Taking Credit Cards

[Di Sandland]

I know that sometime ago this issue was discussed on the forum but I can't find hide nor hair of it now.

What do other folk do about taking payment for expensive items? I can neither afford nor justify a merchant account at the moment but as some of my prices are in the £100/£120 area I think its highly unlikely that folk at a fair will be paying in cash!

Keith and I have discussed this bloody issue to the walls and back and still haven't come up with a solution. We have, we think, the following options:



A 20% deposit secures your item type thing, whereby punters who want a particular piece can pay a deposit on the understanding that the balance is payed within 7 days, at which point the item will be mailed/delivered to them
Get a 'dongle' - Keith is convinced you can get devices that will allow you internet connection even where there is no wifi. That we we can take paypal.
Take cheques - but who carries cheque books nowadays?

I know from experience that if a customer can't have what they want 'now' they are unlikely to return. I have lost sales like that in the past (on wood stuff, not jewellery) but I have no reason to suspect that this market is any different.

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated.

[ps_bond]

Get a 'dongle' - Keith is convinced you can get devices that will allow you internet connection even where there is no wifi. That we we can take paypal.

He's correct - there are 3G USB modems (oh alright, dongles) that will allow a laptop to connect to the net. There was a while where 3 were doing a "free" one according to moneysavingexpert; not sure who is doing what right now.

Of course, many modern phones effectively have that built in.

Be aware though - I (and others) might not be terribly keen on keying my Paypal password into someone else's PC... ;)

[Di Sandland]

Be aware though - I (and others) might not be terribly keen on keying my Paypal password into someone else's PC... ;)

Yes, that was my instant reaction too.

As for the word dongle - don't know what got into him. Until he retired he was a computer professional - his standards are obviously slipping into senility along with the rest of the poor old bugger ;)

[Kalorlo]

Yeah, there are things like these laptop dongles (http://www.mobilephone-deal.com/dongle/laptop/) that let you access the internet via whichever mobile phone operator you get a plan with. (That was just the first result Google gave me - Orange's website for example has more details in its mobile broadband FAQ). Same as a mobile, it does require you to be somewhere that has coverage.

ETA: Also, I specifically took my chequebook with me to the Harrow fair because there was a 'Don't forget cheques!'-type notice on the flier that reminded people that not all the sellers take cards. Which was handy.

[Di Sandland]

ETA: Also, I specifically took my chequebook with me to the Harrow fair because there was a 'Don't forget cheques!'-type notice on the flier that reminded people that not all the sellers take cards. Which was handy.

thanks for that. The don't forget cheques notice is a good idea. Might suggest that to the organisers.

[pauljoels]

Have you thought of picking up any market trader magazines and seeing what they recommend? They must have the same issues, and I know that certain companies have tried to push credit card services towards them.

Some people prefer paypal others don't like the idea at all. Another variant on Paypal is Google's Checkout (I think that's what it is called) and I think there are now ways you can take payment via a mobile phone - Google it, but I'm not sure how many customers would trust it...

[mizgeorge]

There are a couple of really good ways of taking card payments via a mobile phone (much cheaper than buying a terminal), one from adelante (mobile pos) and the other using an apple iphone app and paypal. However, both require a merchant account, the first with a bank, the other with paypal, and you're then locked into quite significant charges for the rest of eternity. Which is fine if you're processing a lot of payments, but not so good if you just do occasional events. I'm lucky in having been use a friend's system a few times, but wouldn't count on it. It does make a huge difference though.

Some craft guilds have terminals they will lend out to members, and there are some short term hire options, but these tend to be very expensive.

I do take cheques, and also make sure I always know where the nearest cashpoints are!

In an age where we all use electronic funds transfer all the time, it always strikes me as rather daft that it's made so difficult for small/sole traders to do so without it being prohibitively expensive.

[Di Sandland]

Cheers George. Yes, its a pain, isn't it. We always had this problem before when we did investigate merchant accounts and the like, which, as you say, were prohibitively expensive.

There's a real gap in the market here for some enterprising banker!

Will reccy the cashpoints one evening. Ho hum

[pauljoels]

Also I guess it depends on which paypal service you are considering.

I've just had a brief look on their site and I have no idea how this compares to other services, but to me seems pretty good to have some piece of mind that you can take c/c payments (although I guess it depends on whether or not you can build in the %'s to your costs). Their Virtual Terminal option. costs as detailed on their site:

"What does it cost?

