Priced Out.

I have posted this separately, so as not to hijack Clareys thread http://www.cooksongold.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4142. Below is my project ring, made last term, at the college I attend part time: to make a tube set ring against the clock. It took me four hours.

So, pricing it along the lines suggested by George:
Time at say £10 an hour £40.00
Materials, silver and peridot £20.00
Hallmarking, postage , and profit £10.00. Wholesale price £70.


Gallery price £140 plus VAT @20% £168.00
Price of a comparable item in a seaside gift shop, maybe £ 20.00 Dennis.

Nice ring, Dennis. I like the gemstone, is it chrome diopside or tsavorite garnet? beautiful colour. I agree about the pricing, however I would still put it up for sale to whatever it came to (I have silver rings for £300 and they sell :-) ), as I found there are people who would rather pay your price and know it is hand-made and well made, rather than pay £20 and know it is mass produced.

I had a similar situation last week, where I made a silver ring with an iolite, it took me all day (I started at 10am and finished at about 4.30pm); so I kept it for myself, as there wouldn't be any people paying £450 for a silver ring (it is made with a 1.5mm shank and fancy setting - that's the setting, on which I spent hours) . I was thinking of casting some of the components to shorten the manufacturing time, but as I only cast once, I wasn't sure I would be able to do that :confused:

It's peridot Lilia,but I was over enthusiastic in brightening the coluor. Regards, Dennis.

Dennis, you hit the nail on the head.

"Price of a comparable item in a seaside gift shop, maybe £ 20.00 "

Seaside gift shop. CR*P stuff compared to what you produce.

We are artisans and have no wish to compete with 'seaside gift shops' That is not our market!

Make a stand for your creations and judging by the pic your work is fab. There is a market out there for your work. A seaside giftshop is def not your market Dennis.

Andrew

Hi, I would like to know where you sell your stuff for that sort of money. We exhibit ours at local craft fairs and as a rule people look at the prices first and say its lovely but I cant afford that price, and we are talking about £60 or less for a ring similar to Dennis's. Perhaps we just live in a poor part of the country, but I have had people jib at paying £50 for a chainmaille bracelet.

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Originally Posted by lilia

Nice ring, Dennis. I like the gemstone, is it chrome diopside or tsavorite garnet? beautiful colour. I agree about the pricing, however I would still put it up for sale to whatever it came to (I have silver rings for £300 and they sell :-) ), as I found there are people who would rather pay your price and know it is hand-made and well made, rather than pay £20 and know it is mass produced.

I had a similar situation last week, where I made a silver ring with an iolite, it took me all day (I started at 10am and finished at about 4.30pm); so I kept it for myself, as there wouldn't be any people paying £450 for a silver ring (it is made with a 1.5mm shank and fancy setting - that's the setting, on which I spent hours) . I was thinking of casting some of the components to shorten the manufacturing time, but as I only cast once, I wasn't sure I would be able to do that :confused:

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Once on a course we were all made to stand up and introduce ourselves. Some followed on with boring statements of what they were inspired by, but one old lady got up and said:

'When I got married we didn't have much money and I soon realised that if I wanted jewellery, I'd have to make it myself.'

As Pat says, there are people out there with a taste for a bit of luxury, who simply don't have the income. Dennis.

Nice to see someone with their feet on the ground, well done Dennis. One question I would like to ask out of curiosity, how many people are making enough money to live on soley from making jewellery, not teaching or publishing videos etc, just making jewellery and selling it, also what is the common consensus of buying jewellery online, cos I was moaning to hubby the other day, and he said would you buy jewellery online if you didnt know the seller, and my immediate answer was "no".
I would be interested to know what other peoples reaction is to the same questions.

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Originally Posted by Dennis

Once on a course we were all made to stand up and introduce ourselves. Some followed on with boring statements of what they were inspired by, but one old lady got up and said:

'When I got married we didn't have much money and I soon realised that if I wanted jewellery, I'd have to make it myself.'

As Pat says, there are people out there with a taste for a bit of luxury, who simply don't have the income. Dennis.

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I *might*, but it'd have to be something quite unusual to do it.
There have been things I've seen in person that I've then gone on to buy online - Karina Gill's bowls, for example.

As for making a living at it - not at the moment, no. I don't sell enough pieces for it to be anything more than self-supporting, I'm not currently offering anything online and I'm not interested in craft fairs - while they're easier to get into than some shows, I feel that people don't go along to them expecting to spend much on pieces; possibly too many of the fairs are too bombarded with cheap imported tat that brings the tone of things down. IME :)

To do a show *properly* (IMO again) you've got to have the target audience expecting to spend money, you've got to be able to handle payments by credit card and you have to have a stand that looks professional. If I pitch up with a paste table and scatter some work on it, I'm not creating an impression or environment that is going to help sell things. If I'm the only one selling properly made work amongst import tat, I'm on a hiding to nothing.

That said, there's a village fete coming up where I've been asked to demo something, so I think it's going to be anticlasts in copper - something large enough for people to see (as opposed to stone setting, for example) and active enough to attract attention. I'll have a few pieces in silver there, but as I'm doing it to support the fete rather than a sales opportunity, it's more about the publicity - it's not an environment where I'd expect people to spring for the expensive stuff.

I sometimes wonder if the public at large have any conception of the marked increase in precious metal prices this last couple of years, particularly in the case of silver which to my mind was always considered reasonable, and although it does not reach the heady heights of the price of gold, is now no longer "cheap".

The first order I placed with Cookies which was about 2 years ago, sterling silver was £530Kg, now its £930??? or thereabouts.

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Originally Posted by Kwant

I sometimes wonder if the public at large have any conception of the marked increase in precious metal prices this last couple of years, particularly in the case of silver which to my mind was always considered reasonable, and although it does not reach the heady heights of the price of gold, is now no longer "cheap".

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Originally Posted by Patstone

Hi, I would like to know where you sell your stuff for that sort of money. We exhibit ours at local craft fairs and as a rule people look at the prices first and say its lovely but I cant afford that price, and we are talking about £60 or less for a ring similar to Dennis's. Perhaps we just live in a poor part of the country, but I have had people jib at paying £50 for a chainmaille bracelet.

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Hi Patstone :-) ,


I sell on my website, Etsy and a local gallery in the Cotswolds. I don't do craft fairs as they weren't successful for me at all.


Of course, Dennis, you said in the first post that it's peridot. just shows that the ring would look equally beautiful with a dark green gem ;-)

But do you make a living at it? could you survive without having another income.

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Originally Posted by lilia

Hi Patstone :-) ,


I sell on my website, Etsy and a local gallery in the Cotswolds. I don't do craft fairs as they weren't successful for me at all.


Of course, Dennis, you said in the first post that it's peridot. just shows that the ring would look equally beautiful with a dark green gem ;-)

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Hi, I do, I wouldn't say it is a huge income. I certainly don't live in a huge house and drive the most expensive car. Of course, everyone wishes to have a large income, but I don't think any craft jewellers ever achieved it, unless they went really big.

I started out making jewellery back in 1989 and I have made a living from it since.

I do sell other jewellery admittedly but it pays enough for a comfortable life style, pays the rent, 4 staff, all the overheads, a wife. triplet daughters (14 years old), mortgage, holidays each year, pension and a little bit left over in my savings.

The teaching and online training is extra income on top of this.

It does all depend on how much you want out of life.

If you want to sell at craft fairs then your jewellery that you make has to reflect that market. If you want to sell 1 ct diamond solitaires then you aint gonna sell that many at a craft fair.

So think about the kind of income you want, look as to what type of market will give you that income and make jewellery to fit that market that will give you the income.

What does everyone think?

Andrew

Well Andrew, that is another way of looking at something, making the jewellery for the market you want. I am still not sure that we would be good enough to command high prices for the jewellery we make at the moment. If you are good enough to set a 1 ct diamond, you still have to buy the diamond in the first place and we havent got that sort of money. A lot of what you do is governed by money or rather lack of it.

We are renting a shop in an arcade in a market town close to Exeter, getting the lease signed tomorrow, we are sharing it with a lady that make pictures out of material, not sure if it will work, because we are taking the lease for a six month term to test the water and we don't have the money to be able to fit it out as we would like.

I am hoping to be able to take teaching on a one-to-one basis sometime in the future, just elementary stuff and who knows from there on. I am retired and 65, hubby works nights, and is home during the day, so dont want to spend every day in the shop and my daughter works full time, so really we have to share with someone else to enable me to have time with hubby and my two dogs. I will keep an open mind about the shop, its not in a great location, but a lot cheaper than the same in Exeter. We are having difficulty naming the shop as we will be running two separate businesses from there, thats another reason why its just a trial six months. Bit scarey.

Wow, Pat, exciting stuff! Hope it goes well xxx


Melanie

http://www.spinysharklythings.com

I'm quite excited for you, Pat. How about starting a new thread so members can brainstorm possible names? Dennis.

wishing you all the best Pat xxxx

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Originally Posted by Dennis

I'm quite excited for you, Pat. How about starting a new thread so members can brainstorm possible names? Dennis.

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Fab idea, as always

Thats a good idea, we thought about just calling it UNIT 4, as a modern and contemporary name which I think is quite novel. The sewing lady (Judy) has a name for her part and has a website and its Creative Memories and of course ours (my daughter Sam and I are called Isca Silver. The whole idea is so that we will get our name out there. The shop was Judy's idea and she was thinking of renting it on her own but found that the rent was too high for one person so she asked us if we wanted to share. Judy says she doesnt think we need a name, as our name will be on our till receipts, but if people are referring to the shop, telling friends what a wonderful shop it is and it doesnt have a name..................... to all intents and purposes anyone walking in to the shop wont know that it is two separate businesses.

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Originally Posted by Dennis

I'm quite excited for you, Pat. How about starting a new thread so members can brainstorm possible names? Dennis.

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Congrats on the shop Pat .............. hope it goes well x

Thanks all you lovely people about the shop. I will keep you informed of the things that happen. Should be good for a laugh if nothing else, I will put the latest in "The Lounge" part of the forum. We wont be opening for a few weeks cos we have to set it up as it was an office before.

One suggestion for the shop name - Pat and (your friends name) treasures... ? Or the names the other way round if it sounds better? It gives an indication that its two people producing something to collect, treasure, value...

How about gallery four, that sounds better than unit.

I have been overruled I am afraid the two younger ones want to call it by two separate names, Beloved memories and Isca silver or something like that.
Stupid but it will be run like two seperate businesses, not financially tied, only by the rent sharing. Not quite sure how it will work out, I will give it six months and then if our lives have managed to sort themselves out, we will decide then what to do. It is quite a difficult decision, if it was just me and hubby involved we would work around it, but as we havent been married long, I want to spend my spare time with him, and he works nights, so sleeps from around 5pm until 1.30am and of course I have two quite young dogs to consider. The Labrador is only 3 but typical lab, nothing fazes him and he is so laid back, but the other one is a border terrier female and is just 2, so is a bit boisterous, otherwise I could take them with me, and the shop is only little, its about 13 foot by about 11 foot, so not much room for a dog cage for little un either. Any ideas would be more than welcome. Dog sitters cost £15 a day for both.

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Originally Posted by caroleallen

How about gallery four, that sounds better than unit.

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