Gas and equipment

Hi, I'm back again. My problem is my calor gas bottle was empty and when I came to refill it they told me that the 4.7kg bottle was discontinued, suggested using a 7kg bottle, but I need to buy all the bits as mine wont fit. So here I am, trying to make up my mind what to use now. I have looked on the Cookson site and thought the Sievert beginners torch may be a good bet, I have been soldering etc for 11 years so not a beginner but work in my spare bedroom, so need something smalllish. Dont want a handheld as I am blind in one eye and dont want to knock it over, and the Sievert one has a hanger. Opinions and ideas welcomed please. Pat Lee P.s Hello to Dennis and Miz George.

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Originally Posted by Patstone

Hi, I'm back again. My problem is my calor gas bottle was empty and when I came to refill it they told me that the 4.7kg bottle was discontinued, suggested using a 7kg bottle, but I need to buy all the bits as mine wont fit. So here I am, trying to make up my mind what to use now. I have looked on the Cookson site and thought the Sievert beginners torch may be a good bet, I have been soldering etc for 11 years so not a beginner but work in my spare bedroom, so need something smalllish. Dont want a handheld as I am blind in one eye and dont want to knock it over, and the Sievert one has a hanger. Opinions and ideas welcomed please. Pat Lee P.s Hello to Dennis and Miz George.

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I have the Sievert and love it (and am also effectively a one eyed silversmith as I lack binocular vision!)

If you choose Sievert, then buy from Hamilton Gas rather than Cooksons (will that get me banned??). It's significantly cheaper and Hamilton will answer all your questions as they have the necessary technical knowledge.

I have an adaptor from them that allows me to run mine on butane rather than propane so if you tell them what you want to do and what cylinder you want to connect to, they will make sure you have the necessary parts. I wanted more heat than the jewellers tip produces for casting and they told me exactly what I needed to buy. Amazing service.

I’ve had a sievert forever and see no reason to change now.
I’m about to back you Caro as it’s worth shooting around for everything now as I have found Cookson is not the cheapest just convenient

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Originally Posted by CJ57

I’ve had a sievert forever and see no reason to change now.
I’m about to back you Caro as it’s worth shooting around for everything now as I have found Cookson is not the cheapest just convenient

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I didnt see your note until I had already bought a Sievert from Cooksons. I bought the beginners one as I already had a regulator, only to find to find that the handset equipment already has a regulator built in. I couldnt get it to work initially and the Flogas chappie didnt know either, only to find out yesterday that there is a black button on the setup that sends the gas up the pipe. I tried the burner they sent but it was a bit fierce, so I ordered the 8mm one. Most of the stuff I make is delicate things like earrings. Hope the smaller one will work OK. Still haven't found out what the black button on the regulator does, unless it only sends the gas through.

I think you have what is called a hose failure valve rather than a regulator. The little button will pop out if it detects any sudden change of pressure like a damaged hose. Small to large interchangeable nozzles have a tiny jet in them that controls the gas flow. If you change a nozzle without turning the gas off this may also cause the button to pop out. As well as removing the valve from the bottle will activate the button … N

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Originally Posted by nicks creative stuff

I think you have what is called a hose failure valve rather than a regulator. The little button will pop out if it detects any sudden change of pressure like a damaged hose. Small to large interchangeable nozzles have a tiny jet in them that controls the gas flow. If you change a nozzle without turning the gas off this may also cause the button to pop out. As well as removing the valve from the bottle will activate the button … N

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I have only just bought it, it's Cooksons beginner kit, it doesn't say that it's a regulator, but the flogas chap said it was. The button is in the IN position, and I can't get it out again. Do I need a regulator as well.

No need for a regulator with this set up. The button is a safety device and stays pressed in and the gas will flow. it will only pop out and cut off the supply if it detects a sudden change in gas pressure like when you disconnect the bottle. After reconnecting a bottle simply push it back in again and away you go … Nick

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Originally Posted by nicks creative stuff

No need for a regulator with this set up. The button is a safety device and stays pressed in and the gas will flow. it will only pop out and cut off the supply if it detects a sudden change in gas pressure like when you disconnect the bottle. After reconnecting a bottle simply push it back in again and away you go … Nick

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The button is pushed in and there is no gas coming out of it. My next plan is to take off the hose connector thingy to hope that the button will pop out. I am 76 yrs old and haven't got a man to undo it for me, but spoke nicely to my neighbour and he is coming in tomorrow after work to undo it for me. I just hope it works. Pat

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Originally Posted by nicks creative stuff

