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View Full Version : Borax as a flux



lucy81
18-10-2009, 04:15 PM
I know cooksons and other suppliers sell borax cones, but I'm waiting for an order (including a Borax cone).

I've hunted for Borax in chemists, DIY shops etc, yet nobody seems to know what it is I'm talking about.

However, there has been a change recently (some EU directive) so they've classed it as hazardous(?), which is probably why it's so hard to get hold of now.

I've managed to buy Borax substitute (by Dri-Pak), but I'm wondering if it's still acceptable for use as a flux (I don't understand the chemical differences)? Otherwise, I'll save it for cleaning


Opinions appreciated!

Solunar Silver Studio
18-10-2009, 05:13 PM
Hi Lucy...I can't help you with whether borax substitute can be used for a flux - but I have been googling! Apparently you can still get borax from Chinese supermarkets and grocers!! (:dontknow: don't ask me!!) Obviously it won't be a cone but I don't think that is a problem.... You need a chemist to be able to tell you about the borax subsitute...I know borax is sodium tetraborate decahydrate ( we used to use it as a subsitute expletive in the chemi lab I worked in many years ago!!:-D) but I don't know what the borax subsitiute is or how either of them work (or not) as a flux!!

ben b
18-10-2009, 08:41 PM
you'd just have to try it and see! Then you can let us all know lol..
I reckon there are better alternatives to borax as a flux, such as the green liquid 'auflux' and specialist silver ones cooksons do.

I really only use borax for coating from firestain, or for adding to melts to help it melt. Interestingly, when using it to coat and prevent firestain, or help prevent heat damaging stones (note, i say 'help' !!) i was taught to mix it with meths, dip item in, and flame off, rather than a vid i saw uploaded here, where its just painted on from a cone with water.

I did do some work part time in a workshop that had its own equipment, and they used a borax cone and water and brush, as a method of fluxing, so i had to use this while there, so, from experience, I can tell you, there are easier, and better alternatives.

I needed some sulphuric acid a while ago, and didnt want to go to the jewellery quarter, but found a chemists supplier, on an industrial estate right near me. They were happy to sell it me, only, they had to deliver it to a chemist in town, who they supply almost daily. They were really helpful, and foned and checked. The chemist said no! This was despite knowing a woman who's worked in the chemist years and can verify im a bonafide jeweller!

lucy81
18-10-2009, 09:09 PM
I haven't done any soldering since I was at college. We used Borax cones then. But if there's better products, maybe I should just forget the Borax and try something new?
Think I'm going to experiment at some point, as I'm becoming impatient!

Emerald
18-10-2009, 09:12 PM
Hi Lucy you can still get borax cones cooksons sell it but the auflux is very good to x

ben b
18-10-2009, 09:30 PM
strictly speaking, auflux is marketed as a gold soldering flux, and is very liquid. I use it second nature, but from feedback on the forum, silver workers (rather than general jobbers, working in both gold and silver) find it unusual at first, comming from borax. You do flame it off, so it crystalises in a similar way, to hold the solder to the object, though it is a little more inclined to bubble up, or the pallion blow away from the flames force...but its soon got used to.
There are, as well, a few specific silver fluxes cooksons do, but i have never needed to try them, as a general gold/silver smith....but dedicated silver workers will have thier favorites

jetlag
19-10-2009, 12:41 PM
Newbie question (our tutor says how to do things, not why we're doing them): what exactly does flux do? Is it just to help the solder flow?

Lindyloo
19-10-2009, 10:04 PM
Yes, that's right. Without it, I think it would just form a ball.

Emerald
19-10-2009, 10:10 PM
Yes, that's right. Without it, I think it would just form a ball.

More often than not it doesent do anything but glow if no flux is used, the flux cleans or removes the oxide ready for soldering and wetting it allows the solder to run

jetlag
20-10-2009, 08:58 AM
Thanks :)

So is Borax really that old fashioned? It's what we use in class, but if there is an easier way...

Emerald
20-10-2009, 09:05 AM
Thanks :)

So is Borax really that old fashioned? It's what we use in class, but if there is an easier way...

erm well grinding a bit of borax down is hardly the most strenous exercise it is lol, people tend to use the auflux cos it doesent bubble as much but i usually put my borax on heat it till it bubbles and then put my solder on, its cheaper and doesent end up all over the bench when you have forgotten to put the lid back on!:)

bustagasket
20-10-2009, 09:11 AM
we use cone borax at my class too, and i must admit it really bugs me when i have lined something up and then the borax bubbles and moves it all!! I havent tried auflux, but i will definately take a look at it.

