Damaged goods

[caroleallen]

I had an order from Notonthehighstreet for a pair of fairly expensive earrings with I duly sent out in a pillow box inside a corrugated cardboard postal box. A few days later the lady said she'd changed her mind and could she return them in their original packaging. I said my T@C with Noths state that earrings are non-returnable but as they hadn't been worn, I'd give her a refund.

When they arrived, they were in the pillow box inside a jiffy bag and as they were stud earrings, they'd been squashed completely flat. I checked with Noths who said that I should explain the problem to the customer and offer a partial refund, which is what I did.

The customer has just got back to me saying she's not happy and will report me to Trading Standards and will take legal advice on getting her money back. She's saying she sent the earrings properly packaged but I can't understand how anyone would think that stud earrings would be OK in a jiffy bag. As you can imagine, I'm really upset about it.

[Jayne]

Oh Carole,
That's really horrid & I really feel for you []. When you've handmade something, really spent time making sure it's perfect and then someone shows such little consideration and respect......it's just so hurtful :(
Does this woman know just how badly damaged your earrings are?
I'd be inclined to give her a full refund, but send her big graphic photographs of the damage that she's done to the earrings. (maybe not the best idea - I can get emotional about these things)
No, unfortunately, it's always best to give the customer a full refund regardless of the injustice of the situation as it's never worth the bad publicity. I think Nic had an experience similar to this recently with a pmc fingerprint - people can just be so unreasonable!!!
I'm still feeling like Judge Dredd I'm afraid and think if it were me I'd still want them to know!! What does everyone else think?
J x

[Petal]

Ah that's a real shame that you've had grief from this woman Carol. I sometimes find that people who do the 'I'll talk to Trading Standards' threat, don't always carry out their 'threat', it is usually to get a response from whoever they said it to. I think the lady should have sent the package back in its original packaging and not just in a jiffy bag. That's just not good enough and she sounds a bit like a 'professional pain' kind of customer, who's trying to get something for nothing!

BTW, if you want me to I could ask a mate who works in Trading Standards (I used to help them out with work from time to time) and I'll check with him and see where you stand (no names etc). PM me if you like.

Don't take it to heart, I think you did the right thing.[]

xx

[Boo]

A tricky situation and I'm not surprised it's left a bad taste - it sounds like you were more than reasonable with the customer. Under the distance selling regs, the customer has a duty to take good care of the goods and to ensure they reach you in good condition when returning items. At the point the customer sent the item back to you they were their property and responsibility to insure them (and make any claims for damage) etc. in transit lies with the customer.

This is from paragraph 3.62 of this pdf from the OFT:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf


When a consumer returns the goods to you in accordance with the contract, the consumer must take reasonable care to ensure that you receive the goods and that the goods are not damaged in transit. If the consumer does not exercise reasonable care and the goods are damaged, you may have a claim against them for breach of this statutory duty.

[caroleallen]

Thanks for the info. I wonder what her next move will be.

[bustagasket]

Thanks for the info. I wonder what her next move will be.

Probably nothing hun. We get just such threats at the garage, when customers are trying to get something for nothing, they will try every angle in the book, but are generally all mouth.

[Atelier Ava]

I am so sorry you have had this problem, most people dont realise that putting anything in a jiffy bag means that it will go through rollers when posted. She has unwittingly made a very costly mistake.
I had the same situation but in a slightly different way with an understanding customer. Her mother bought a pair of studs from a shop I supply and then sent them to her in a jiffy bag, completely squashed when they arrived. She paid for the repair and was really nice about it.
An important point in any communication with her would be to state that she had not returned them in their 'original packaging', say what that was. The point that Boo made is a really excellent one too and possibly all you need.
Actually with trading standards I dont think she has a leg to stand on as she was returning them against policy but with your kindness, having recieved them in perfect condition. It is obvious to anyone that it is not your fault. You could phone trading standards yourself this puts you in a good position as far as they are concerned as you are making every effort to solve the problem, the conversation will be logged if you want it to be. Tell them that you are upset by this womans threats as you had done everything right. You could also use the advice given if it is in your favour against the woman, otherwise not mention it. When you are being attacked like this it puts you in a strong position if you are well informed.
I think this is a really personal decision as to how to proceed, you might feel all the negative stuff is not worth the effort, rise above it and give part of her money back (take out your costs, p&p, materials etc) or on the other hand make her learn fully from her mistake.
Under the circumstances it is not your fault, there are people out there whose job in life is to be horrible and make nice people feel bad, dont let it get to you. :)
Paula

[Lisa Quinn]

From a purely emotional perspective, I think that I would just refund her the money and put it behind me as a bad experience, if it keeps rumbling on for who knows how long, you will be constantly worried and upset about the situation.

Some people have no principles and it's those of us with a moral conscience who suffer in these situations trying to do the "right thing". Let her have her little victory, as I believe "what goes round, comes around " and she will probably get thrush or genital warts from her cheating husband as a karmic punishment for being so unkind to you.

Lisa xx

[Boo]

I think I'd go with the pro-active approach myself too - but how you deal with it is very much a personal decision and depends entirely how you feel about it.

