Ethic

[anna_ip]

I would like to have a thread about ethic/green/fair-trade/ecologic.
Where to find ethic metall supplier, tips how to make your workshop more green, to discuss things that happened in the mining buisness etc.?!

[mochiandmocha]

Mocha and I DEFINITELTY agree on this one! And that could include how you can make sure that no animal products have been used, etc. (we're vegans, so we make our jewellery vegan, too!)
Good one, anna-ip!! ^_^

[Solunar Silver Studio]

I'd love to know what vegan jewellery is! I've racked my brains (or rather poked my flaccid little brain cell :D) and just can't come up with anything....:confused:

[mochiandmocha]

Well...vegan jewellery is just like vegan chocolate, or vegan clothes, or vegan shoes: made without using animal products ^_^
For shoes, we tend to go for the recycled car tyre (more and more popular on vegan shoes websites) instead of leather; for chocolate, well... it's so much healthier with no animal fat; and for jewellery we just make sure that we don't use things like leather/wool etc in our workshop!^_^ And since we ourselves don't eat or use animal products in our personal lives, our jewellery is vegan!

Seriously, being vegan is a major step that people can take to help the environment. Without trying to do any propaganda, I think anyone interested should go have a look at the vegan society website as it clearly explains why eating animals has such a devastating impact on our planet...
Home - Vegan Society (http://www.vegansociety.com/home.php)

Animal Aid's website is also great:
Animal Aid: Veggie & Vegan (http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/vegetarianism/ALL///)

I hope this answers your question!:)
See ya!

[geti-titanium]

For shoes, we tend to go for the recycled car tyre

Aren't car tyres made from rubber, which is made from oil, which is made over millions of years from tiny plants and animals, called plankton?

[Green Monster]

going to get some popcorn, a fizzy drink, and a comfy seat......................ok, go for it

[Jayne]

Aren't car tyres made from rubber, which is made from oil, which is made over millions of years from tiny plants and animals, called plankton?

yeah, but, we don't care about plankton cos it doesn't have fluffy wuffy fur & big eyes.
I mean, when was the last time that you went to the animal rescue centre to find a jar of plankton waiting for adoption????? ;)
J x

[mochiandmocha]

Ok...right..you've decided to take it this way... well..
When you're a vegan the point is that you try to do your very best to avoid animal products, but you'll always have people telling you things like "how do you know carrots don't have feelings?". Now, with all due respect, that isn't very constructive I think...

The fact is that you can live a very healthy life without eating or using products or byproducts that involve the exploitation of animals by humans (such as meat/fish/poultry/honey/wool/leather....the list is long) and make a huge difference for the planet and it's people, too (animal farming is responsible for 18% of all greenhouse emissions -more than the entire transport sector / fast-shrinking rainforest are being cut down for cattle pasture or to grow crops for animal feed- NOT to feed people -and there are a lot of hungry people on our planet..)
you couldn't be very healthy if you wanted to avoid plants, too...so the whole philosophy behind veganism really is to do as much as you can.

I think rubber wouldn't count as a product from the exploitation of animals really...

Sorry geti-titanium if I took this too seriously... it's just that I don't understand why people would try to make fun of vegans for making genuine efforts for the environment...

Now you can always go further and take an extra step of course (for example I never buy flowers because I hate the idea of producing them industrially and all the waste there is, which eventually -to me- looks like a lack of respect for nature's creations), but that's more personal ethics/religion than pure veganism. I think avoiding rubber would fall into that category, but I've not reached that stage yet! ^_^

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Ah! I'm not a great fan of polishing - so I didn't think about wool and leather polishing wheels...mind you - I have my leather sand bag in full view so I don't know why I didn't think of that...! I suppose it is just the way you view things.

I have insulated my workshop with wool insulation simply because I considered it to be less of a polluting product than synthetic, chemical based foams and fibres. I also have big problems with skin reactions to a lot of chemicals so tend to steer clear of them wherever possible. That's one of the reasons why I like working with fine silver - there is no need for solder or pickle...although I have had to dig it out now for occasional use with Argentium!

I view it that so long as every one is aware of the consequences of our actions and is willing to do something to improve our impact on the earth systems then that is a step forward. Everything we do in our modern lives is having an impact on something ecologically speaking...and we can't possibly cover everything!! Some people just feel more able to make massive life changes than others....and everyone should be encouraged to do what ever little bit they can.

