean!

At least i know I wont offend alan as i know him...but come on?
all those doctors who've submitted papers and thesis...all the blogs, hoping someone will listen...people voicing genuine complaints, opinions, thoughts and theories.....they all do it for 'back links' LOL[-X

geti-titanium
28-10-2009, 04:17 PM
they all do it for 'back links' LOL

Oh yes - they're all at it - doctors are the worst :)