PDA

View Full Version : Cutting Solder



Di Sandland
05-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Am I the only one who has trouble cutting silver solder into pallions? I've been using solder paste but, to be honest, I actually prefer traditional solder - if I could cut the bloody stuff. I've ruined my best flush cutters on it and even then couldn't really cut it small enough.

Tell me what I'm doing wrong, cos I know its something stupidly simple <:)-

Emerald
05-10-2009, 05:15 PM
Hi Di have you hammered it to make it flatter?x

Di Sandland
05-10-2009, 05:19 PM
Hi Di have you hammered it to make it flatter?x

Er - no. [-o< Told you it would be something stupid #-o

MuranoSilver
05-10-2009, 05:24 PM
I dont use flush cutters I use shears - cuts through really easily :)

Emerald
05-10-2009, 05:26 PM
Yes i use shears or snips to

Di Sandland
05-10-2009, 05:27 PM
In my basket as we speak - feel really stoopid now.

MuranoSilver
05-10-2009, 05:30 PM
Don't be daft, stoopid would've been not asking and getting frustrated ;)
Nic xxx

Coco
05-10-2009, 05:54 PM
I use the rolling mill (college one of course :rolleyes:) But I find it quite tricky to cut too. Why don't they just make it thinner in the first place and then we wouldn't have to hammer etc it?

bustagasket
05-10-2009, 05:56 PM
i always have trouble cutting it with even shears, never thought of making it thinner by bashing it but i will when i next use it, ty guys :D

pauljoels
05-10-2009, 06:05 PM
I may not be experienced enough so feel free to correct me. Would it make sense if Cooksons sold pallion's by weight or something - ready cut? I know it would cost a little more, but might be a useful timesaver?

Boo
05-10-2009, 06:29 PM
I have this problem too - I have some solder wire which is much easier to cut small amounts of, but when I looked through Cookson's large solder collection, I think they only do wire in easy - the one I have is easy and I use it where appropriate and I only need a tiny amount.

They also did solder powder which I wondered if that might work to use tiny amounts and pre-melt it into a blob before positioning?

Di Sandland
05-10-2009, 06:31 PM
They also did solder powder which I wondered if that might work to use tiny amounts and pre-melt it into a blob before positioning?

Now that's an interesting idea. Has anybody around here used it?

Fi Wilson
05-10-2009, 06:50 PM
I use power scissors to cut my solder strips up. Feels a little more natural to cut with than shears to me. See product code 999 72E on Cooksons.

Fi

Ominicci
05-10-2009, 07:03 PM
I use snips (as that's how my tutor did it) but bashing/rolling it to make it thinner would help too :ta: for asking Di !!!!:Y:

Lisa Quinn
05-10-2009, 07:35 PM
I also thin it and then get a big plastic bag and spend a night snipping into it with top cutters so that the pallions don't keep flying around the room, then I keep them in separate airtight pots. I've never used shears but will definitely be giving it a go next time I run out.

Lindyloo
05-10-2009, 09:10 PM
Also make sure you put your fingers on the end of it as you cut, just like you would when using snips on wire to stop it pinging across the room. That way the pieces fall downwards onto the bench. Sorry if that's too obvious.

kymbi
05-10-2009, 09:38 PM
Also make sure you put your fingers on the end of it as you cut...

....but very carefully - I had a bit of a nasty accident a couple of years ago involving a pair of new (and sharp) tin snips and a small strip of hard solder :'(

bustagasket
05-10-2009, 09:41 PM
....but very carefully - I had a bit of a nasty accident a couple of years ago involving a pair of new (and sharp) tin snips and a small strip of hard solder :'(

oh wow that doesn't sound good

kymbi
05-10-2009, 09:57 PM
It wasn't too great Su - an interesting and deepish slice with lots of blood! Thank goodness my son was quite accident prone at the time so I had some paper stitches in the first aid kit.

bustagasket
05-10-2009, 10:02 PM
It wasn't too great Su - an interesting and deepish slice with lots of blood! Thank goodness my son was quite accident prone at the time so I had some paper stitches in the first aid kit.

glad you were able to deal with it swiftly :D

MuranoSilver
05-10-2009, 10:27 PM
You gotta love those butterfly plasters, (big fan of new Skin too ;))
Nic x

kymbi
05-10-2009, 10:49 PM
You gotta love those butterfly plasters, (big fan of new Skin too ;))
Nic x