[agent_44]

I am quite concerned with Animal Rights and the Environment although I know I need to and plan to do more. I do take the attitude that doing something is better than doing nothing though, if you're vegan and use rubber (especially if it is recyclued) then you are doing a hell of a lot more than your average person who maybe just recycles rubbish and might, on occasion by organic produce. So Geti, you're just being picky and awkward in my book! It reminds me of when I was younger, I went Vegetarian but my mother insisted on my having leather shoes, and I was criticised for that, but I was doing my best at the time.

I do try and pick more environmentally frined ly ways of doing things with my jewellery and try to avoid animal products (well, slaughtered animal products). My rawhide mallet really pees me off because I couldn't ffind a death free alternative!

There is a flip side to this though, that Barbara touched on, in that vegans I have met use synthetic and plastic alternatives to animal products which are far more costly to the environment than their animal based counterparts.

[geti-titanium]

So Geti, you're just being picky and awkward in my book!

Possibly - but that's just me. I try to see both sides of any argument and as I see it, however good your intentions are, whatever you do, something or someone is being exploited.

Shoes made from recycled rubber may be saving animals from being exploited, but are those same shoes being made in the Asia or the Far East in sweatshop conditions by a 12 yr old kid for a bowl of rice a day? How much energy has been used to recycle those tyres adding to greenhouse gasses.

At the end of the day we're all going to die and the planet is going to blow up.

NB. I may or may not necessariliy agree or disagree with anything I write as I could be just saying things to encourage healthy debate. It would be a rubbish forum if we all agreed with each other. :-"

[agent_44]

Possibly - but that's just me. I try to see both sides of any argument and as I see it, however good your intentions are, whatever you do, something or someone is being exploited.

Shoes made from recycled rubber may be saving animals from being exploited, but are those same shoes being made in the Asia or the Far East in sweatshop conditions by a 12 yr old kid for a bowl of rice a day? How much energy has been used to recycle those tyres adding to greenhouse gasses.

At the end of the day we're all going to die and the planet is going to blow up.

NB. I may or may not necessariliy agree or disagree with anything I write as I could be just saying things to encourage healthy debate. It would be a rubbish forum if we all agreed with each other. :-"

Yes I agree with the something somewhere point, but doing something as long as you are well researched is better than doing nothing.

And your second point that was what I meant about using synthetic alternatives, I got annoyed with a Vegan girl who I met at a friends wedding who claimed to be 'plastic shoes, the lot'. Pointing out that by doing this would contirbute to all the animals she was 'saving' and us having no planet to live on one day didn't go down well, nor did the information that the Red Wine she was guzzilng had cow derived products in it, lol!

My ethos is to not to commit to a way of life, but to make informed choices in the things that I do. For example, I prefer organic food for the quality and environmental impact, try to buy local and soon to be *trying* to grow my own, and when it comes to meat I am very picky about sources and have found a company who's quality and welfare standards are very good, far exceeding that of free range or organic. But it's more expensive, I guess more of a realistic price. Bearing that in mind I don't buy a huge amount of meat, and do it a lot of vegetarian or vegan things.

[geti-titanium]

I think that the only way to save the planet and animals is to get rid of all the humans - problem solved :-O

[agent_44]

I think that the only way to save the planet and animals is to get rid of all the humans - problem solved :-O

I 100% agree with you there! The world woudl be a much better place without us!=:-O

[Jayne]

I'm going to go and live with the Amish. Nothing to do with animals, I just never got on with buttons.
J x

[Petal]

We've certainly made a mess of it so far, that's for sure! :">I think there's a lot of mis-information about where products in the jewellery industry come from and what is genuine sterling silver/gold etc or not. The jewellery industry is difficult in that it takes an awful lot of mining to produce tiny amounts of metal and the conditions that the workers are working in are awful... Its a real dilemma between buying something at a fair price that has been produced fairly in reasonable conditions.

Personally, we re-use and recycle as much as we can, grow all our own food and only eat what is in season, eat very little meat and don't miss it and care very much about the planet we live on. I re-use my jewellery components as much as I can and offer to re-use customers old jewellery and I repair broken jewellery for charity shops for free too. For me, doing nothing is not an option, doing the most I can, is. I get a little bit of pleasure from shredding the morning post (junk mail) and putting it into the compost bin - now THAT feels very good. :D

[geti-titanium]

I'm going to go and live with the Amish. Nothing to do with animals, I just never got on with buttons.