No need for a regulator with this set up. The button is a safety device and stays pressed in and the gas will flow. it will only pop out and cut off the supply if it detects a sudden change in gas pressure like when you disconnect the bottle. After reconnecting a bottle simply push it back in again and away you go … Nick

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I don't think I was logged in when I replied to you.
The button is in at the moment and no gas. I can't undo the hose thingy as I haven't got the strength in my hands now (I'm 76) and haven't got a man to do it for me.. However I have got a nice strong neighbour who offered to undo it for me after work tomorrow. Just hope it works opposite to what you said !!!!!!! Pat

Sorry that you’re struggling with your kit Pat, if you’ve had it working I’m sure it should run again. Try this sequence once more … connect a large flame nozzle to your hand piece (it may take time for air to bleed out of a small nozzle) … make sure the tap on the hand piece is turned off … have the valve on the end of the hose connected to your bottle … turn the bottle on … push the button in … now turn on the tap on your handpiece and ignite … hopefully… N

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Originally Posted by nicks creative stuff

Sorry that you’re struggling with your kit Pat, if you’ve had it working I’m sure it should run again. Try this sequence once more … connect a large flame nozzle to your hand piece (it may take time for air to bleed out of a small nozzle) … make sure the tap on the hand piece is turned off … have the valve on the end of the hose connected to your bottle … turn the bottle on … push the button in … now turn on the tap on your handpiece and ignite … hopefully… N

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The button is IÑ. NO GAS.

Is the bottle definitely turned on … anticlockwise … N

Do you have the smallest nozzle attached? … try the button again, is it pushed all the way in and holding in that position?

Is the tap on the bottle easy to turn on and off? try it a few times then make sure it’s on.

I have tried all the combinations. The bottle is on, without the hose thingy on the bottle, the gas comes out fast. As soon as the hose with the thingy on the gas doesn't come out. When I brought the bottle home the gas came on, but I couldn't get the hose onto the thingy (regulator thing) so I took it back to the Flogas man who put it on for me.. He tried it and it worked. I took it out of the car, struggled to take it upstairs to my spare bedroom where my workroom is, when I put it on there was no hissing, no gas coming through, so I took it back to Flogas, he couldn't get it to work either and it wasnt until we had taken it all apart again and we got on hands and knees that we noticed the button was there. Suppose when we took it apart the button must have reset itself and me struggling upstairs must have pressed it in. It is still in and I can't get it out. Next step is neighbour coming in tomorrow. Big strong man.

Sorry Pat, I think the button should only come out on its own and close the gas supply off when the valve is disconnected from the bottle or a problem such as a leak or a damaged hose. when you have everything set up and turned on the last thing to do is push the button in, turn your torch on and ignite. Maybe you have a faulty “hose failure valve” that is sticking closed … Some buttons may be stiff to push in, i had to use one at work that was really hard to push in and reset … N

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Originally Posted by nicks creative stuff

Sorry Pat, I think the button should only come out on its own and close the gas supply off when the valve is disconnected from the bottle or a problem such as a leak or a damaged hose. when you have everything set up and turned on the last thing to do is push the button in, turn your torch on and ignite. Maybe you have a faulty “hose failure valve” that is sticking closed … Some buttons may be stiff to push in, i had to use one at work that was really hard to push in and reset … N

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I don't know if it's faulty but I got it from Cooksons last week. I will take everything apart tomorrow evening when my neighbour disconnects it. Watch this space and thank you for your help. I will tell you what happens. Pat.

Good luck with it Pat I hope you get it sorted … Nick

Hi I got the button sorted out but I have another problem, a while ago I ordered a Sievert Beginners torch which has a 17mm and a 22mm burner as I want to solder jumping I ordered the mini one which is about 1cm across the same size as my old broken one,
(the 17mm one is like a flame thrower) I rang Cooksons to ask why the Sievert mini one doesn't fit the handset, she didn't know, apparently the tech phone number isn't manned, so spent 10mins waiting for someone to answer then got cut off. Is there a jinx on me, it seems a bit like it. All I want is a gas torch that works, so far paid approx £130 on a pile of sh...t. I went for the sievert as I thought everything would be of good quality and easy for me to interchange the nozzles. WRONG !!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by nicks creative stuff

I think you have what is called a hose failure valve rather than a regulator. The little button will pop out if it detects any sudden change of pressure like a damaged hose. Small to large interchangeable nozzles have a tiny jet in them that controls the gas flow. If you change a nozzle without turning the gas off this may also cause the button to pop out. As well as removing the valve from the bottle will activate the button … N

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Sorry Pat only just saw this. I have no idea as mine is ancient and has none of those things! I only use the middle nozzle/ burner. The wee one is still in its box and I only use the big one for cuffs as it’s quite scary!