New skin? I must have a look - it could be a good addition to my first aid kit :Y:

MuranoSilver
06-10-2009, 08:12 AM
Germolene make it it helps cover burns like a flexible layer of skin. :D

ben b
15-10-2009, 04:06 PM
Due to machine manufacturing, just about all bullion dealers no longer make silver solder in oblong pallions, like they do gold, because most of thier customers feed it into a machine.
It now comes in long thin strips, which is quite a thick 'sheet' thickness, compared to gold pallion solder. Also the strips width seems to be different for easy med and hard solder, from between 3mm to 5mm wide (ish!).

therefore, when you buy it, you need to cut it into managable lengths, of about 4 inches, possibly with a jewellers saw, or 'tin snips' type solder shears.

Then, you pass these through a rolling mill (if you have one) or hammer them, to make them the same thickness as normal (gold) pallion solder.

Then it is best to cut the pallions with solder shears (not end cutters) by first cutting down the sheet to get a inch long very thin strip, of a bout 1mm and bending it away from the sheet. Then you snip away at this, shaving off tiny pieces and place a finger over the end to steady and catch the pieces.

It takes a little practice, but you find your pallions get smaller, and you get quicker, till your able to cut pieces you can barely see!

silver oxidises easily, so it can be useful to lightly file the stock strip before you make the first cut into your solder stock length, (just over the bit your going to be cutting into) with a fine, needle type file, which guarantees the solder will flow.

bustagasket
15-10-2009, 04:27 PM
thanks ben i never thought about "cleaning" the solder before cutting it - thanks for that tip :), i shall be bashing some and snipping it tomorrow i hope :D

bustagasket
15-10-2009, 04:36 PM
thanks ben i never thought about "cleaning" the solder before cutting it - thanks for that tip :), i shall be bashing some and snipping it tomorrow i hope :D

Boo
15-10-2009, 04:38 PM
If I'm understanding it correctly, you hammer/roll it flat and cut it into short strips (1"-ish) and then cut those with shears lengthwise - then snip off little bits from those thin 1" strips? Makes sense as a technique, but does it cut easily enough lengthwise like that? I'm going to need to invest in some proper shears I think.

Thanks for outlining the technique.

Emerald
15-10-2009, 04:44 PM
once you have flattened it you can easily cut it lenghtwise as long as your shears are good ones and sharp

Di Sandland
15-10-2009, 04:54 PM
Thanks Ben, makes perfect sense.

WitchfordSilver
15-10-2009, 07:32 PM
I run my through the Rolling Mill, makes it nice and flat and much thiner.

This way I can cut quite big bits with the tin snips, but still get a very small amount of solder.

ben b
16-10-2009, 02:43 PM
im used to using gold solder, in oblong sheets, so of course it does sound a bit odd when i say cut down it lengthways, as easy silver solder comes in quite a narrow strip!

It will widen out, after rolling or hammering thinner, but even then, you will probably just get two strips out of it length wise, so you'd probably just cut it down the middle lengthwise in reality!

the medium and hard will be wider, so after rolling or hammering it thinner, you would get about 3 to five thin strips.

Boo
22-10-2009, 11:19 AM
I knew there was something I wanted to follow up on. I ran out of cut solder yesterday, so tried this technique and it worked a treat - thank you. I hadn't been using snips previously - so the idea of cutting narrow strips lengthwise had never even occurred to me.

I hammered my medium solder as thin as I could (started 0.7 x 1.5mm) without deafening my neighbour - about an inch or so at a time and then snipped it lengthways - managed 4 strips out of one length - 2 or 3 the rest.

One of the problems I've had in the past is that when you chop it small, it can fly off at speed and impale itself in flesh, I've drawn blood a few times - the shards are like razor blades.

So I put the snips and solder strips inside a large clear plastic bag and held the end of the solder from the outside through the plastic and snipped away at the strips. I just jiggled the little bits to a corner and tipped them out. The sizes came out a little random and variable - which is ideal - I can choose the right amount for each task. I tend to ball it before placement usually anyway - I find it easier to judge the total solder volume from a uniform sphere. I melt several at a time and choose the one I want.

Thanks for the help - I'll be happy if I can save some clean up time for excess solder.

jetlag
22-10-2009, 07:00 PM
So the smaller, the better? Makes sense really, I guess, as it will flow sooner?

