Missed Opportunity?

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Hi Cooksons peeps!

I was thinking of taking advantage of your freepost and ordering up various bits of Argentium to have a play with... I have had a flick through the on line Argentium pages and got thoroughly disenchanted...:N:

As you are the only supplier we are likely to deal with...the only one in the UK...and as Argentium is so new and so different to work and everybody wants information about it...why haven't you got any information about the Argentium products you stock?? If I read once more that "Argentium Silver is harder than traditional sterling silver, meaning more durable jewellery and silverware...", I may do a mischief to my computer screen!!:pc: Where is your enthusiasm for your new Magic product?? I know you have technical information somewhere - but even that doesn't seem to have a one click link access...and when you get there it is just that ...technical!

As you have a dedicated section to Argentium, and you are trying to promote the product, couldn't you make that bit just a bit more informative and fun with the descriptions...hints and tips wise.. (Not all your customers who might buy Argentium are necessarily very experienced silver/goldsmiths...look on the forum - we are constantly asking each other what is recommended for 'this and that':confused: - and that is for well known and understood sterling and copper!!)

Examples of the sort of thing I mean are... What flux is recommended with the Argentium solder? Best solder to use to prevent sagging accidents? What to pickle in? What size holes are in the beads? Suggested uses for wire thicknesses...earwires?...bracelets? Since Argentium is so much stronger - how low can you go...what could you knit/crochet with and still maintain a shape? Maximum and minimum dimentions for a piece of sheet....etc, etc... And why not make a feature of your Multi-buy Discounts...I've totally missed that chart in the past!!

And you could put an active link from the solders to the soldering tips for Argentium in your knowledgebase. And a general active link to the Argentium Article Search Results at the end of each item description.

It would certainly make the Argentium buying process more interesting and helpful...and less soul destroying!!

Anyway...I'm off to do battle again and pop a few things in my basket.... You haven't totally put me off!!! ...and I love you really!! :-D

[MuranoSilver]

I made three Argentium rings last night...ooohh this stuff is NIIIIICE :Y:

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Go on then...spill!! What did you use...wire?...sheet? What solder did you use? What flux? Tell me...tell me do!![-o<

...and where's the piccies??:dontknow:

...you know :wwopics: :-D

[MuranoSilver]

They're just some simple understated band rings (to see how it worked or how it worked for me ;))
I used D-band wire 3.2 x 1.6mm with easy paste solder. Arranged them into a D shape for soldering then heated until the solder melted.
Waited a few seconds for the ring to cool (loved watching the germanium "skin" forming) then quenched them in water.
I didn't pickle them but just flattened the solder seam. MAR-vel-OUS!!

After that I bashed them round with a hide mallet and textured one with a fretz hammer.
I left my favourite ball pein at the shop last night so I'll be giving that one a hammered finish later today.

Here's the pics straight out of the tumbler.
http://www.muranosilver.com/images/argentium-rings.jpg
http://www.muranosilver.com/images/argentium-rings2.jpg

I found the metal a bit stiffer than sterling but apart from that and the less red colour it reached when soldering,
similar to work with. I'll let you know as testing progresses. Need to buy some more wire and sheet to experiment with.
Next plan is to see how it solders to fine silver AND mixed metals like bronze, copper & gold.

Nic x

[Solunar Silver Studio]

They look great!

Caroleallen just left a post on another thread saying she is having trouble getting her Argentium... Is there problems with getting it from Cooksons as far as you know? I'd hate to go through all the agonising, penny counting antics I go through before I buy only to find it's not in stock, like...forever!!:'(

D wire is definitely going into the basket though!!:Y:

[Solunar Silver Studio]

I've just noticed...you are not using the Argentium solder then?? Any reason why??

[Emerald]

will deffinately be buying sheet if there is no FIRESTAIN i hate firestain

[Di Sandland]

Firestain is a bugger ain't it. Which gives rise to a probably very stupid question.

If you can't solder all your bits until the piece is complete just how do you get rid of the firestain? You can't put semi-preciouses in pickle can you?

[Emerald]

Firestain comes from heating the metal the different components used to make silver rise to the surface (i am digging deep here into i very inadequate memory bank so feel free to jump in anytime) and cause the metal to darken and then when you buff or polish the surface is removed and leaves the brighter silver underneath but if you then have fiddly bits these are left with the firestain, the only way to remove is to buff with emery and polish :)

oh and yes Di you can put semi's in pickle well i do[-o<

[MuranoSilver]

I've just noticed...you are not using the Argentium solder then?? Any reason why??