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Originally Posted by CJ57

Sorry Pat only just saw this. I have no idea as mine is ancient and has none of those things! I only use the middle nozzle/ burner. The wee one is still in its box and I only use the big one for cuffs as it’s quite scary!

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Tried the nozzles on the gas setup and it was good I took it out in the garden as it caught fire, turned the bottle of gas off and had to chuck water on it to put out the flames.
I would be interested to know what other people use to solder their items with. Answers needed, as I have spent over £130 so far.
Pat

I use a Smiths Little torch, although I use LPG for annealing etc. from the trouble you have had the equipment is faulty somewhere along the line, catching fire is 100% caused by a gas leak, when connected check all your joint/s fittings with soapy water bubbles will form at the site of any leak.

I think most burners for the Sievert torch undo at the very end of the neck tube and there’s a lot of different size burners that fit and do this. However if you want to use the smallest burner possible called a needle flame you also have to change the neck tube for a one that is a lot smaller. when buying from Cooksongold it should come as two parts assembled as one the tiny burner will be attached to the new smaller neck tube … so hopefully disconnect your large nozzle … disconnect the large neck tube … replace with small neck tube and needle flame burn attached … Hope this makes sense. N

Hello again, I have got it sorted at last, I had to ditch the end with the black button as it wasn't a regulator, bought a regulator and it works OK. Having issues with the small
8mm ? burner, it seems to either not solder or melt. Got propane instead of butane, is there a difference.

Hi Pat, if I’m right I think Sievert torches are designed to run on propane. I have the 8mm needle flame burner for my torch running on a hose failure valve with a button.
I find it quite fierce for small jobs, the flame in total is about 6 inches long when measured in low light. A commonly used set pressure propane regulator runs at 37 millibars which I think is not enough for a Sievert torch which needs 2 to 4 bar of pressure. This is a picture of the set up I have https://www.tradecounterdirect.com/m...age-type=image … the torch, burner, hose, and bottle connector (hose failure valve) comes preassembled and ready to plug and go … N

I had a Bullfinch handset with a butane cylinder and had no problems. The Sievert has caused problems since I bought it. The regulator is 2 bar. The setup with the hose that I got from cookies was the same as your photo, the one that caught fire !!!!! The regulator has slowed the gas supply so at least the flame isn't like a flame thrower. I've got the needle flame burner, but wondered if I should go back to the 17 burner that came with the hose. I also had a 22 that came with it, but bought the needle flame as I thought it would be a less fierce flame.

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Originally Posted by Patstone

I had a Bullfinch handset with a butane cylinder and had no problems. The Sievert has caused problems since I bought it. The regulator is 2 bar. The setup with the hose that I got from cookies was the same as your photo, the one that caught fire !!!!! The regulator has slowed the gas supply so at least the flame isn't like a flame thrower. I've got the needle flame burner, but wondered if I should go back to the 17 burner that came with the hose. I also had a 22 that came with it, but bought the needle flame as I thought it would be a less fierce flame.

Sent from my SM-T720 using Tapatalk

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The numbers are different now but I think there are still only 3 burners. The smallest I think is little better than a cooks torch and has been in its box for 40 years. The large one is fierce and I’ve only ever used it for cuffs. I use the medium for everything else I’ve ever made

When you say caught fire … that sounds like a leak. I have lots of connections on one bottle so whenever I change something I use a commercial gas leak detection spray called LD-90 great stuff, easy and convenient to use regularly. Maybe that was your problem with the hose failure valve bottle connector. Once you have your torch up and running properly with a bit of practice you’ll soon know which burner suits a particular size of job. Being quick and easy to change having a few different size burner options is a great advantage.
I would still tentatively suggest your torch would run best on the hose failure valve that it came with. This is the set up I have with 4 interchangeable burners from the small pin flame burner that is adjustable from a tiny flame to a 6 inch fierce flame. The largest burner I have that connects to this setup is a 2941p that consumes 600 g/h. I use it for annealing large pieces of copper. Here’s hoping you get it sorted … N

Well I have put the medium one 8mm I think on, the small one is too intense. It now works fine, took off the one that came with the cookies hose because that was just a hose stop, if its leaking from the hose I believe but apparently it is NOT a regulator.

Good to hear you’re up and running … have fun with it … Nick

The only thing I would say is that the handset is a bit heavier than I am used to, the Bullfinch one is quite a lot lighter, but apart from that it works well.
Just booked on a refresher course at Exeter College only a nine week, one evening a week job, but it gets me out meeting people that are interested in doing the same thing.