Boo
22-10-2009, 08:30 PM
The purpose of the solder is to cause the two sides of the join to adhere to each other - not to 'glue' them together by filling the gap between them. To get a really good strong clean join, the bulk of your work is in preparing the surfaces. You shouldn't be able to see any daylight through them - the physical join should be as tight as it can be before soldering. If I put the piece down and then can't find where the join is, I know I did a reasonably good job. The solder runs between the surfaces of the join by capillary action, it won't flow into an open space between them.

If you prepare the join right, you actually then need very little solder to make a good connection - it should only be a hairs breadth of visible of solder when done. If you use too much, it flows over the outer surface or clumps around the join - which then needs cleaning off.

So it's always better to do the work beforehand preparing your piece with a really clean flush join and using just enough solder, rather than on clean up afterwards.

amazingbabe
22-10-2009, 08:42 PM
Why does'nt everyone use solder paste ?? i think its the bees knees !!! Am i missing something with this solder pallion cutting game?? Is it just a preference thing ?? :confused: :)

Boo
22-10-2009, 08:52 PM
I'm going to try paste when funds allow (I've asked about it here for this reason) - but the difference in price is considerable - and it's somewhere I can save a little on outlay in difficult times. I can buy enough silver for several pieces for the price of one tube of paste.

amazingbabe
22-10-2009, 08:55 PM
I personally could'nt imagine using anything else boo, i know the price is higher but it last for ages and is much much quicker xx:~:

Boo
22-10-2009, 09:06 PM
I don't doubt it's value - in terms of how far it goes and the potential time saving when working - but I just can't justify the initial outlay at the moment - my husband has been out of work earlier this year, so I'm having to work frugally just now.

jetlag
22-10-2009, 09:39 PM
The purpose of the solder is to cause the two sides of the join to adhere to each other - not to 'glue' them together by filling the gap between them. To get a really good strong clean join, the bulk of your work is in preparing the surfaces. You shouldn't be able to see any daylight through them - the physical join should be as tight as it can be before soldering. If I put the piece down and then can't find where the join is, I know I did a reasonably good job. The solder runs between the surfaces of the join by capillary action, it won't flow into an open space between them.

If you prepare the join right, you actually then need very little solder to make a good connection - it should only be a hairs breadth of visible of solder when done. If you use too much, it flows over the outer surface or clumps around the join - which then needs cleaning off.

So it's always better to do the work beforehand preparing your piece with a really clean flush join and using just enough solder, rather than on clean up afterwards.


That makes sense. Thanks :)

Emerald
22-10-2009, 10:49 PM
I personally could'nt imagine using anything else boo, i know the price is higher but it last for ages and is much much quicker xx:~:

I guess i am old fashioned but i am more than happy with using my pallions of solder and borax its all very well buying stuff that is supposed to help but it dont half increase the price of your items x

mizgeorge
22-10-2009, 11:49 PM
I use both, and I think each has its place. I think paste is fabulous for little fiddly things, but I'm happy with pallions for more conventional stuff - either placed directly or picked.

I don't find the paste that expensive though. I buy smaller syringes than Cookson have (wish they did them too), and they last a long time. It does take a bit of practice to use the very tiny amount you actually need though!

Boo
23-10-2009, 05:30 AM
I didn't say it was 'expensive'. Just that when you've lived a year with no income for over 3 of the months (he lost his job without even being paid for the month he'd just worked), cloth has to be cut accordingly - and it's now really caught up with us. And over 20 quid to buy another form of something I already have that works perfectly well, like the borax in a different format we discussed the other day, is just a luxury beyond the budget at present.

ben b
23-10-2009, 07:24 PM
The difference between solder paste, and using pallions, is really just your own prefference. Probably technicaly best, is to use pallions, and, in antiquity solder itself was just the actual metal alloy but banged so thin, it hopefully melted just before the item did!

Like having a good bench, and an inspiring work atmosphere, most important is what your confident with.

As an apprentice, it took all day just to learn how to cut a pallion, and was perfected, with the pallions getting smaller, over many months of doing.

They will blow off the item as you get the flame near...the secret is, (if you are using a constant temp torch rather than mouth blown) to approach the work really slowly, and use the distance between torch and work to controll the temperature, and just slightly back off its its too hot too quick. You should be able to get the flux to 'warm' and just buble up, slowly and controlled, so it then holds the pallion when the flux glazes, then you can give more heat to melt it into the join.