Boo
20-10-2009, 09:17 AM
I must admit that I'm using borax still, purely because when I started and wanted to try soldering, it was the cheapest to get something to start with and didn't require the expense of sending by carrier - and appeared least toxic when I was going to be soldering in the kitchen. I've now got used to getting it to work best, so haven't yet felt compelled to change. I'd have to repeat that process to use something different.

I just spend a few minutes periodically with a knife blade and scrape a load off into a container and mix a little paste when I need it. I've got used to working with it now and find that letting it dry thoroughly, or as Emerald says, applying some heat until it settles before putting the solder in place, or placing it with a pick when it's heating, it works perfectly well. I can tell by the appearance of it when the solder will flow.

bustagasket
20-10-2009, 09:20 AM
I must admit that I'm using borax still, purely because when I started and wanted to try soldering, it was the cheapest to get something to start with and didn't require the expense of sending by carrier - and appeared least toxic when I was going to be soldering in the kitchen. I've now got used to getting it to work best, so haven't yet felt compelled to change. I'd have to repeat that process to use something different.

I just spend a few minutes periodically with a knife blade and scrape a load off into a container and mix a little paste when I need it. I've got used to working with it now and find that letting it dry thoroughly, or as Emerald says, applying some heat until it settles before putting the solder in place, or placing it with a pick when it's heating, it works perfectly well. I can tell by the appearance of it when the solder will flow.

Yes I have got used to heating it before putting solder near it to get it to settle, but i found it still moved the delicate stuff, and somewhat obscures the view if you get me, but i think i will have to try holding stuff down with a pick as you say.

Not tried making shavings, sounds better and faster than the "rotate the cone around the dish" technique that i do lol

Boo
20-10-2009, 09:32 AM
The borax dish is rubbish and you'll never get enough off that way. I just scrape it off like sharpening a pencil or peeling a carrot, with a scalpel blade or craft knife. It comes off as powder as long as you use the right angle and don't dig the knife in.

I do it into a little airtight container, but over a sheet of paper (I fold it in 4 so that the creases allow me to shake it to the centre to retrieve), as it spreads a little, but that keeps me going for a few weeks.

bustagasket
20-10-2009, 09:34 AM
The borax dish is rubbish and you'll never get enough off that way. I just scrape it off like sharpening a pencil or peeling a carrot, with a scalpel blade or craft knife. It comes off as powder as long as you use the right angle and don't dig the knife in.

I do it into a little airtight container, but over a sheet of paper (I fold it in 4 so that the creases allow me to shake it to the centre to retrieve), as it spreads a little, but that keeps me going for a few weeks.

Thanks boo - guess what i will be doing tomorrow :D:Y:

mizgeorge
20-10-2009, 09:42 AM
Boo - why not just buy powder?

Boo
20-10-2009, 09:46 AM
I probably still have 70%+ of my original cone left. For the few seconds it takes, I shall continue until it's done. Five minutes every few weeks is not exactly worth spending cash I don't have to save the time.

Ominicci
20-10-2009, 11:00 AM
George, you mentioned Firescoff in another thread here (http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/introduce-yourself-our-jewellery-community/974-sterling-silver-cufflinks.html), but didn't reply to my question. Is it really as good as it sounds....and no pickling?

mizgeorge
20-10-2009, 11:07 AM
Sorry Nicci - I'd managed to miss that completely (I suspect my brain's already on half term).

It is as good as it says - a bit tiresome to apply for small stuff as you need to get the piece hot, (enough for a drop of water to boil off) and then coat everything pretty thoroughly. I think it works best for pallion soldering as it's hard move things around enough to coat them thoroughly once paste has been applied, and you have to do it this way round apparently. But it really does rinse off with water, and no firescale at all. I particularly like it for anything that's involved sheet as this seems to be when I've had most problems with stain.

It seems to last a very long time - I'm still happily using my first bottle.

Ominicci
20-10-2009, 11:24 AM
Thanks George, will thinks eriously about it then. :Y:

Lindyloo
20-10-2009, 10:06 PM
George. Never heard of firescoff before. Do you mean that you put the pallions on after applying the firescoff?

mizgeorge
20-10-2009, 10:08 PM
Yes Linda, you use it instead of flux.

http://www.nventa.com/firescoff.php

There is a UK supplier, but it's not Cookson's!

Lindyloo
20-10-2009, 10:09 PM
Sounds great. Firescale is the bane of my life.:Y:

Emerald
20-10-2009, 10:33 PM
Sounds great. Firescale is the bane of my life.:Y:

well you could always use a mix of borax and meths