Gas setup indoors

[Siskin]

I'm currently using a cheap butane torch for my soldering, which has been doing the job so far, but now I'm at a point where I would like to upgrade to something better (SLT would be wonderful). However, given that my workshop is a spare room in the house, it seems my options are very limited. I'm curious as to what everyone else does.


My research tells me that propane cannot be stored in the house. Small butane canisters is ok. Home insurance companies have confirmed this: if I have a propane cylinder in the house, my home insurance would be invalidated.


So it feels like the options are:
(1) Have propane tank outside, with an elaborate feed system through house brick walls.
(2) SLT running on butane cartridge, with oxygen generator system.


I presume I'm not the only person who has a workshop in their house... what does everyone else do?

[Caro]

That may not be your only problem.

I had a very careful read of my insurance policy and it forbids "manufacturing". Now how on earth do you define that! At what point does a hobby making jewellery cross the line?

I had a chat with them and yes, my "hobby" jewellery making with a few sales a month is considered by them to be manufacturing. On the plus side they were not worried by my patio heater sized propane tank. The underwriters agreed to cover me notwithstanding but there is a note on my policy about what I do and I am not allowed customers coming to the house (which I wouldn't have anyway) nor do I have any liability cover for my jewellery.

Read your policy very very carefully and if you are in any doubt at all ring your insurer.

[Siskin]

That may not be your only problem.

I had a very careful read of my insurance policy and it forbids "manufacturing". Now how on earth do you define that! At what point does a hobby making jewellery cross the line?

I had a chat with them and yes, my "hobby" jewellery making with a few sales a month is considered by them to be manufacturing. On the plus side they were not worried by my patio heater sized propane tank. The underwriters agreed to cover me notwithstanding but there is a note on my policy about what I do and I am not allowed customers coming to the house (which I wouldn't have anyway) nor do I have any liability cover for my jewellery.

Read your policy very very carefully and if you are in any doubt at all ring your insurer.

Oh dear! It's sounding like hobbyist jewellery-making in the house is not as viable as I had hoped. I had kind of assumed that lots of people have a home workshop, but maybe most people are lucky enough to have an outdoor building for their work?

[ps_bond]

Many insurers will get twitchy about running a business from home - T H march tend to be recommended for more specialist policies, including craft workers.
I'm not with them because they couldn't provide enough cover for what I was doing.

Might be a suck-eggs comment, but bear in mind voiding your insurance will invariably breach your mortgage terms & conditions too.

[Caro]

No it's very possible - I do it! One of my spare bedrooms is now quite a well equipped workshop.

You may need to switch insurance companies - some are more business friendly than others. Mine is OK with business, it just doesn't like manufacturing! And even then I have their agreement to do so in a small way which is all I need.

You may need to step away from the likes of Direct Line etc and use a broker. The cover is there, you just have to find it.

[Siskin]

Thank you Peter and Caro!
I will do some more insurance policy research.

Insurance aside, the suppliers of gas cylinders state quite clearly that propane cylinders must not be kept indoors. E.g. Calor say: "For residential properties, you can store up to 30kg of butane (2 x 15kg gas bottles) indoors. Propane should always be stored outdoors".

I think the Smith Little Torch can run on butane? So that might be the way forward, I guess.

[ps_bond]

Insurance aside, the suppliers of gas cylinders state quite clearly that propane cylinders must not be kept indoors. E.g. Calor say: "For residential properties, you can store up to 30kg of butane (2 x 15kg gas bottles) indoors. Propane should always be stored outdoors".


Seems to be down to the pressure, but I haven't found any legislation backing that up.
Not that I'd want 30kg of butane cylinders indoors anyway.

[alastairduncan]

Thank you Peter and Caro!
I will do some more insurance policy research.

Insurance aside, the suppliers of gas cylinders state quite clearly that propane cylinders must not be kept indoors. E.g. Calor say: "For residential properties, you can store up to 30kg of butane (2 x 15kg gas bottles) indoors. Propane should always be stored outdoors".

I think the Smith Little Torch can run on butane? So that might be the way forward, I guess.

An interesting discussion.

I've taken a look at the calor guidance which is based on the UKLPG Code of Practice No 7 and this is guidance, no regulations. I think there is some confusion between the terms "storage" and "in use" there is a difference. The guidance states that the propane cylinders should not be stored indoors, not that they should not be used indoors. The calor "Code of Guidance" https://cip-glob-cdn.azureedge.net/-/media/sites/greatbritain/pdfs/code-of-guidance-for-storage-of-cylinders.pdf has a section "Indoor Cylinder Storage" it doesn't mention indoor use though.

[Petal]

For insurance, try A-N artists insurance and Ian Wallace craft insurance, as they might be able to assist.

As for the other stuff on gas tanks - most interesting!

[Clifford Manthey]

I use to have Four large Oxygen tanks, propane tanks,acetlene in my garage chained to the wall. Hoses went over the attic rgh. six feet away to my GlassBlowing, Lapidary, and Office Room.Over an entry way with two block walls. Now I have just Map, small oxygen tank, and propane for my Silver Smithing. Wish I had the large tanks again. I was going to relocate. I never sold any items all boxed away. There is insurance company's for your jewelry and events. Look up Actinsurance might help. I use to lay them flat in the pick up truck secured. Which is a no no should be standing. I use to pick them up next to the Cape. I felt if I got rear ended I would be launched into space. Many trips I did and burned a lot of glass and fuel.
Stay Safe and check for leaks. I'm no expert by any means.

[nicks creative stuff]

I remember the main difference between propane and butane regarding safety indoors is that propane is heavier than air and should never be stored indoors in case of serious leaks.
A large propane discharge will accumulate in the lowest point of a property especially dangerous in the boating industry. Butane is different being lighter than air any leak will rise and disperse more easily. Propane is preferred for torch use because it burns slightly hotter and stored under high pressure. This is why old-fashioned cabinet heaters on wheels designed to accommodate a 13 kg bottle within is for indoor use and have a blue butane regulator attached that is not compatible with propane …🔥 … Nick

[ps_bond]

Butane is about 2x denser than air...

[china]

My understanding is that all forms of LPG are heavier than air, I have because of this discussion being revived again contacted my insurance company and there is no issue so long as it is stored in approved containers, and has the appropriate approved fittings,
clearly different counties have different requirements.

[nicks creative stuff]

After some Internet reading looks like I got it all wrong … butane is also heavier than air also hotter than propane.

[Ruedeleglise]

Yes, in my nautical days we always had to “flush out” the bilges to clear any gases. I saw a number of boats with deck-heads lifted and potholes blown out!
David.


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