I was going to live with the Amish until I discovered that their broadband consisted of plastic cups on the ends of pieces of string and the nearest thing to a computer was an abacus :D

[Petal]

Sounds like a pretty good life to me.....

[Jayne]

I was going to live with the Amish until I discovered that their broadband consisted of plastic cups on the ends of pieces of string

Plastic cups =:-O that's outrageous. They must have been the fake Amish, like the fake 'Links of London' websites you hear about!
In my glossy brochure entitled 'Amish - Come Live With Us - (no sense of humour but it's a button free zone and your Mum won't be able to ring you)' it clearly showed clay cups on the ends of pieces of string
J x

[Di Sandland]

You lot are bloody mad and need locking up :D

[geti-titanium]

I'm sorry Jayne, you brochure is clearly out of date - At the risk of looking more sadder than I already do, I did a little research before posting and on this Amish recipe site they do in fact use plastic. :-p


It is very important to use plastic or wooden utensils and plastic or glass containers when making this. Do not use metal at all!

Big, Bold, Beautiful Food: Amish Friendship Bread (http://bigboldbeautifulfood.blogspot.com/2009/05/amish-friendship-bread.html)

[geti-titanium]

You lot are bloody mad and need locking up

There's always room for one more Di in this alternate universe, come join us :-D

[Petal]

You lot are bloody mad and need locking up :D



Oh, I was having a silly half-hour really :-D

[Di Sandland]

There's always room for one more Di in this alternate universe, come join us :-D
Nah, Alan, I prefer being the solitary lifeform in my own universe. Nobody to argue with me.

[mochiandmocha]

Woah! What a lively topic! Mocha and I agree with the idea that you cannot not hurt the planet. Humans are too many, that's definitely the case, too, (and also one of the many reasons why we don't want kids^_^!)
anyway, every little bit helps, but it's also good to push oneself once in a while rather than focus on what we already do.

I'll leave you to that and Mocha and I are gonna make a start on the massive VEGAN chocolate hamper that we got as a leaving present in our schools today (yes! we're officially full-time jewellery makers now and this feels good!)
;)

[geti-titanium]

I mean, when was the last time that you went to the animal rescue centre to find a jar of plankton waiting for adoption?????

Some of my best friends are plankton [:-)

[geti-titanium]

I don't know why, that just sounded funny

[Di Sandland]

I don't know why, that just sounded funny

I don't know why either, Alan.

[geti-titanium]

OOOh! All the comediennes are out in force tonight I see :)

[agent_44]

Some of my best friends are plankton [:-)

LOL!

Personally I would like to go live in a Yurt in a field, with a herd of goats or something, but I haven't thought it through properly.

[Jayne]

[QUOTE=geti-titanium;16600]I'm sorry Jayne, you brochure is clearly out of date - At the risk of looking more sadder than I already do, I did a little research before posting and on this Amish recipe site they do in fact use plastic. :-p

okay matey peeps, it ain't an 'Amish recipe site'. It's a middle class mom american recipe site that happens to have a recipe for something called 'Amish friendship bread'. If it were an Amish website (spotted the mistake???) the recipe wouldn't be called 'Amish' friendship bread, it would simply be called 'friendship bread'.

[Jayne]

I'm sorry Jayne, you brochure is clearly out of date - At the risk of looking more sadder than I already do, I did a little research before posting and on this Amish recipe site they do in fact use plastic

Oh, and another thing.......you have me sadder than you because I have ended up typing things into my search engine like 'Amish kitchenware'. Sadder than sad :(
On the other hand, I did come across the headline 'Allegations of neglect at Amish puppy mills' which kind of made it worthwhile. I mean, how desperate would you have to be for a bag of flour?? ;)
J x

[The Dragon]

Do you know what - I really love you guys. You can take any subject, be serious & silly and occasionally verging on the pesonal. But you all take it in the spirit it is ment in, give as good as you get and don't take offence. Do you think I could adopt you all as honoury family, all of mine (except the OH) have passed on to better things so I'm now free to choose who I want.

[[]]

[Petal]

I just love it. I can always guarantee a laugh on this forum with everyone, that's what makes it so special.

[Solunar Silver Studio]

:XAwww...[[]]...group hugs peeps!!:X

[Emerald]

and i dont think anna ip has ever been back and i doubt she ever will:rofl:x

[Jayne]

Don't know why :-"
[[]]
J x

[geti-titanium]

She doesn't know what she's missing - or she might have been abducted by aliens of course!

[Jayne]

She doesn't know what she's missing - or she might have been abducted by aliens of course!

So, aliens, d'u think they'd be good or bad for the environment?
hey, hey, hey!!!!! we're back on topic!!! ;)
J x

[geti-titanium]

So, aliens, d'u think they'd be good or bad for the environment?

Bad I'd say - if they've bothered to come this far they have obviously messed up their own planet and are looking for another one to destroy or to steal all our tyres for shoes.

That's a thought - I bet it was aliens who jacked up my car and left it on bricks back in the summer of '76 - little green bu***rs!!

[Jayne]

yr not thinking cute and magical like ET then?
hey, if you had ET on board you wouldn't need wheels cos he could make it fly 0:-)
J x

[geti-titanium]

yr not thinking cute and magical like ET then?

No - thousands of ETs with their massive feet would seriously deplete the tyre supplies in no time - you can almost hear the screams of the plankton as they are thrown into the oil pots and then the whales would starve - Japanese fishermen would go out of business causing all of our best scientific and technological minds to be forced back home to the UK due to the collapse of manufacturing in the Far East and so restoring harmony to the European jewellery manufacturing base.

What's that bright light outside my window? I'll just nip out and see - I may be gone for some time :D

[geti-titanium]

This thread has totally lost the plot - as have I, I feel <:)-

[Jayne]

No - thousands of ETs with their massive feet would seriously deplete the tyre supplies in no time - you can almost hear the screams of the plankton as they are thrown into the oil pots and then the whales would starve - Japanese fishermen would go out of business causing all of our best scientific and technological minds to be forced back home to the UK due to the collapse of manufacturing in the Far East and so restoring harmony to the European jewellery manufacturing base.


.....which would mean an eventual reduction in long haul foreign air travel, no need for expansion at heathrow, reduced CO2 emissions.....just a shortage of tyre swings in kids playgrounds. But, hey, I'm sure they're a H&S hazard so prob a good thing :)
All good for the environment & general wellbeing of the human race.
There - back on topic, whatcha worried about? ;)
J x

[geti-titanium]

I think I've forgotten what the topic was now - something about vegans destroying the planet with their demand for synthetics and fetish for rubber - It must be time for bed now, I've got to be up at 6 am to be a sensible businessman again for the day I-) goodnight folks!

[Di Sandland]

I think Jayne just out-Getied Geti =:-O

[geti-titanium]

I think Jayne just out-Getied Geti

She is truly a formidable opponent :Y:

[Jayne]

She is truly a formidable opponent :Y:

No, sorry, I have to confess that I wussed out and went to bed at 11.47.....:-"........left yer high & dry. At 12.04 I was having weird dreams about painting butterfy wings with borax.
I've been a cad and a bounder and I'm truly sorry :(
J x

[Di Sandland]

Ooh, no Jayne, don't be sorry. I enjoyed every caddish word and spent a lot of time wishing that my mind was so inventive. Truly.

[Jayne]

Ooh, no Jayne, don't be sorry. I enjoyed every caddish word and spent a lot of time wishing that my mind was so inventive. Truly.

That's very generous of you Di :) What you would call inventive, however, some of my friends have described as 'twisted'........
it's a fine line ;)
J x

[Petal]

I enjoyed it very much too...

[MuranoSilver]

:rofl:
Oh my goodness this thread has made me cry (in a good way)
I'm off to buy some Rubber shoes
Hmmm wonder if the aliens are reading this thread =:-O
*adjusts tinfoil hat*
http://www.muranosilver.com/images/tinfoilhat.jpg
Nic xx

[Jayne]

Is that your cat, Nic?
Do you draw jewellery on it's fur in permanent marker as well?
J x
(bizarre when you think that this thread started off about animal welfare lol):rofl:

[MuranoSilver]

Nope not my cat but you can find lots of pictures like it on Lolcats ‘n’ Funny Pictures of Cats – I Can Has Cheezburger? (http://icanhascheezburger.com/)
Nic x

[bustagasket]

i guess its true when they say that great artists border on insanity :D [[]]

[Pandanimal]

I go away for a week and come back to 7, yes, count them, 7 pages of new posts and then find that you have all totally lost the plot! Where am I gona go now for sensible advice on how to be a green ethical jeweller?

[Jayne]

I go away for a week and come back to 7, yes, count them, 7 pages of new posts and then find that you have all totally lost the plot! Where am I gona go now for sensible advice on how to be a green ethical jeweller?

just steer clear of the plankton, baby ;)
J x

[anna_ip]

Oh my...... I guess this forum is not ready for this topic yet!