There are no up-front costs from us. Just a low monthly fee of £20 and a transaction fee of 1.9%-3.4%* plus 20p

Account Fees
Setup Fees None
Monthly Fees £20
Gateway Fees None
Transaction Fees 1.9-3.4%" (https://www.paypal-business.co.uk/virtual-terminal.asp)

Also, this would enable you to take them over the phone/mail order. The customer essentially never knows that it is Paypal you are using. I remember Virgin trains even up until recently swiping my card on one of those blocks to take a copy of all the details on carbon copy paper - it would effectively just be like that.

[Di Sandland]

Thanks for that Paul - it looks interesting. Taking a good look at it now.

:)

[mizgeorge]

The paypal virtual terminal is the same as the one they use for the iphone app, and means having a paypal merchant account - which is a lot more expensive to run than their normal a/c. You also have to make sure you comply with all their rules (distance selling regs, returns, full address on website etc etc).

That said, I suspect this will be the route I'll go down before too long.

[Di Sandland]

Yes, I just read through it George and, you're right, its a merchant account - albeit a little less stringent in the setting up process than the usual ones.

Not for this time but something to think about for the future.

[Petal]

Are you a member of the NMTF? I'm sure I saw something in their mag about using one of their credit card thingies inexpensively at events. Is this for the NT event soon? Have you asked them if they will be 'lending' it to stallholders for no extra charge ? (If you don't ask, you don't get - ask anyway and you never know, they might be willing to do something for you and the other traders at the event?).

BTW, I found the threads you were looking for here, but you may have already have had your questions answered ... just in case you haven't, here they are:-


http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/how-market-my-jewellery/406-taking-credit-card-payments.html

http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/business-marketing-jewellery-industry/464-taking-credit-card-payments.html

Let us know how you get on Di.

Love

[Di Sandland]

Cheers Petal - I emailed the event organiser (yes the NT event) at about 4 o'clock but she's out of the office today, back tomorrow. She's usually extremely helpful, so we'll wait and see what she says.

I just think this is an issue that effects all of us and, as George says, its a nonsense really that small businesses are not covered and, therefore, miss out on opportunities.

x

[Boo]

This is a problem I have and I know I've lost sales because I couldn't take cards at fairs and something I'm interested to learn more about, hence follwoing the thread rather than contributing anything useful.

FWIW - the mobile broadband dongles work great - that's how I'm here now - in a caravan in very rural Cumbria, on my netbook. You're reliant on there being a good signal where you are - and inside buildings the structure can interfere with it, but I pay under £15 a month for a 15GB mobile broadband account - I don't even get close to using my allowance. I use mine here with a powered wireless router which has my dongle in it near the window where there is a strong signal and my netbook just latches onto the wireless signal.

[Di Sandland]

Hi Boo - keep on enjoying that holiday!

It seems this credit card thing is a real problem, eh?

[Ominicci]

...watching with interest....:popcorn:

[EmmaRose]

:yeah: on going problem this one....some venues/ shows offer a central card point now and you pay a percentage fee per sale to them, this works best. Otherwise it is a terrible problem. Small retailers used to be fine with the little manual swipe machine. My old company gave up c.c. when they phased them out as the charges for new machines/ rental etc couldn't be justified....
Em

[Di Sandland]

Well, just as a matter of interest, here is the response from the event manager:


The nearest cashpoint really is Barnstaple. You could always take a name and address and card details then ask them to post a cheque? Then you've got details that you could use to buy things on the internet with if they don't pay up!?


Okay, so at least she has a sense of humour

[caroleallen]

I bit the bullet several years ago and signed up with Adelante to use their mobilepos system which worked fairly well but meant I still had to swipe people's cards in the old-fashioned way to give them a receipt. I've now got a mobile terminal from Adelante which is much easier to use.

I've also got a "dongle" but got myself into difficulty with taking card details at a show once when I charged the wrong amount and then couldn't work out how to give a refund, which was really embarrassing.

[kymbi]

I've taken credit cards via a mobile chip n pin for about 3 years now. It was a difficult decision due to the costs and need to set up a merchant account, but I got some reductions being a NMTF member.

While I was doing the odd craft fair, I didn't see the need and used the cash-cashpoint-cheque-deposit routes mentioned here. Then I moved to working & selling regularly, 2 days each week at Greenwich craft market, and after a year I realised that many tourists didn't carry too much currency or cheque books with them, so I made the leap. It has been useful, especially at christmas (and mother's day), and seems to encourage some add-on/spontaneous purchasing. I think it has also helped on the credibility front as a market trader because my business contact details are stamped on the terminal printouts receipts, which back up the business cards that I give with the purchases.

From the costs shown on the post for the Paypal option, it looks as though my mobile terminal costs me around £8 per month more, but I've been very happy with the service and terminal from Streamline & 123 Send.

[agent_44]

When I was selling before the runaway husband incident I joined the FSB, and used their discount on getting a Chip & Pin terminal. When I stopped selling because of all the changes in my life that ensued with the divorce etc, I was stuck with it because it came with quite a lengthy contract. Glad I still have it now though and hopefully will get to use it again soon ;) It's the same as Kymbi's and costs me £60 per quarter plus transaction fees from Streamline.

[Di Sandland]

Okay, so those of you with these agreements - Heather and Lucinda off the top of my head - what would your advice be to somebody like me. Just to help you:



I'm trying to build and grow a business
I anticipate doing around 6 fairs a year at the moment
I'm not destitute but funds are limited

There's no right or wrong answers guys - I'm just trying to work out the best way forward for me.

[agent_44]

Assuming your terminal cost the same as mine with 6 shows a year that would be £40 a show to have the terminal BUT you can also use it to take payments by credit card over the phone for your website. When I got my terminal I found most people were paying by card so it was something my customers obviously wanted an I think encouraged more spontaneous purchases, and some larger purchases too. I would say if you can afford to do it, go for it, but it will probably be far more cost effective for you to join someone like the FSB or NFMT and do it through them, so there is the fee to join twhich ever organisation to consider. I think the BJA also do a cterminal rental offer aswell.

[kymbi]

To be honest Di, given the outline of your current state of play, I would (probably) not go down the mobile terminal route unless the craft events you are doing are big ones with muchos-money involved. Yes, they are useful but you are also tied into a contract that will cost close to £30pm (for a minimum of 12 months, but often 3 years) + transaction charges, so will add another £55-60 onto the cost of each craft fair.

Before I had my mobile machine, I used to have a sign to let customers know they could leave a deposit (non-returnable) to secure an item, with the balance paid by cheque, cash or Paypal within 7 days, then I would post the jewellery to them, or they could collect it from me. This, along with good-old hard cash or cheque seemed to cover most eventualities. If I hadn't been working regularly in an main tourist area with a lot of overseas visitors, I'm not sure I would have got my credit card machine.

[Di Sandland]

Thanks for that, both of you.

Kym, that is probably the road I intend to go down. I do live in a tourist area but its not grockel time at the moment!

The majority of my pieces are based on local scenes and history so as I get more established I'm hoping to get listed in places like Arlington (who have already expressed an interest). Perhaps then, with that type of exposure, it might be worth it.

I'm aiming for the stars, so that I might achieve the world ;)

[snow_imp]

I'm aiming for the stars, so that I might achieve the world ;)

Hm, I had a 'witty quip' ready in response to your comment - but it's gone now!

Ah, memory - I used to have one.

In the meantime, good luck with your plans and aims.

[agent_44]

Thanks for that, both of you.

Kym, that is probably the road I intend to go down. I do live in a tourist area but its not grockel time at the moment!

The majority of my pieces are based on local scenes and history so as I get more established I'm hoping to get listed in places like Arlington (who have already expressed an interest). Perhaps then, with that type of exposure, it might be worth it.

I'm aiming for the stars, so that I might achieve the world ;)

Sounds like a good decision. If I didn't already have one I am not sure that I would be getting one just yet.

Out of interest, what's Arlington?

[Di Sandland]

This is Arlington (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-arlingtoncourt);)

[agent_44]

Oh lovely Di, looks liek a fab place :)

[Ominicci]

It is very possible that I may be down to see you at Arlington Di! I will be taking my grandmother home to Westward Ho! the Thursday before and going home on the following Tuesday. IF we have bought her a Fridge Freezer on the Friday or Sat then we will be free on the Sunday :Y:

[Di Sandland]

Yay, Nicci, that would be brilliant!