I didn't have any in my solder collection & didn't realise it exhisted until I already had the wire :">
With the bashing I gave these rings standard solders appear fine for strength though I guess will show up as slightly darker over time :)
nic xx

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Can you add to Caroleallen's comments about Argentium being out of stock? She says she has been awaiting delivery for some time....

[agent_44]

US people on international forums I belong to have been using Argentim for around 5 years now, I always find it frustrating it takes so long for these things to turn up in the UK!

Anyway - the Argentium site has loads of info: Argentium Silver | Home (http://www.argentiumsilver.com)

You need to register but once you have there's a whole load of technical data etc. Ganoskin and other sites should also have plenty of resource and information too.

[Solunar Silver Studio]

I know Argentium info is out there.... I came across a useful site this morning by Cynthia Eid..Cynthia Eid - article for Society of North American Goldsmiths about Argentium Sterling Silver (http://www.cynthiaeid.com/argentium_6-10.html)

The point I was trying to make is that Cooksons - as the sole UK distributor - could make the whole buying process more interesting and helpful, particularly for the new and less confident people who might look at the products. At the moment, practically everything has the same "The Magic of Argentium Silver...." in its Product Information box - which is fine if you are just looking for one thing...but if you are trying to find out information about sizes and uses, it is really annoying to find nothing else there but this repeated paragraph on one item after another!! Everyone who wants Argentium has to go to Cooksons...they could put a bit more item specific information on the site. They could even become Argentium (UK) Knowledge Central!!

As someone who has not really done much soldering of any kind for 15 years,I would have liked to have had a bit of information about the Argentium solders, and how they perform....what sort of flux should be used etc... That is why I had to start looking at sites in America, because there is just no information here...

Since Cooksons seem to be trying to promote Argentium it is a shame that you can go to the web pages full of excitement at a totally new product and experience on offer and come away not knowing what to buy!

[agent_44]

Oh, I understand that - but just thought the site was worth a mention. I do think that Cooksons and it's customers would benefit from more information on ALL of their products, but at the same time think it would be pointless for them to reproduce reams of already exisiting information.

[caroleallen]

The problem with argentium (apart from not being able to get it very easily Cooksons!) is that they don't stock the solder for it. I managed to get some argentium paste solder from Rio Grande and will use it ONCE I HAVE MY ARGENTIUM!

[agent_44]

The problem with argentium (apart from not being able to get it very easily Cooksons!) is that they don't stock the solder for it. I managed to get some argentium paste solder from Rio Grande and will use it ONCE I HAVE MY ARGENTIUM!

lol! Does sound silly not stocking a proper range like that, and also taking so long to provide the goods!

[MuranoSilver]

The problem with argentium (apart from not being able to get it very easily Cooksons!) is that they don't stock the solder for it. I managed to get some argentium paste solder from Rio Grande and will use it ONCE I HAVE MY ARGENTIUM!

I think they've got it in strip form now (at least that's what I just bought)
but I would prefer to have paste solder
nic x

[pauljoels]

Oh, I understand that - but just thought the site was worth a mention. I do think that Cooksons and it's customers would benefit from more information on ALL of their products, but at the same time think it would be pointless for them to reproduce reams of already exisiting information.


I'm not sure I agree with the repro thing - Cookson's would be doing their customers a bigger benefit because everyone would know where to find everything in one simple source.

I know this is just about the Argentium, but I actually think this point goes for many of their products. When I started silversmithing a couple of years ago I didn't find the Cooksons info terribly useful as there is very little information on products full stop - especially for a novice.

I was doing a stone setting course this summer and there were several established jewellers there who had been in the business for 10-20 years, and even they stated that they found some of the Cooksons info lacking - in general. In some cases it put them off to other suppliers - which I guess is not a problem in the case of Argentium, but it is not an exscuse to be lax in terms of information on a product which you are the only supplier.

Cooksons - think of what you could be doing in terms of advice for all levels of user, you certainly seem to be embracing certain types of social media (twitter and this forum etc), what about a few more youtube type videos? Basic tutorials? and for certain products, your current titles/descriptions are awful. I have phoned up in the past to find out more, and had great advice, but I sholdn't need to call - it should all be there for me to make an informed decision whilst at your website.

[Petal]

I'm not sure I agree with the repro thing - Cookson's would be doing their customers a bigger benefit because everyone would know where to find everything in one simple source.

I know this is just about the Argentium, but I actually think this point goes for many of their products. When I started silversmithing a couple of years ago I didn't find the Cooksons info terribly useful as there is very little information on products full stop - especially for a novice.

I was doing a stone setting course this summer and there were several established jewellers there who had been in the business for 10-20 years, and even they stated that they found some of the Cooksons info lacking - in general. In some cases it put them off to other suppliers - which I guess is not a problem in the case of Argentium, but it is not an exscuse to be lax in terms of information on a product which you are the only supplier.