This would be my personal approach - presented as kindly and professionally as possible - but firmly - you can retain your dignity and give decent service without having to lose out too much:

The customer is at fault in this instance. Explain her legal responsibility to have taken care of the item during return (this is the actual legislation to quote: Statutory Instrument 2000 No. 2334 (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm) - see item 17.6 and that section) and your request to use the original packing return the item (as long as you did and can prove it) - carefully selected by yourself to appropriately protect the contents after research with postal methods etc. Tell her that as a gesture of goodwill you will refund her half of the price paid and maybe offer her an alternative outcome of repairing/restoring them to good (if it can be done) and returning them to her at the original price paid, with no refund.

Tell her that she's welcome to take the matter to Trading Standards as you have retained all documentation and would be very happy to cooperate with their investigations and she can count on your timely responses to their investigations.

Call her bluff, she's in the wrong and probably knows it, she's trying to scare you into doing more than you legally need to. Perhaps also recommend that she makes a claim for the further half of the price paid from the postal service under the terms of the insurance she took out - who after all are actually the responsible party in this instance - by sending it Special Delivery or whatever - as that's the only method that would cover jewellery - if she sent it through normal post, then the risk was hers and she would just have to stand that loss and chalk it up to experience.

[caroleallen]

All really good advice, thanks.

We've had several communications but she isn't backing down. I've refunded her half the cost of the earrings but she won't accept that. I'm now leaving it to Notonthehighstreet to sort it out.

[MuranoSilver]

Sounds like the nightmare I had all over again []
Keep your chin up
Nic x

[Lindyloo]

I tend to agree with Lisa, in that this situation will play on your mind until resolved. And that if it were me, I would want to draw a very quick line under the whole affair in order to forget about it as quickly as possible.

For me that would mean refunding her money and letting it go. Then at least, although we all know she was in the wrong, you have taken the higher road, and can feel good about that. And perhaps you can recycle the earrings??

I wouldn't have known that the pillow box wouldn't survive in the post, but then if it had happened to me, I would have been more than happy with a partial refund, knowing that I was supposed to have taken better care of the earrings. In fact, I would never have used the jiffy bag, simply because I am a careful kind of person. But if I had, then I would accept responsibility for that.

She is just one of those people who complain about everything. We all encounter them once in a while, and they are just horrible. If only we could see them coming a mile off, and we could all avoid them! :Y:

[Jayne]

Hi Carole
Good to hear that NOTHS is dealing with the customer now - hopefully they can take some of the heat and soon it will be resolved :)
J x

[ben b]

I think there is a lesson to be learned here.
And, like good tutorials, has come at a price...the price of those earrings.
Now you know (and i know, from reading this) jiffy bags arent enogh, and you need an inner carton...and this inner carton MUST be used when returning goods.
SIMPLES! you can now do a little sticker, saying this, and why its needed, as part of your packaging, to explain this to the customers, who, in fairness, cant be expected to know (i didnt!).
This is obviously playing on your mind, and is the main reason i stay away from direct internet selling. The customer can change thier mind, within 2 weeks for any goods sold online. (i dont think even pierced products are excempt). You have to have the 'business' like capacity to wright this off, or at least offset it against profits from the successful sales. You have to be hard nosed, and accept the unfair losses.
Please dont loose sleep over this, but accept it as a business loss, a learning curve, and a reality of internet selling....then suddenly, any unpleasantness, customer emails etc simply go away, you just refund, and mark the losses down for the bookeeping.

[Boo]

the main reason i stay away from direct internet selling.
In that case, you're potentially losing out on good business. I don't know off hand how many orders I've had on-line - several hundred - and not yet had anything returned. One customer said initially that they were disappointed with a pair of earrings - they were much smaller than they'd visualised them. I pointed them to the page with the various sizes in imperial and metric and when she saw that, she realised the error was entirely hers, she hadn't seen the sizes. I still offered to take them back and she said "not likely, I love them now I've got past my initial surprise".

So not selling on-line because a customer might want to return is a disproportionate precaution. I had a haberdashery and craft shop for 6 years, I had more customer problems then than selling on-line - people would return 30p worth of buttons that they'd chosen themselves because when they got home they didn't think they matched that well.

I think many of us cost in some self-insurance for such losses, so we have a virtual fund available to cover unavoidable losses. So far, I haven't had any with jewellery, crossed fingers.

[geti-titanium]

I have to agree with Boo, if you aren't trying to sell on-line then you are missing out on potentially the largest single market that you will ever encounter. Internet sales are growing at an alarming rate, advertising revenue on the internet now exceeds television advertising and the odd loss on a sale is more than worth it for the increase in turnover you can get.

[Di Sandland]

Geti - old darlin, you - your signature seems to be expanding again ;)

[Emerald]

Geti - old darlin, you - your signature seems to be expanding again ;)

How many Geti's can one Geti get?

[Di Sandland]

How many Geti's can one Geti get?

PMSL - please tell me there's only one!

[geti-titanium]

Geti - old darlin, you - your signature seems to be expanding again

Yes I think I'm up to my 4 limit now :Y:


PMSL - please tell me there's only one!

You'll be pleased to know there's only one true GETi :~: