stone setting with gravers - how to protect the thumb?

Hi again

the stone setting course is now over. Tony Tigg is a genius setter.


The problem: enthusiastic as always - I have been a tad carried away with my graver, learning to set and use my tools and now have a several cuts on my dominant thumb.

I have been using my green finger tape, but I keep getting the tape covered in oil and this then plays up with the setters cement as it is rather saturating the tape I guess. I have cut back on the oil and this has helped with the cement. The tape is a poor match against the graver too and ends up in tatters very quickly. I have an allergy to rubber so cannot use one of those thumbett thingys, which I thought would have been ideal.

Any suggestions on how I can protect my thumb before I do any more damage would be very welcomed.

Pics and a write-up??? :)

When you say your dominant thumb, do you mean the one you're holding the graver with? If not, the advice is keep your thumb out of the way...

If it's the former - and normally I'd say use one of the rubber thumb thingies - can I suggest stoning the sharp edges off your graver where you touch them? I know some engravers use heat-shrink tubing or fuel tubing over gravers to protect their thumbs (I don't personally, but whatever works).

I think Peter's suggestion of smoothing the relevant edges makes the most sense. But when things are too painful to hold I often get out my leather finger stalls, a small one for my index finger and a larger one for the opposing thumb (Cookson 9990164 & 9990165). The sort that tie on, from the chemist might suit you even better. Dennis.

lol - pics..... some of the stuff I did was shockingly awful..... much improved now, but a long way to go. I did start a pavé setting at the weekend (because it was fun and I can mostly do it now - again, a long way to go, but what joy!!) lol I will get some pics up soon though....... and you can laugh with me. hahaha

okay, the graver - the spitstick is very sharp all the way underneath and I didn't know if this is normal. The knife edge spitstick is not as sharp, so I thought it may be due to the curves on the onglette. I will look into a few options. I use my right hand and my right thumb is getting shredded.

I am not keen to alter the gravers, they are a wonderful design without me adapting them.

thanks Peter - And Dennis your ideas are great too. I will see what a little more perseverence with google for thumb stalls comes up with. The right words make searching so much easier. Thank you both again. :o

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Originally Posted by Dennis

I think Peter's suggestion of smoothing the relevant edges makes the most sense. But when things are too painful to hold I often get out my leather finger stalls, a small one for my index finger and a larger one for the opposing thumb (Cookson 9990164 & 9990165). The sort that tie on, from the chemist might suit you even better. Dennis.

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Success - your idea helped with getting a possible result - http://fingerstalls.com/ will see if it works. I do use the finger covers, but they slip off my little figers all the time. Even the Gravers had to be made much shorter as I have small hands. lol

thanks for the quick help - I want to get back to setting more things! YAY looks like it will be sooner than later now.

Yes, now that you mention it, the spit stick is the most painful because the sharp lower edge also gives rise to the point.

I don't use my gravers much, because I have never succeeded with them, despite a four day course years ago.

Looking at my collection I put masking tape around the painful bits. Embarrassing to be so late in remembering this. Dennis.

Is the oil you mention from the sharpening stone? I mentioned the other day using almond oil instead - although given I sharpen my gravers on diamond & ceramics, they're both used dry so I don't use oil often (although I have a small dip-pot to lube the graver points).

WRT the onglette/spitstick - I remember other people getting cuts off the bottom of that, I'd assumed it was the top edge that was causing problems. I#ve just gone and looked at how I hold it, and my thumb is alongside the graver, so even when I slide it past my thumb it still doesn't get the edge. I'd still suggest blunting it about 1/2" back from the cutting tip - by the time you've sharpened back that far you should be quite comfortable reprofiling it (it's a lot like sharpening a knife, but rocking it to get the curve). You don't need to take much off, just a couple of swipes.

Wasn't that the same course Carole was on?

Hi Wallace, I use a leather stall on my left thumb, because I havent really mastered the gravers and they tend to slip and whoops another trip to A & E. Mine has elastic all down the length of it so it fits snug but its more like industrial suede gloves, so may be better suited to you. It may be cheaper to get a pair of the cotton gardening gloves with the suede fingers and just cut off the fingers, an elastic band for the top. They are only about £2 or so from B & Q.

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Originally Posted by Wallace

Success - your idea helped with getting a possible result - http://fingerstalls.com/ will see if it works. I do use the finger covers, but they slip off my little figers all the time. Even the Gravers had to be made much shorter as I have small hands. lol

thanks for the quick help - I want to get back to setting more things! YAY looks like it will be sooner than later now.

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Originally Posted by ps_bond

Wasn't that the same course Carole was on?

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Yes it was Peter. I didn't attack my pieces with quite as much gusto as Wallace though! For some reason, I didn't find using the gravers cut my thumb. I haven't had a chance to practice since I got home either. Wallace has really found stone setting to be her thing, whereas my eyes let me down and I couldn't really get the hang of pave setting. I did enjoy it though and some of the other settings are much more my style. It was a delight to be taught by such a professional and I'd definitely recommend it.

The group of people were lovely, particularly Wallace - we had such a great time.

Does sound like it was a fun course - I'd still love to see a full report + pics (joint effort?) if possible, please!

For 3mm & above stones, I don't use magnification much other than checking with a loupe; I use the Optivisor & microscope for smaller stuff. I've been experimenting more with precutting with power recently; I'm dialling the power way down to get the control, which means it's not really any faster, just less effort.

There's a massive difference between being taught be a pro setter and someone who just teaches setting, isn't there? Did he teach seat cutting with a bullstick too?

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Originally Posted by ps_bond

Does sound like it was a fun course - I'd still love to see a full report + pics (joint effort?) if possible, please!

For 3mm & above stones, I don't use magnification much other than checking with a loupe; I use the Optivisor & microscope for smaller stuff. I've been experimenting more with precutting with power recently; I'm dialling the power way down to get the control, which means it's not really any faster, just less effort.

There's a massive difference between being taught be a pro setter and someone who just teaches setting, isn't there? Did he teach seat cutting with a bullstick too?

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Yes, he did teach seat cutting with a bullstick. We had a day of getting our gravers etc. sorted and then cutting lines and circles. Once we'd done that, we moved on to cutting seats and raising grains. We then set stones in different patterns so that we could tidy up the surrounding areas. That was the bit where I failed miserably as I just couldn't seem to make it all look nice and shiny.

I was a lot happier once we moved on to other types of settings. Although I can see the beauty of pave setting, it's not really my style. I'm glad I know how to do it though, as maybe at some point in the future I might want to do it.

Looks a good course, where was it - London? I could do with a course like that, it would be interesting and I would learn a lot.

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Originally Posted by caroleallen

Yes, he did teach seat cutting with a bullstick. We had a day of getting our gravers etc. sorted and then cutting lines and circles. Once we'd done that, we moved on to cutting seats and raising grains. We then set stones in different patterns so that we could tidy up the surrounding areas. That was the bit where I failed miserably as I just couldn't seem to make it all look nice and shiny.

I was a lot happier once we moved on to other types of settings. Although I can see the beauty of pave setting, it's not really my style. I'm glad I know how to do it though, as maybe at some point in the future I might want to do it.

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It was at John Cass at the London Metropolitan Pat. Tony Tigg does a couple of courses there a year.

I may have to venture into the big wide world then and book myself onto a course later in the year. My daughter and I are going in with a third person to open a small shop which we got a very cheap rent on, where we can sell some of the things we make and do a couple of workshops. Scary stuff, cos I have never been involved in a sales environment, but if I dont have a go now, I never will.

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Originally Posted by Patstone

I may have to venture into the big wide world then and book myself onto a course later in the year. My daughter and I are going in with a third person to open a small shop which we got a very cheap rent on, where we can sell some of the things we make and do a couple of workshops. Scary stuff, cos I have never been involved in a sales environment, but if I dont have a go now, I never will.

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Ooh well done you. Very exciting. Will be very interested to know how it goes.

Its only on a six month lease, just to see if it works out. My husband works nights, so has his main meal at lunchtime, which could be difficult to achieve as the shop is about 7 miles away from home. Have to get a bit more organised than I am now, have to get out with the dogs mega early, so when I leave them, they can cross their legs until hubby gets home at around 11a.m. Daughter works full time and mum is 95 so cant leave them there either. Hope it will work out, cos at the moment it just seems like a juggling act that may or may not go according to plan.

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Originally Posted by Patstone

Its only on a six month lease, just to see if it works out. My husband works nights, so has his main meal at lunchtime, which could be difficult to achieve as the shop is about 7 miles away from home. Have to get a bit more organised than I am now, have to get out with the dogs mega early, so when I leave them, they can cross their legs until hubby gets home at around 11a.m. Daughter works full time and mum is 95 so cant leave them there either. Hope it will work out, cos at the moment it just seems like a juggling act that may or may not go according to plan.

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sounds like a great opportunity and one not to miss Pat. Hope it goes really well, you make such lovely items.

Tony's next course is on in the summer and with the Olympics, I am not sure it will be easy to get around London unless you are camping outside! lol

info on his course is: http://www.londonmet.ac.uk/jcamd/cou...ne-setting.cfm

I would go again, just because it was amazing and I am totally hooked.

Carole was so great to be working next to, fab in fact. You made all the difference, I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much. xx

Yup, definitely would do it all again.




and now for the picture show - please note this was my first real go at doing this. I have never had lessons anything I have done in jewellery making. I was so ready for this........

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I'm definitely not showing my pitiful attempts. Macro lenses don't do us any favours.

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Originally Posted by caroleallen

I'm definitely not showing my pitiful attempts. Macro lenses don't do us any favours.

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So not going there - was going to do a bit of photo editing! lol

I will get better - these should go in the drawer of eternal darkness! lol

The star setting looks fab, and the second square setting - both on the second image. Well done!

Really interesting thread and piccies, thanks both.
Good work in progress there Wallace!!

Wallace I am really, really impressed with that, what an achievement. I am definately going to book on a course, but after the olympics. It will probably break the bank but I am sure my daughter Sam would like to go too. Well done, clever girl. (Got a mind blank trying to spell olympix) hahaha

It says "advanced" on the link, did you do the advanced course? There seems to be a Simon Tigg as well. I wonder if I am capable of being advanced enough to go on a course like that. Still struggling with a basket setting, and havent attempted a tube setting yet.

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Originally Posted by Wallace

nd now for the picture show - please note this was my first real go at doing this. I have never had lessons anything I have done in jewellery making. I was so ready for this........

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That's very familiar - the same exercises Tom had us doing, by the looks of it. Cutting to the line rather than away from it I presume?

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Attachment 3537Attachment 3538

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Nice going; I particularly like the star setting & the square - was the latter done by raising the metal with a flat scorper before bright cutting it? I've done that for round stones, I quite like the effect.

Your channel setting looks neater than my first effort - did you move the metal over the stones with a pusher or a different method?

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Originally Posted by ps_bond

That's very familiar - the same exercises Tom had us doing, by the looks of it. Cutting to the line rather than away from it I presume?

Nice going; I particularly like the star setting & the square - was the latter done by raising the metal with a flat scorper before bright cutting it? I've done that for round stones, I quite like the effect.

Your channel setting looks neater than my first effort - did you move the metal over the stones with a pusher or a different method?

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thank you - I am guessing there must be master classes that always get you to do the basics of just pushing the gravers. But it was a bit of a mare the graver seemed to have a mind of it's own, compounded by my ability to completely loose control of the dop stick without notice! Thanks everyone else too for the kind comments - work in progress!

I enjoyed using the flat scorper the most and always polish it with fine grit after a sharpening (I use both oilstone and a spyderco ceramic)

To get the square, first the round hole was made square and opened out with the bullstick, then the lines were drawn and metal 'cut away' with the spitstick (does it feel like I am talking another language??? sorry - these are the tools and it took me ages to get them right, but by day 99 had got there...lol okay, by day 3) Getting the corners right has taken a little practice, but it is similar to setting a Pavé which, I guess, is why we learned that first.

Channel setting came easily, we were on day three by then and it took me the better part of four hours in all to learn and achieve the process. So, to do it, I had to make a groove cut along the out at the inner part of the plate. The bullstick helped to take some metal away, but mostly I used the flat scorper, seemed to have better control and it helped to take out the metal and open up the little bridges very easily. The spitstick was good for getting the corner to have enough space for the square stone. Once the first stone was in the outside was given a push along the length of the stone and then the next one repeated the first bit. The flat scorper was excellent for getting nice straight lines (a little failing I have with boxes!)

My only worry now is how I work out the number of stones needed and where the drill holes go for a nice channel set pendant........ oooooh, the possibilities......
but first, chocolate! lol

I have actuallly used the grains technique for setting an old 1930's ring that had marcasites and replaced them with sapphire, ruby and diamonds (very small, but a lot of fun to do).

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Originally Posted by Patstone

Wallace I am really, really impressed with that, what an achievement. I am definately going to book on a course, but after the olympics. It will probably break the bank but I am sure my daughter Sam would like to go too. Well done, clever girl. (Got a mind blank trying to spell olympix) hahaha

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thank you Pat, both Carole and I managed similar plates, Carole did better with the side grains than I did. lol It will take years and hopefully I still have a fair few of them to keep on practicing. I did manage to do a side grain with the one of the square stones over the weekend (in the after the course plate with the two squares and circular cut out).

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Originally Posted by Patstone

It says "advanced" on the link, did you do the advanced course? There seems to be a Simon Tigg as well. I wonder if I am capable of being advanced enough to go on a course like that. Still struggling with a basket setting, and havent attempted a tube setting yet.

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It does say advanced and this is something I discussed with Tony - he says he doesn't mind who ever comes, he is happy to teach them. I knew nothing of how to do these settings other than what I had read and he made it possible to achieve all that I have. I have a problem with grip and he even came up with a solution for me to hold my dop stick. The man is a genius.

His son is Simon Tigg - Simon does similar classes during term time. Tony covers holidays.

He will help so much, I know I feel more confident. Just need to practice a lot more and start coming up with designs that will work with what I now know. Be warned, stone setting is addictive and very expensive if you go for all of the tools. Stick to the basics, get only what you need - but keep your thumbs covered! lol

I have nothing to say other than WOW! Well done you. When's my lesson? ;) xx

Thanks Wallace for your last 2 posts, though I don't know my spits from my bulls it's helped me have a little more insight into what you've been doing and to just what you've achieved and in only 3 days!!

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Originally Posted by Tabby66

Thanks Wallace for your last 2 posts, though I don't know my spits from my bulls it's helped me have a little more insight into what you've been doing and to just what you've achieved and in only 3 days!!

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Thank you so much. It was fast, furious, finger numbing fun for me. lol

I enjoyed meeting other peeps. Carole was so good to be with and helped make the time even more fun.

There was so much more than I have said........ I am still trying to remember it all! lol

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Originally Posted by mizgeorge

I have nothing to say other than WOW! Well done you. When's my lesson? ;) xx

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xxxx hugs, you sweet talker xxxxxx

Tony is next in town in the up and coming holidays - or you could pop on over any weekend! lol xxx