Cooksons - think of what you could be doing in terms of advice for all levels of user, you certainly seem to be embracing certain types of social media (twitter and this forum etc), what about a few more youtube type videos? Basic tutorials? and for certain products, your current titles/descriptions are awful. I have phoned up in the past to find out more, and had great advice, but I sholdn't need to call - it should all be there for me to make an informed decision whilst at your website.

I agree. A short description of what something does, or is, is invaluable when you are thinking of buying something, whether as a novice or have done the technique before. I too, have rung up for more info and sometimes you just don't get the info you need in order to make an informed decision, which either sends you off to the competition, or you don't bother with buying! As an example, I went onto their website the other day to order some wire. On the list it said "Standard" wire. I expected to see 'soft', 'half hard' and 'hard'. I rang up to find out what 'standard' was and they said 'do you have the catalogue!!! (Yes I have). Standard wire is listed in the catalogue as soft. Now that is not very helpful to someone who may not have the catalogue - think of all that lost business Cookies! This isn't about moaning about Cooksons, its about telling it like it is.

[Solunar Silver Studio]

I didn't really want to start to rant again about the website because I have already had a go about it yonks ago http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/2219-post14.html and Adam gave a nice reply saying that they were well aware of the problems and were in the process of getting the software to sort it out but obviously it would take some time . He did also give the impression that they were 'tweaking' bits in the meantime. http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/2235-post15.html

It's just with the fact that they are trying to promote the Argentium...and every Argentium user (actual and prospective) in the country (....and I don't know but possibly even Europe too??!!) must visit the 'ARGENTIUM' section of the on line catalogue...they are missing an opportunity to 'big it up' and 'big up' Cooksons as a great and helpful supplier as well!!

With it being such a small section - with, I think, only 57 items in it I think it is worth a tweak!!

What do you reckon boys??:D

[caroleallen]

But there's no point in "bigging it up" if you can't get hold of it in the first place. I did a course on using Argentium at the Birmingham Jewellery School in August and there were 10 of us all wanting a piece of it. Some people had ordered theirs weeks before and some had left it to buy on the day. Cooksons hadn't been able to supply even those who had pre-ordered. We read them the riot act and did get some for the second part of the course. I'd love to be able to shift from sterling to Argentium but despair about it ever happening!:(|:(|:(|:

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Everything said it was in stock when I was looking yesterday...and I have now finally worked out my shopping list ready to put in the basket during my elevensies today...so I would also like to be advised if it is worth all the researching effort I put in over the weekend...preferably by midday today...so I will know if this order is worth putting in!!

[pauljoels]

I didn't really want to start to rant again about the website because I have already had a go about it yonks ago http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/2219-post14.html and Adam gave a nice reply saying that they were well aware of the problems and were in the process of getting the software to sort it out but obviously it would take some time . He did also give the impression that they were 'tweaking' bits in the meantime. http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/2235-post15.html

It's just with the fact that they are trying to promote the Argentium...and every Argentium user (actual and prospective) in the country (....and I don't know but possibly even Europe too??!!) must visit the 'ARGENTIUM' section of the on line catalogue...they are missing an opportunity to 'big it up' and 'big up' Cooksons as a great and helpful supplier as well!!

With it being such a small section - with, I think, only 57 items in it I think it is worth a tweak!!

What do you reckon boys??:D

Sorry - I realise this thread is tyring to be constructive about Argentium, but I think the exact same points go for most (if not all in an ideal world) of Cooksons products. Also Adam's response was mainly about the search facility, which I actually have no issue with. My issue was with the lack of general information on products (I know it should be in a new thread, but you won't hear more about it from me now!).

And I wouldn't expect these things to be done overnight - they take money, and too much time - Having rebranded two companies, the website always seems to be the biggest thing these days...there's so many possibilities, and only so much cash to invest.

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Right...My basket is ready! Not that it will make a big difference to Cookson's coffers but it has made a serious dent in mine..being into 3 figures (..before the decimal point!!:rolleyes:) In the light of the foregoing...any chance of any comments from Cookson's bods about argentium stock levels before I press the button?

[apike]

Hi Barb,
I've only just come across your post - and we do value all of our customers orders however small of large. We do currently have 0.8mm sheet out of stock and are working hard to rectify these stock issues. In regards to our lack of information on Argentium, yes I agree and we will try our best to seek further information from our supplier.

Sorry I can't be of much assistance at this moment in time.

Adam

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Oh God...I nearly had heart failure then!!...I have literally just seconds ago sent my order through!!