[geti-titanium]

Oh my...... I guess this forum is not ready for this topic yet!

I think you might be right - Jayne does tend to wander off the thread a little sometimes :)

[Jayne]

Oh my! Has someone been a bad dog?[-X
J x

[geti-titanium]

I new you'd catch me - I didn't think it would be that quick though :dance:

[Jayne]

ur lucky I don't rub your nose in it........
now go to your basket

[geti-titanium]

slinks off with tail between legs and a cursory backwards glance with puppy dog eyes looking for forgiveness (or a chicken leg!) :-"

[Jayne]

Quorn on the menu tonight.......
Enjoy :)

[geti-titanium]

Can I have extra mouse droppings in mine?

[Jayne]

grated, sauteed or julienned?
J x

[geti-titanium]

I don't mind as long as you sprinkle a few extra organic herbs in as well (which brings us craftily back on to the theme of the thread! almost!) :X

[Jayne]

oh yeah! I 4got......no mouse droppings - they're not vegan ;)

[geti-titanium]

thwarted again!:(|

[Emerald]

well it started off ok Anna but then geti got involved and between him Jayne and a few others :-" it got totally :threadjacked: sorry we do try xx

[Jayne]

I've turned off my pickling unit :D

[SilverBlueberry]

I've thought about this too. So far I've bought stones from anywhere but it doesn't always feel right. I don't know anything about where they come from.

I did read somewhere that metal clay is recycled silver. Don't know if it's true but I want it to be!

I would also like to have recycled jewelry boxes but I can't find them easily in Sweden.

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Ooooo - you're going to like this!!! Recycled Fine Silver - Is Your Jewelry Green? (http://ezinearticles.com/?Recycled-Fine-Silver---Is-Your-Jewelry-Green?&id=1036543)

[ps_bond]

If you want to be environmentally sound, don't make jewellery at all.

Seriously.

Recycled metals require a variety of chemicals to refine and reuse them - not least of which are conc. nitric and hydrochloric acids, all with their own disposal problems. Yes, the gold mines use cyanide for leaching - but cyanide is naturally occurring, nitric acid isn't.

Pickling with citric acid because it's natural; great - but you're creating copper citrate instead of sulphate. Not a good compound to have knocking around in environmental terms (although I'd point out that sulphurous acid is another naturally occurring one, so the citric being natural is a bit of a red herring).

Gems - well, they're all exploiting the natural world, aren't they? And it's no use saying "oh, but these are reused" - by using them you're encouraging the trade in gemstones, be they mined or recycled. Lab grown - another "nasty" industrial process...

All soldering torches - either they use hydrocarbon gases producing CO2 or (in the case of the water torches) electricity, predominantly from inefficient power stations. What about the manufacturing processes for the other tools?

All of these things require transportation.

What does that leave? Wood? So long as you've dealt with harvesting it yourself...?

Fundamentally, if you're here, you're affecting the environment. There's only one way to improve that.

Frankly, I'm more than a bit tired of superficial claims of "eco-friendly" being made to justify some blinkered stance - "electric cars" (appalling environmental costs in manufacturing, refuelled by coal power stations); "energy saving lightbulbs" (with more mercury in them than the banned thermometers had); recycling waste (which gets shipped half the world away to be burned in an environmental disaster) - and as for this asinine "carbon tax" drivel... Well. The only relevant word there is "tax".

Make your choices from an informed standpoint. To thine own self be true, but don't take a holier-than-thou attitude about it.

</cynic> </rant> :rolleyes:

[anna_ip]

is is a box company that sell recycled boxes in UK. tinyboxcompany.co.uk

[SilverBlueberry]

Peter, I sort of agree with you, but there are many things that Can become better. Maybe large companies that buy gemstones directly from mines could use their money power to improve working conditions in the mines. I would be much happier buying gemstones that are fair trade, than being in the dark about everything around their production.

Many chemicals used in the precious metals industry can be recycled, and the waste doesn't need to be huge. It's just sad that there is so little fair trade and/or environmental movement in the jewelry world.

[SilverBlueberry]

Tinybox: nice but I don't see any shipping beyond the UK. Sigh.

[mochiandmocha]

Advospovap, is that "hey" of yours
-organic?
-fairtrade?
-cruelty-free?
-are the h, e and y post-consumer recycled, i.e copied and pasted from an old email?

If that's the case yup, you're in the right section! Welcome on the forum!