Barreller build up help!

[Dennis]

Good morning Kathryn,The brushes I find most useful are:

Pencil glass brush 999183, conditioned as in my earlier post and used dry. If it is still too large for a certain job some of the bristles can be cut away with scissors. You will also need a refill pack 999185, once you have tried it out and hopefully like it.

I also use a larger string bound brush such as 999162, although the string is fiddly. This one I use wet with hand soap and water, to remove the bloom after pickling, or lightly remove excess shine after barreling. The longer the exposed fibres, the softer it is in use.

Be aware that if your fingers are sensitive to the prickles of glass fibre, you have to wear gloves. Regards, Dennis.

Please recheck the order numbers in case I have made a mistake.

[Kathryn Harrison]

Brilliant thanks! I might as well blow my newly acquired pay on stuff to do for the rest of the month.

[Claire]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum (just introduced myself on the new members thread) and thought I'd add my recent experience of barreling issues to this thread. After a lot of research (!) I finally took the plunge and bought a Lortone 3A rubber barrel polisher and mixed stainless steel shot. I was really keen to speed up the polishing process with smaller silver components and also wanted to use it for work hardening silver earring wires in bulk. I bought it as a kit from Palmers (good value as it came with the shot, brass brush and barreling liquid). I followed all the instructions for running it with some barreling liquid and the mixed stainless steel shot on its own first to clean it all out. All well & good - water was black to begin with and ran it again until it was clear. My first couple of runs produced great results. I firstly tumbled a batch of earring wires for approx. 1 hour - everything came out shiny, no problems. But I've since had two absolute disasters, with all my silver wire turning black. On both occasions I had been tumbling sterling headpins, which I had balled and placed in pickling solution in my crock pot. They were well rinsed ahead of going into the tumbler. They were placed into mixed stainless steel shot, covered with warm water and the tiniest dribble of the barreling liquid. I did leave them in for a lot longer on the first disasterous occasion - for about 2 & half hours. The coating was a heavy black - almost rubbery to the touch. It could be removed with a rouge cloth - but it obviously took me a long time. I thoroughly cleaned out the barrel and the shot and tried again the next day - same result! I was thinking maybe the barreling liquid, but wasn't sure? I've also thrown away my batch of acid in the pickler but I really don't think this is the problem.
I know there has been some similar issues reported on here, but nothing that quite matched this experience. The barreling solution was clear - it was only my silver that was black. I got some interesting replies through Ganoksin and one really struck a chord. It did seem like the rubber was almost 'dissolving' onto the silver and there have been a few suggestions that it is the barreling liquid - either the quantity or the PH value. One thing everyone seemed to agree on - coca cola to clean both the barrel and the shot! I wondered if anyone else has any experience of using the Palmers barreling liquid or has had a similar experience?
Claire

[Kwant]

I have the very same kit and have used it almost daily for over a year. I do from time to time get black water but I have never experienced any of my items going black. Length of time for tumbling varies from 30 minutes to hours on end (having forgotten it was even on) still no problem as you have described.

I only change the water when it goes a bit black, otherwise I just top it up to take into account the amount lost from scooping out froth to find pieces. After a quick rinse with clean water and a dry on some kitchen towel, it is back in again until the next time it goes black.

I don't use pickling solutions as I cannot get them here in France, so use sulphuric acid which I can buy at the supermarket, so I cannot comment on the effect they might have on the tumbling process if indeed they are the contaminant.

Welcome to the forum by the way ;0)

[Claire]

I don't use pickling solutions as I cannot get them here in France, so use sulphuric acid which I can buy at the supermarket, so I cannot comment on the effect they might have on the tumbling process if indeed they are the contaminant.
;0)

Now that is interesting. I'm wondering if in fact it could have been the acid. I had dismissed this notion really. Perhaps I hadn't rinsed my headpins well enough before placing into the barrel. Could some acid residue on small headpins really cause this do you know? (I'll be a barrel trouble shooting expert by the end of this! :-))
Claire

[Kwant]

I do rinse my stuff after pickling in the sulphuric acid but I have to admit I use the same jar of water for quite some time before changing it and it must progressively get more and more acidic as time goes by and I then put the the pieces into the tumbler with no further rinsing, further the acid I use is 30%, which should really be diluted to 10% but hmmm well so far it has worked for me as it is. As I say I know nothing about proprietary pickling solutions so have no clue how they would effect the tumbling, particularly in conjunction with Palmers barreling fluid which if the label is anything to go by is not simply soap as there are warnings on it.

I have read many times of people suggesting using a mild soap solution, unscented, as a substitute for barreling fluid, and having just checked the dire warnings on the Palmers stuff :0) perhaps you could try changing to a soap solution, I am guessing they mean something like lux flakes or a very mild washing up liquid.

[mizgeorge]

I've never come across barrelling liquid, I use powder burnishing soap or TSP (thanks for that one Dennis). I've also used plain soap flakes and basic fairy liquid (nothing with any additives, especially antibac or fragrance) However it does sound as though something is attacking the rubber of the barrel, and this could either be the liquid or possibly pickle residue. Unless there's something very wrong with your shot.

I use a Lortone, and have used the same barrel every day, often all day (and all night) for quite a few years without [i]ever[/] having anything blacken. And I happily tumble mixed metals, oxidised and plain. I only dunk pieces in water after pickling, and still no problems.

Which would suggest that the liquid might be the problem.

However, there is another possible culprit, which is your water. I know that some people in the US have had problems with heavily clorinated water damaging their barrels. I wonder if you should try using distilled, bottled, or at least filtered water to see if this helps. I do know that our very hard water renders barrelbrite completely useless, so I use the Raytech compound instead.

[Dennis]

I must confess that this happened to me only this week, after about ten hours of barreling in a black plastic barrel with old solution. It can't have been the barrel, because another 1½ hours with new solution solved it.

Something similar occurs with prolonged immersion of silver in soda with foil, silver dip, or even safety pickle overnight, so I wonder whether we are looking at an electrolytic process? Chlorine in tap water as suggested by George might also be a clue, as might be the avoidance of this problem with an acid solution, mentioned by Kwant. Dennis.

[Claire]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Frustrating yet fascinating at the same time! Taking everyone's comments on board, the fact that Kwant has the same kit (different water!) and MizGeorge the Lortone too, I think I'm leaning towards a combination of the liquid, our soft scottish water and the fact that the barrel is new and maybe not quite broken in. There has definitely been some kind of chemical reaction Dennis and the build up on the silver does have a distinct rubbery feel. I've had quite a number of responses via Ganoksin about PH levels which ties in with water / barreling liquid theories. So, went out and bought a bottle of coke this morning to get cleaning, but after that... not sure. I'm nervous about the barreling liquid now. I reckon I might go with a light detergent like you suggest mizgeorge (after a thorough cleaning) and perhaps try bottled water. I'm curious - what is TSP mizgeorge / Dennis?
Claire

[mizgeorge]

http://mistralni.co.uk/catalogue/pro...hate-Anhydrous

(amongst other places!) I already had some. Pure soap flakes work well too - if you've got very soft water, just a half teaspoon will be plenty.