Wippeeeee!!! I've not ordered .8 sheet so I'm OK!!!:dancing:

I am really looking forward to having a play with a few more argentium bits...and then I might understand a bit more about it and add a few more reviews to help other people. (I was a good little girl and reviewed the 0.7 wire that I bought for earwires in June!!:cool::-D)

Thanks for replying!!! Even if the timing was a bit off for my delicate constitution!!:-D

[apike]

Hi Carole,
I have chased your Argentium order and this will be leaving the building this afternoon and you should receive your order tomorrow. I'm sorry for the delay.

Adam :)

[mizgeorge]

I've only just spotted this thread, and I'm a bit mystified tbh.

I thought the argentium knowledge in the knowledgebase, and in the argentium supplement was excellent. Certainly no less comprehensive than that available for sterling or gold.

Questions like what wires gauges to use, what solders etc etc are no different to those asked every day about sterling or fine silvers, and I for one certainly wouldn't expect all the answers to be provided by my bullion supplier - partly because most of them are part of the learning process that we all go through, and if I couldn't figure it out myself, I'd ask my peer group - in places like this forum.

What I do think is really pants, though, is having a reasonably comprehensive selection available, but NO SOLDER. I know it fuses beautifully, I've done it. But I rarely want to fuse, except at very small gauges, I want to solder.

And for those who hate firestain, it can be avoided completely by using firescoff. Which, erm, you can't get from Cooksons either. Oops.

[agent_44]

I am terrible for forgetting about the knowledge base, maybe some folks don't realise it's there?

[Solunar Silver Studio]

Cooksons now have extra easy, easy and medium Argentium solders in stock... I have just bought some of all three because I have no idea which one would be best to work with. I have bought some 1mm wire - which I hope I will be able to draw down to thinner wires so that I can find out how much stronger 'much stronger' is in the finer gauges. I have bought 10 of each size bead - even though I have no idea what size holes they have. I have bought small pieces of .3 and .5 sheet to play around with bezels - and as it is 'much stronger' I don't know how much thinner I have to go to get the same effect as a heavier gauge of sterling. And some other bits and bobs. And every item has exactly the same product details...the advertising blurb about Argentium as a product...nothing at all about the specific product it is next to on the page.

Knowledge is abundant on the internet...and there is a fair bit of detailed information from America on Argentium. I know because I have been waiting for Argentium to come to this country since the beginning of the year and I have been trying to learn about it. There are countless thousands of people around the world with knowledge of working with sterling silver. Try to find more than a handful of people in the UK that have a working knowledge of Argentium who are willing to explain the ins and outs to you.

I just thought that Cooksons might be missing an opportunity to be a central point for getting some of the information that people are after - particularly since they are the sole distributor.

[lorraineflee]

I just thought that Cooksons might be missing an opportunity to be a central point for getting some of the information that people are after - particularly since they are the sole distributor.

And especially since it was first "discovered/invented" at Middlesex University!!

Lorraine

[Solunar Silver Studio]

And especially since it was first "discovered/invented" at Middlesex University!!

Lorraine

It is a bit tragic isn't it... Why is it we get stuff last?? I think they even had it in Australia before us!!:'(

[mizgeorge]

Cooksons now have extra easy, easy and medium Argentium solders in stock... I have just bought some of all three because I have no idea which one would be best to work with. I have bought some 1mm wire - which I hope I will be able to draw down to thinner wires so that I can find out how much stronger 'much stronger' is in the finer gauges. I have bought 10 of each size bead - even though I have no idea what size holes they have. I have bought small pieces of .3 and .5 sheet to play around with bezels - and as it is 'much stronger' I don't know how much thinner I have to go to get the same effect as a heavier gauge of sterling. And some other bits and bobs. And every item has exactly the same product details...the advertising blurb about Argentium as a product...nothing at all about the specific product it is next to on the page.

Knowledge is abundant on the internet...and there is a fair bit of detailed information from America on Argentium. I know because I have been waiting for Argentium to come to this country since the beginning of the year and I have been trying to learn about it. There are countless thousands of people around the world with knowledge of working with sterling silver. Try to find more than a handful of people in the UK that have a working knowledge of Argentium who are willing to explain the ins and outs to you.

I just thought that Cooksons might be missing an opportunity to be a central point for getting some of the information that people are after - particularly since they are the sole distributor.

B, have you looked at the knowledgebase stuff on Argentium. There's a direct link on every page of the Cooksons website, and also right here on the forum. I found a lot of very useful information there. I don't think it's necessarily practical to put all that information on every product listing, especially as those listings have to be absolutely current.

I may be wrong, but I believe there were a number of legal reasons why Argentium hasn't been on sale here in the UK until now.

[caroleallen]

Guess what! I had notification to say that Cooksons have sent my piece of Argentium. Only took 7 weeks!